Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rumored to have Jewish past

[naomiglover]

I am not sure how to react to this news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ewish-past.html

"The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior. "

Edited October 8, 2009 by naomiglover

[Sir Bandelot]

I am not sure how to react to this news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ewish-past.html

"The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior. "

Then why do you post it?

[naomiglover]

Then why do you post it?

Because it's an interesting piece of news.

Don't you think that it's interesting that a man with such a large international spotlight on him, who is perceived to be an anti-Jew by many, is actually a Jew himself?

[GostHacked]

It is a very interesting peice of news. So Mahmoud seems to be a self hating jew!!!.

[Sir Bandelot]

Don't you think that it's interesting that a man with such a large international spotlight on him, who is perceived to be an anti-Jew by many, is actually a Jew himself?

No. I've known for some time that Ahmadinejad does not hate Jews. Jews are tolerated in Iranian society, their rights are protected by law. Whats interesting is how easily we are manipulated by inflammatory media releases.

[Rue]

I am not sure how to react to this news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ewish-past.html

"The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior. "

Do your homework again. The fact the name is reserved for Jews does not mean it is a Jewish name or restricted to the use of Jews. It is used in Turkey, Armenia and in Iran, Pakistan by Muslims, Bahaiis, Christians, Zoroastreans.

The rumour started because the family of Ahmedinejad said he changed his name. Then people like you jump to conclusions the name is only used by Jews. It is in fact not restricted to Jews and never was.

And you are wrong as to its meaning. Absolutely dead wrong. It is a common word for carpet weaver or a person who sews designs it is not a name that only refers to sewing Jeiwsh tallit. Absolute nonsense.

[Rue]

No. I've known for some time that Ahmadinejad does not hate Jews. Jews are tolerated in Iranian society, their rights are protected by law. Whats interesting is how easily we are manipulated by inflammatory media releases.

Oh you do, do you. You know do you. Why because you live in Iran? Because you know what it is like to be a Jew in Iran?

You know nothing of what it is like to be a non shiite Muslim in Iran.

You are a classic case of someone who knows nothing and pretends to be an authority on something

he knows nothing about.

What is interesting is how someone plants a false story about Ahmadinejad being a Jew and its picked up

on and repeated by people who do not do their homework and do not check to see what they are writing

is accurate and just assume because they read it somewhere it must be true.

What is interesting is how you are such an expert on the situation of non Shiite Muslims in Iran.

For that matter it is interesting you know how wonderful and tolerant Iranian society is to even its

Shiite Muslims that are not fundamentalists, or its students, progressives, trade unionists.

Another arm chair genius makes his pronouncements from his basement tens of thousands of miles way from reality.

[Rue]

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianameric...rans_elections/

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianameric...out_irans_jews/

Above is commentary from someone unlike Sir Bandelot who is in a position to comment.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Rue

[Guest American Woman]

I am not sure how to react to this news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ewish-past.html

"The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior. "

Ahmadinejad has no Jewish roots

Rumours that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's family converted to Islam from Judaism are false. In fact, they are proud Shias

[Rue]

These papers deal with the current situation of Jews in Iran.

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/PDF/IranLevin.pdf

http://www.yale.edu/yiisa/yale_anti-semitism_Lecture_555[2].doc

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/07/irans-je...-mans-land.html

[Rue]

The article American women provided states:

Professor David Yeroshalmi, author of The Jews of Iran in the 19th century and an expert on Iranian...

... "There is no such meaning for the word 'sabour' in any of the Persian Jewish dialects, nor does it mean Jewish prayer shawl in Persian. Also, the name Sabourjian is not a well-known Jewish name,".......In fact, Iranian Jews use the Hebrew word "tzitzit" to describe the Jewish prayer shawl. Yeroshalmi, a scholar at Tel Aviv University's Center for Iranian Studies, also went on to dispute the article's findings that the "-jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews. "This ending is in no way sufficient to judge whether someone has a Jewish background. Many Muslim surnames have the same ending," he stated.

Upon closer inspection, a completely different interpretation of "Sabourjian" emerges. According to Robert Tait, a Guardian correspondent who travelled to Ahmadinejad's native village in 2005, the name "derives from thread painter – sabor in Farsi – a once common and humble occupation in the carpet industry in Semnan province, where Aradan is situated". This is confirmed by Kasra Naji, who also wrote a biography of Ahmadinejad and met his family in his native village. Carpet weaving or colouring carpet threads are not professions associated with Jews in Iran.

