Liberal tiff in Outremont

[capricorn]

Maybe Dion just plans to retire.

Dion said he will run again which thwarts Coderre's plans. What is odd is that the sitting women MPs and the others asked to step aside won handily in the last election.

Selon les informations recueillies par Le Devoir, quatre députés libéraux du Québec se font demander par M. Coderre de quitter la politique et de laisser leur siège confortable à un autre candidat-vedette. On retrouve au premier rang l'ancien chef Stéphane Dion (Saint-Laurent-Cartierville, gagné par 18 069 voix de majorité en 2008), Bernard Patry (Pierrefonds-Dollars, 9653 voix), Raymonde Folco (Laval-Les îles, 9027 voix) et Lise Zarac (LaSalle-Émard, 6842 voix).

http://www.ledevoir.com/2009/09/22/268085.html

Yes this is one to watch.

[punked]

This story only gets worse for Iggy in Qu

The fierce squabble over Martin Cauchon's political comeback is symptomatic of a party that has lost sight of the most basic tenets of democracy, says a former national director of the Liberal party.

"We've turned into one big appointment society," Sheila Gervais told The Canadian Press.

"It's a perfect democratic deficit storm."

The storm has been gathering for more than 25 years but reached its peak this week with Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's decision to appoint a woman in the prized Montreal riding of Outremont.

The decision thwarted Cauchon's hopes to run again in the riding he represented for 11 years until his retirement from politics in 2004. And it sparked a backlash among rank-and-file Liberals.

Ignatieff confirmed Thursday he's now "in discussions with Mr. Cauchon to make sure he can rejoin our team." His Quebec lieutenant, Denis Coderre, later disclosed that the former cabinet minister is being offered another Montreal riding, Jeanne-Le Ber -- an offer insiders say Cauchon is unlikely to accept.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...924?hub=QPeriod

Who is Iggy to just "offer" riddings this happened in the NDP there would be an up roar.

[Wild Bill]

This story only gets worse for Iggy in Qu

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...924?hub=QPeriod

Who is Iggy to just "offer" riddings this happened in the NDP there would be an up roar.

This was another Reform plank. In every riding candidates had to win the nomination from the riding membership.

The idea was that the riding people picked their own candidate, rather than the party imposing a choice on them. In a few cases the chosen candidate turned out to have some skeletons in his closet and the party HQ had to turf him but that was after the fact. As much as was possible, the people picked their own representatives.

I guess this was just to radical an idea to become accepted in the other parties. Myself, I just can't accept anything else as truly democratic.

[capricorn]

This story only gets worse for Iggy in Qu

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...924?hub=QPeriod

Who is Iggy to just "offer" riddings this happened in the NDP there would be an up roar.

This reported a few hours ago.

Martin Cauchon aurait décliné une offre du parti libéral de se présenter dans le comté Jeanne-Leber aux prochaines élections selon ce que rapporte LCN.

Martin Cauchon souhaitait faire un retour en politique fédérale dans le comté d'Outremont, ce qui lui a été refusé par Denis Coderre.

http://www.rockdetente.com/montreal/actual...auchon-dit-non/

Roughly translated, the news item reports "Cauchon has declined the riding of Jeanne-Leber. He hoped to return to politics in Outremont, a move that was refused by Denis Coderre".

Cauchon has thrown the ball right back into Ignatieff's court. In the meantime, more prominent Quebec Liberals are going public.

In interviews with CBC News, several Liberal MPs went public with their views about the party's decision to reserve the Liberal nomination in the Montreal riding of Outremont for business executive Nathalie Le Prohon.

"For me, the best candidate to win should get the riding," Quebec MP Bernard Patry said. "Mr. Cauchon knows the riding, I have no clue if Madame Le Prohon knows the riding."

Quebec MP Alexandra Mendes noted: "Mr. Cauchon has proven his mettle. He has nothing to prove. The party should make Mr. Cauchon very welcome and give him whatever chance he needs to help us form the government."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/20...emont-0924.html

This thing ain't over yet.

[jdobbin]

This thing ain't over yet.

It might not be. Cauchon and Ignatieff are in talks.

[August1991]

It might not be. Cauchon and Ignatieff are in talks.

In the Social Studies room? Or are they meeting in the school cafeteria?

This tiff/debate/argument has the grandeur of high school student politics. Different clowns, same circus? No. It has now turned into all clowns, all circus.