According to both Naji and Tait, Ahmadinejad's father Ahmad was in fact a religious Shia, who taught the Quran before and after Ahmadinejad's birth and their move to Tehran. So religious was Ahmad Sabourjian that he bought a house near a Hosseinieh, a religious club that he frequented during the holy month of Moharram to mourn the martyrdom of Imam Hossein.

Moreover, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mother is a Seyyede. This is a title given to women whose family are believed to be direct bloodline descendants of Prophet Muhammad. Male members are given the title of Seyyed, and include prominent figures such as Iran's supreme leader Ali Khamenei. In Judaism, this is equivalent to the Cohens, who are direct descendants of Aaron, the brother of Moses. One has to be born into a Seyyed family: the title is never given to Muslims by birth, let alone converts. This makes it impossible for Ahmadinejad's mother to have been a Jew. In fact, she was so proud of her lineage that everyone in her native village of Aradan referred to her by her Islamic title, Seyyede.

The reason that Ahmadinejad's father changed his surname has more to do with the class struggle in Iran. When it became mandatory to adopt surnames, many people from rural areas chose names that represented their professions or that of their ancestors. This made them easily identifiable as townfolk. In many cases they changed their surnames upon moving to Tehran, in order to avoid snobbery and discrimination from residents of the capital."

The Sabourjians were one of many such families. Their surname was related to carpet-making, an industry that conjures up images of sweatshops. They changed it to Ahmadinejad in order to help them fit in. The new name was also chosen because it means from the race of Ahmad, one of the names given to Muhammad.

According to Ahmadinejad's relatives the new name emphasised the family's piety and their dedication to their religion and its founder. This is something that the president and his relatives in Tehran and Aradan have maintained to the present day. Not because they are trying to deny their past, but because they are proud of it.

[Rue]

The article American women provided states:

Professor David Yeroshalmi, author of The Jews of Iran in the 19th century and an expert on Iranian...

... "There is no such meaning for the word 'sabour' in any of the Persian Jewish dialects, nor does it mean Jewish prayer shawl in Persian. Also, the name Sabourjian is not a well-known Jewish name,".......In fact, Iranian Jews use the Hebrew word "tzitzit" to describe the Jewish prayer shawl. Yeroshalmi, a scholar at Tel Aviv University's Center for Iranian Studies, also went on to dispute the article's findings that the "-jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews. "This ending is in no way sufficient to judge whether someone has a Jewish background. Many Muslim surnames have the same ending," he stated.

Upon closer inspection, a completely different interpretation of "Sabourjian" emerges. According to Robert Tait, a Guardian correspondent who travelled to Ahmadinejad's native village in 2005, the name "derives from thread painter – sabor in Farsi – a once common and humble occupation in the carpet industry in Semnan province, where Aradan is situated". This is confirmed by Kasra Naji, who also wrote a biography of Ahmadinejad and met his family in his native village. Carpet weaving or colouring carpet threads are not professions associated with Jews in Iran.

According to both Naji and Tait, Ahmadinejad's father Ahmad was in fact a religious Shia, who taught the Quran before and after Ahmadinejad's birth and their move to Tehran. So religious was Ahmad Sabourjian that he bought a house near a Hosseinieh, a religious club that he frequented during the holy month of Moharram to mourn the martyrdom of Imam Hossein.

Moreover, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mother is a Seyyede. This is a title given to women whose family are believed to be direct bloodline descendants of Prophet Muhammad. Male members are given the title of Seyyed, and include prominent figures such as Iran's supreme leader Ali Khamenei. In Judaism, this is equivalent to the Cohens, who are direct descendants of Aaron, the brother of Moses. One has to be born into a Seyyed family: the title is never given to Muslims by birth, let alone converts. This makes it impossible for Ahmadinejad's mother to have been a Jew. In fact, she was so proud of her lineage that everyone in her native village of Aradan referred to her by her Islamic title, Seyyede.

The reason that Ahmadinejad's father changed his surname has more to do with the class struggle in Iran. When it became mandatory to adopt surnames, many people from rural areas chose names that represented their professions or that of their ancestors. This made them easily identifiable as townfolk. In many cases they changed their surnames upon moving to Tehran, in order to avoid snobbery and discrimination from residents of the capital."

The Sabourjians were one of many such families. Their surname was related to carpet-making, an industry that conjures up images of sweatshops. They changed it to Ahmadinejad in order to help them fit in. The new name was also chosen because it means from the race of Ahmad, one of the names given to Muhammad.

According to Ahmadinejad's relatives the new name emphasised the family's piety and their dedication to their religion and its founder. This is something that the president and his relatives in Tehran and Aradan have maintained to the present day. Not because they are trying to deny their past, but because they are proud of it.

[naomiglover]

Oh you do, do you. You know do you. Why because you live in Iran? Because you know what it is like to be a Jew in Iran?

You know nothing of what it is like to be a non shiite Muslim in Iran.

You are a classic case of someone who knows nothing and pretends to be an authority on something

he knows nothing about.

What is interesting is how someone plants a false story about Ahmadinejad being a Jew and its picked up

on and repeated by people who do not do their homework and do not check to see what they are writing

is accurate and just assume because they read it somewhere it must be true.

What is interesting is how you are such an expert on the situation of non Shiite Muslims in Iran.

For that matter it is interesting you know how wonderful and tolerant Iranian society is to even its

Shiite Muslims that are not fundamentalists, or its students, progressives, trade unionists.

Another arm chair genius makes his pronouncements from his basement tens of thousands of miles way from reality.

Unless you are an Iranian Jew, as according to your own words, you have as much credibility as the person you are accusing not to have any credibility.

[naomiglover]

I'm sure like many, I don't read an article and conclude that it's 100% accurate. I just found the information to be interesting, so I posted it.

Here is something I read in The Jerusalem Post not too long ago. Maybe Rue will find this article to be more credible:

Iran Jews in Israel prefer Ahmadinejad

Despite unrest and violence following last month's presidential elections in Iran, some Jewish Iranians living in Israel and abroad say life in the Islamic republic is better under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad than it would be under challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi.

At a conference of Iranian Jews in Jerusalem on Monday, leaders of the Mashadi Jewish community said that despite Ahmadinejad's blustery rhetoric against Israel, Iran is a safe place for Jews to practice their religion.

During the 1979 Islamic Revolution, many Mashadi Jews fled to the United States, primarily New York City - where some 6,000 Jews with ties to Mashad now live. There are almost no Jews in Mashad today, though an estimated 25,000 still live in Iran, concentrated in Teheran.

"They've found it very safe and pleasant, no problems," said Bahman Kamali, founder of the federation. "Actually, the regime during [the time of reformist president Mohammad] Khatami and the regime now have been very good with Jewish people. There has not been any problem."

Kamali said Ahmadinejad's calls for the destruction of Israel were not the same as condemnation or encouragement of violence against Jews in the Diaspora.

"There's a distinction between the two because Iranians, they respect the religions that have books, Christianity, Judaism," Kamali said. "They respect people freely going to the synagogues and praying there without any problems."

He doesn't think the Jewish community in Iran will face persecution stemming from political unrest following the disputed elections.

"I'm not concerned about that," said Kamali, who downplayed the political involvement of his group. "The purpose of this conference is not political. It's only our heritage, that we are proud of to be from Mashad, Iran, and we would like to preserve that."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

[Guest American Woman]

I'm sure like many, I don't read an article and conclude that it's 100% accurate. I just found the information to be interesting, so I posted it.

You also posted this: Don't you think that it's interesting that a man with such a large international spotlight on him, who is perceived to be an anti-Jew by many, is actually a Jew himself?

You said that he is "actually a Jew himself," so you evidently concluded that that was accurate, while evidently it's not.

[naomiglover]

You also posted this: Don't you think that it's interesting that a man with such a large international spotlight on him, who is perceived to be an anti-Jew by many, is actually a Jew himself?

You said that he is "actually a Jew himself," so you evidently concluded that that was accurate, while evidently it's not.

Then I made a mistake in the way I worded my statement.

Neither articles have confirmed that he is or he is not Jewish.

[DogOnPorch]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past...

How Conveeeenient.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman: You also posted this: Don't you think that it's interesting that a man with such a large international spotlight on him, who is perceived to be an anti-Jew by many, is actually a Jew himself?

You said that he is "actually a Jew himself," so you evidently concluded that that was accurate, while evidently it's not.

Then I made a mistake in the way I worded my statement.

Neither articles have confirmed that he is or he is not Jewish.

You can't be serious. Someone drums up the idea that he's got Jewish roots based solely on information that is debunked, and you say that doesn't "confirm" that he's not Jewish?

[Sir Bandelot]

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianameric...rans_elections/

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianameric...out_irans_jews/

Above is commentary from someone unlike Sir Bandelot who is in a position to comment.

Relax, I didn't mean to get your knickers in a bunch.

But I won't bother to respond with some links of my own. They would probably be "from Iran" so they are the words of our enemies, and therefore must be all lies.

Your propaganda, my propaganda... where does it all end?

Edited October 6, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Sir Bandelot]

I'm sure like many, I don't read an article and conclude that it's 100% accurate. I just found the information to be interesting, so I posted it.