----

The federal Liberal Party needs a long time out of power. It has to rethink what it is. (Trudeau Junior is not a solution although knowing Liberals, they may foolishly appeal to him and he may just as foolishly agree.)

The Liberals have always been the party of quick fixes, whatever works - but they applied this raw pragmatism with some very basic principles. Since Trudeau Senior, the Liberals have had no principles at all.

So, here's an idea for Liberals. Maybe Trudeau Senior did this deliberately. He planted the seeds of the Liberal Party's demise.

[jdobbin]

In the Social Studies room? Or are they meeting in the school cafeteria?

Maybe it is in your neighbourhood bar.

This tiff/debate/argument has the grandeur of high school student politics. Different clowns, same circus? No. It has now turned into all clowns, all circus.

My feeling is that people are positioning themselves for cabinet for a future leadership race.

Ignatieff needs to step in an ensure this is settled quickly.

The federal Liberal Party needs a long time out of power. It has to rethink what it is. (Trudeau Junior is not a solution although knowing Liberals, they may foolishly appeal to him and he may just as foolishly agree.)

You say this every time. I don't believe it to be honest. My feeling is that like Harper you would like to see an end to the Liberals. Correct?

[August1991]

You say this every time. I don't believe it to be honest. My feeling is that like Harper you would like to see an end to the Liberals. Correct?

I think Harper simply wants to be PM with a majority government.

----

End of the Liberals?

The Liberal Party has been, since before Confederation, a unifying institution in Canada. Both Catholics and Protestants, French and English felt comfortable as Liberals.

I am certain that this ideal will continue but technology has changed, and we now live in the 21st century.

Maybe it is in your neighbourhood bar.

I don't live in Outremont. Edited September 25, 2009 by August1991

[jdobbin]

I think Harper simply wants to be PM with a majority government.

But that is not what his former top adviser says his ultimate goal is.

End of the Liberals?

The Liberal Party has been, since before Confederation, a unifying institution in Canada. Both Catholics and Protestants, French and English felt comfortable as Liberals.

I am certain that this ideal will continue but technology has changed, and we now live in the 21st century.

There are some that believe that the the party should not exist anymore. Period.

I don't live in Outremont.

Does Cauchon?

[Wild Bill]

But that is not what his former top adviser says his ultimate goal is.

And are Flanagan's words on stone tablets handed down from Mt. Sinai?

He expressed his opinion, jdobbin! A better informed opinion than most of us but an opinion nonetheless.

Still, it heartens me to see how quickly you totally accept the views of a founder of the old Reform Party as Gospel, jdobbin! If you can do this with Tom Flanagan you can do this with others. Who knows how far this will take you?

There's hope!

[jdobbin]

And are Flanagan's words on stone tablets handed down from Mt. Sinai?

No, Parliament Hill.

He expressed his opinion, jdobbin! A better informed opinion than most of us but an opinion nonetheless.

And one that we have seen it demonstrated a few times much to the detriment of Harper's government. Often, he's rather attack than govern.

Still, it heartens me to see how quickly you totally accept the views of a founder of the old Reform Party as Gospel, jdobbin! If you can do this with Tom Flanagan you can do this with others. Who knows how far this will take you?

There's hope!

Think I've already said we have seen the behaviour of Harper in this regard demonstrated. He'd rather kick you in the balls than stick to the work of running a government.

[jdobbin]

It was obvious this one was going to be settled soon. It was becoming a distraction and there was pushback from many Liberals who respected Cauchon from his cabinet days.

Ignatieff probably waited too long to step is as did Cauchon to announce he was interested.

Realistically, Cauchon has the best chance of winning the seat back. Nathalie Le Prohon will get to run in Jeanne-Le Ber which had been held by Liza Frulla. It has been a very close riding and one the Liberal can win back from the BQ.

If this has taught Ignatieff anything it is that the Quebec Liberal file has to be monitored more closely.

The NDP's Mulcair should be worried. Cauchon will not be a pushover. Name recognition and his own organization will make the riding very competitive.

[punked]

It was obvious this one was going to be settled soon. It was becoming a distraction and there was pushback from many Liberals who respected Cauchon from his cabinet days.

Ignatieff probably waited too long to step is as did Cauchon to announce he was interested.

Realistically, Cauchon has the best chance of winning the seat back. Nathalie Le Prohon will get to run in Jeanne-Le Ber which had been held by Liza Frulla. It has been a very close riding and one the Liberal can win back from the BQ.

If this has taught Ignatieff anything it is that the Quebec Liberal file has to be monitored more closely.

The NDP's Mulcair should be worried. Cauchon will not be a pushover. Name recognition and his own organization will make the riding very competitive.

FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP. Iggy can't even run his own party let alone the country. No thank you.

[M.Dancer]

Cauchon will not be a pushover. Name recognition and his own organization will make the riding very competitive.

Would the halal and kosher communities vote for that kind of name recognition coming from a party known for it's pork barrel??

[DrGreenthumb]

FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP. Iggy can't even run his own party let alone the country. No thank you.

Flip FLOP Flip FLOP We have no confidence in Harper, all of a sudden we do. Name that voice.

I hope Cauchon DOES win the riding. Cauchon is a man of principle. One of my favorite Liberal MP's EVER.

[punked]

Flip FLOP Flip FLOP We have no confidence in Harper, all of a sudden we do. Name that voice.

I hope Cauchon DOES win the riding. Cauchon is a man of principle. One of my favorite Liberal MP's EVER.

No one has confidence in Harper however considering he is sitting at a Majority win with his Ontario numbers getting right now getting something on EI is better then what we will get after the Liberals hand him a majority. I think you need to step outside the action for a minute and wait for the Liberals to introduce their platform which I hear is going to be tough on crime. So before you jump on that bandwagon Greenthumb just play the waiting game burning down the big tent in favour an even bigger one might be something you regret. Iggy is not the saviour you think he is. Considering they aren't staling it in the Senate and being weak on crime doesn't poll well I think you are lining up with the wrong team here.

Edited September 27, 2009 by punked

[August1991]

It was obvious this one was going to be settled soon. It was becoming a distraction and there was pushback from many Liberals who respected Cauchon from his cabinet days.

Ignatieff probably waited too long to step is as did Cauchon to announce he was interested.

Settled?

How is Coderre going to respond to this "settlement"? Denis Coderre is not the sort of guy to go quietly into the night. Maybe he'll do as Lapierre but I somehow doubt it.

As the Chinese say, Coderre has lost alot of face.

[jdobbin]

Settled?

How is Coderre going to respond to this "settlement"? Denis Coderre is not the sort of guy to go quietly into the night. Maybe he'll do as Lapierre but I somehow doubt it.

How do you think he is going to respond?

As the Chinese say, Coderre has lost alot of face.

And you think this is going to result in Coderre doing what?

[August1991]

How do you think he is going to respond?

....

And you think this is going to result in Coderre doing what?

Dunno.

I'm just surprised that news reports and Liberal spin seem to imply that this is "settled" - without explaining what happens to Coderre. Ignatieff's decision has made Coderre lose alot of face. So, what next? Has Ignatieff thought this through?

[jdobbin]

Dunno.

I'm just surprised that news reports and Liberal spin seem to imply that this is "settled" - without explaining what happens to Coderre. Ignatieff's decision has made Coderre lose alot of face. So, what next? Has Ignatieff thought this through?

I'm sure Ignatieff has thought this through. There can only be one leader and they have to step in if there is a dispute. Ignatieff probably should have intervened earlier but my impression is that the long time it took for Cauchon to make the decision to run made Ignatieff pause given that he promised to bring more women in as candidates.

I suppose Coderre could resign. He could step down as Quebec lieutenant. He could join the BQ or NDP. He could take a job on a talk show in Quebec. He could announce his intention of seeking the Liberals leadership.

The one thing he can't do is be leader at this very moment. He has to show that that he is loyal or his future in the party for the time being is going to be short.

This all presupposes that Coderre has actually lost face. In politics, you had better have a thick skin or you won't last.

It is possible that he was operating under Ignatieff's instructions all along. Did you give that any consideration?

Edited September 27, 2009 by jdobbin

[August1991]

I'm sure Ignatieff has thought this through.

I disagree. I think Ignatieff is making this up as he goes along, à l'improviste.

The one thing he can't do is be leader at this very moment. He has to show that that he is loyal or his future in the party for the time being is going to be short.

This all presupposes that Coderre has actually lost face. In politics, you had better have a thick skin or you won't last.

Coderre has very thick skin. His loyalty to Ignatieff will only last as long as he believes that Ignatieff can win the next election.