Here is something I read in The Jerusalem Post not too long ago. Maybe Rue will find this article to be more credible:

Iran Jews in Israel prefer Ahmadinejad

At a conference of Iranian Jews in Jerusalem on Monday, leaders of the Mashadi Jewish community said that despite Ahmadinejad's blustery rhetoric against Israel, Iran is a safe place for Jews to practice their religion.

Good one, I've read that before. I've also read, that in Iran the rights of Jews goes beyond even what many western countries have established in their legal system. The rights of Jews to worship in their synagogues in Iran is protected by LAW. In addition they are entitled by LAW to have at least one representative of the Jewish clerical leadership seated in the government. For this the Jews are allowed to select their own representation, by democratic election.

Rue is allowed to search for it on the web,

and get educated

[naomiglover]

You can't be serious. Someone drums up the idea that he's got Jewish roots based solely on information that is debunked, and you say that doesn't "confirm" that he's not Jewish?

Unlike you, I haven't done a full research into Ahmadinejad and his family's past and I haven't taken DNA samples to confirm that he is or he is not Jewish. So unlike you, I cannot confirm 100% that he is or he is not.

There are many Persian Jews living in and outside of Iran. Why would it be so unbelievable that he could be Jewish?

[Guest American Woman]

Unlike you, I haven't done a full research into Ahmadinejad and his family's past and I haven't taken DNA samples to confirm that he is or he is not Jewish. So unlike you, I cannot confirm 100% that he is or he is not.

So I guess Hitler was possibly Jewish, too. And perhaps bin Laden is. I guess anyone and everyone is possibly Jewish. So perhaps we should all start threads "revealing" the "possibility." Unless, of course, your have taken DNA samples to confirm otherwise.

Edited October 6, 2009 by American Woman

[naomiglover]

So I guess Hitler was possibly Jewish, too. And perhaps bin Laden is. I guess anyone and everyone is possibly Jewish. So perhaps we should all start threads "revealing" the "possibility." Unless, of course, your have taken DNA samples to confirm otherwise.

After reading the article a few days ago and before the article in The Guardian was posted claiming that he is not Jewish, I came across several other articles from the Middle East that have repeated the rumor about Ahmadinejad's past. The rumor has been circulating in the Middle East have in the past year and it doesn't seem to be a small story. It was even a topic of discussion during the elections in Iran.

The Guardian article put forward a good argument, but it doesn't confirm that he is not Jewish. From what I have read, it's not uncommon to change last names in Iran and quite a few people with different religious and ethnic backgrounds have done this.

[Guest American Woman]

After reading the article a few days ago and before the article in The Guardian was posted claiming that he is not Jewish, I came across several other articles from the Middle East that have repeated the rumor about Ahmadinejad's past. The rumor has been circulating in the Middle East have in the past year and it doesn't seem to be a small story. It was even a topic of discussion during the elections in Iran.

The rumor of Obama not being an American citizen has been a circulating for some time, too, and it wasn't a small story. It was even a topic of discussion during the elections in the U.S. However, that doesn't mean there's any credibility to it.

The Guardian article put forward a good argument, but it doesn't confirm that he is not Jewish. From what I have read, it's not uncommon to change last names in Iran and quite a few people with different religious and ethnic backgrounds have done this.

No, it's not uncommon, as The Guardian explained. NO one is disputing that. The Guardian even explained what his family name used to be, what it meant, and why it was changed. It debunked the claim that it was a Jewish name as presented in the rumor.

One has to use critical thinking when coming across such rumors, especially when they've been soundly debunked; but if you prefer to give credibility to every rumor out there, go for it. As for myself, I'll continue to weigh the evidence and come to an educated conclusion.

Out of curiosity, do you have doubts regarding Obama's American citizenship?

[kimmy]

Dear god this is painful to read. Painful, or painfully funny, I'm not sure which.

I'm most fascinated to hear how a DNA sample could confirm if Makmood is Jewish. Good grief, that's hilarious. Did the human genome project map a gene for Klezmer while I was at work, or something?

The Guardian story with detailed information about Amajinabinabad's parents sounds pretty credible, far more so than some goofball theory based on a false interpretation of his former surname.

And, does it matter? Even if his parents were Jewish, he's still going around denying the Holocaust and proclaiming Israel will be "wiped from the pages of history".

Btw, yes, Islamic law and tradition does indeed provide some specific legal protection for Jews and Christians. "People of the Book". That still doesn't necessarily mean it would be much fun to be a Jew or Christian in a Muslim country.

-k