Ignatieff plan this? Do you mean that Ignatieff planned to humiliate Coderre publicly? If so, then Ignatieff must have a plan to re-order completely the federal Liberal Party in Quebec. I doubt it. To me, Ignatieff is improvising.

----

Coderre's future? He might do as Lapierre and Dumont but I doubt it. Maybe Harper will name him to the Senate. (Chuckle.)

[jdobbin]

I disagree. I think Ignatieff is making this up as he goes along, à l'improviste.

You mean you think he has made a mistake by letting Cauchon run?

Coderre has very thick skin. His loyalty to Ignatieff will only last as long as he believes that Ignatieff can win the next election.

And Ignatieff will only keep Coderre as chief in Quebec if he doesn't end up hurting the organization. If the controversy lasted much longer, it would have had consequences beyond Quebec.

Ignatieff plan this? Do you mean that Ignatieff planned to humiliate Coderre publicly? If so, then Ignatieff must have a plan to re-order completely the federal Liberal Party in Quebec. I doubt it. To me, Ignatieff is improvising.

Nope. I mean that Ignatieff charged Coderre with cleaning house in Quebec.

Ignatieff stepped in but perhaps Coderre's position was never in peril to begin with. It may have suited Ignatieff to have Coderre acting like a bull in a china shop.

Coderre's future? He might do as Lapierre and Dumont but I doubt it. Maybe Harper will name him to the Senate. (Chuckle.)

Or as a top minister in Harper's government?

Why not? Is there nothing that Harper won't do that he impugned in Opposition?

[August1991]

You mean you think he has made a mistake by letting Cauchon run?

I think Ignatieff was foolish to get involved in this story. He should have seen it coming when he approved Coderre's choice of Le Prohon in Outremont.

As it turns out, she is happy to run in Liberal-winnable Jeanne-Le Ber. This all could have been resolved weeks ago, inprivate, with Coderre saving face.

Ignatieff stepped in but perhaps Coderre's position was never in peril to begin with. It may have suited Ignatieff to have Coderre acting like a bull in a china shop.

Coderre's position?

And what of Cauchon's position?

-----

If Ignatieff has any hope of being PM, he has to win more seats in Quebec because popular support in Quebec will give him the credibility to win seats in Ontario. Call that electoral theory "Quebec Leverage".

I thought that Ignatieff understood internal federal Quebec Liberal politics better.

Edited September 27, 2009 by August1991

[jdobbin]

I think Ignatieff was foolish to get involved in this story. He should have seen it coming when he approved Coderre's choice of Le Prohon in Outremont.

Since that decision was made when it appeared that Cauchon was taking a pass on Outremont, it appeared that the party was trying to make sure they got candidates lines up instead of waiting till a few days before as they had been under Dion.

As it turns out, she is happy to run in Liberal-winnable Jeanne-Le Ber. This all could have been resolved weeks ago, inprivate, with Coderre saving face.

Once again, Cauchon only indicated he was interested in running again when the party indicated that were set to choose someone else. He had been mulling it over for two and half months.

Coderre's position?

And what of Cauchon's position?

His commitment certainly wasn't known until recently. Ignatieff's people had been waiting for an answer for some time after trying to recruit him.

If Ignatieff has any hope of being PM, he has to win more seats in Quebec because popular support in Quebec will give him the credibility to win seats in Ontario. Call that electoral theory "Quebec Leverage".

I thought that Ignatieff understood internal federal Quebec Liberal politics better.

I thought you understood politics better since there is nothing to support your theory that Ontario is moved by who is selected in Quebec as MPs. If that was true, Ontario would elect BQs.

[August1991]

His commitment certainly wasn't known until recently. Ignatieff's people had been waiting for an answer for some time after trying to recruit him.

I don't follow internal federal Liberal Quebec politics but I suspect that many knew Cauchon wanted to retrun in Outremont.

But Cauchon and Ignatieff are not the story here. What of Coderre?

I thought you understood politics better since there is nothing to support your theory that Ontario is moved by who is selected in Quebec as MPs. If that was true, Ontario would elect BQs.

Huh? If polls showed that Ignatieff had 40 seats in Quebec, polls in Ontario would give the Liberals a lead with 45% or more.

Many voters in Ontario will simply choose the federalist with support in Quebec. They want a united Canada. (If Canada didn't exist, Ontario would be Michigan.) I call this the "Quebec Leverage", Trudeau called it "French Power". Others have a different name.

Edited September 27, 2009 by August1991