wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well, that was indeed dumb but it was like, half a century ago!However, playing a PeeWee Herman game of "I know you are but what am I?" won't change anything. I'd be the first to write off all parties as brain dead when it counts. Still, I refer to those two heaps of Liberal and Tory cuts to supporting our soldiers. I'll give you the Arrow and the helicopters to the Dutch. That's a pretty small pile for the Tories, against a Liberal pile as high as a Sea King! C'mon, don't you agree it's pretty lame when we send our soldiers to Afghanistan and all we have is Arctic camo to put them in? And when's the last time anyone ever saw a Liberal government INCREASE the military budget? MacKenzie King? 23 countries still fly the Sea King including the USA and Britian...and luckily for the military I'm not the PM otherwise they'd see some serious budget slashing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well, that's only logical. We don't have much offensive capability!Which leads to the other question, why do we have a Dept of Defence? too keep another 60,000 Canadians off unemployment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 too keep another 60,000 Canadians off unemployment... No we don't - it's to amuze rich industrialist and high financer types...nothing like some killing to feel that you have lived a full life...Rich people like war more than poor people. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 23 countries still fly the Sea King including the USA and Britian...and luckily for the military I'm not the PM otherwise they'd see some serious budget slashing... Are their Sea Kings as old as ours? I never claimed that it wasn't originally a good design, just that when the helicopter is older than its pilots you have to expect excessive maintenance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Are their Sea Kings as old as ours? I never claimed that it wasn't originally a good design, just that when the helicopter is older than its pilots you have to expect excessive maintenance issues. I'll conceed that point, if you don't do the required maintance there are problems...but not just the libs dropped the ball on this the cons were involved as well...the helicopters are a needed piece of equipment that both parties have played politcal games with, they just need to pick a replacement and get on with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 No we don't - it's to amuze rich industrialist and high financer types...nothing like some killing to feel that you have lived a full life...Rich people like war more than poor people. Why is that? the USA most definitely,not so much in Canada our arms industry is rather small in comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 the USA most definitely,not so much in Canada our arms industry is rather small in comparison... *cough* ...imcomparison, everything compared to the USA is small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Boy© Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Liberal adds are pitiful. Horribly produced by talentless directors and writers - Let me put it out their to the liberal camp. You want to run this nation - Let ME produce your adds...I will get it right....where the hell do they find the idots to shoot these clips that fail to induce the seduction neccesary to take the prime ministers office away from him? Do they hire their nephews? They're no worse than the rest of them, all of the election adds are terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Boy© Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well, that was indeed dumb but it was like, half a century ago! The Arrow was a mastermind of technology, but not economically feasible. Budget was way overblown, and the American's were going to roll phantoms off the line for a fraction of the cost, in fact they did. I'm an airplane guy, learning to fly for a living right now, and I just can't understand why Canadians cling to this twisted memory. It's like little guy syndrome next to the big brother. The Orenda was a loss, the Arrow was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Boy© Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'll conceed that point, if you don't do the required maintance there are problems...but not just the libs dropped the ball on this the cons were involved as well...the helicopters are a needed piece of equipment that both parties have played politcal games with, they just need to pick a replacement and get on with it... What about the complete and utter destruction of the Cadet programs? That was a hell of a program, for the youth, that is a shell of what it once was. What the Trudeau era liberals did makes me sick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 What about the complete and utter destruction of the Cadet programs? That was a hell of a program, for the youth, that is a shell of what it once was.What the Trudeau era liberals did makes me sick... The cadet corps, Air Army and Sea cadets still very much alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 We don't have much offensive capability? In comparison to who (and I realize that Wild Bill has me on ignore and can't read this)? We are one of very few countries with real blue water naval capability, and one of the few countries that can project force around the world. It's true, our force isn't as large as that of other countries that we play with, but to say that in the world context we don't have much offensive capability is plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 We don't have much offensive capability? In comparison to who USA Russia China Taiwan North Korea South Korea Egypt Britain France Italy Iran Ukraine Israel Syria Turkey Vietnam India Pakistan Indonesia ...off the top of my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) We don't have much offensive capability? In comparison to who (and I realize that Wild Bill has me on ignore and can't read this)? We are one of very few countries with real blue water naval capability, and one of the few countries that can project force around the world. It's true, our force isn't as large as that of other countries that we play with, but to say that in the world context we don't have much offensive capability is plain wrong. what's defined as "blue water" navy has to be quite loose for Canada to fit that definition...traditionally Blue water requires an aircraft carrier and we have none...USA, UK, France, Russia, Italy, Spain, India, Brazil, Thailand have carriers, Blue Water navies.... we are no more capable of projecting Blue Water offensive force than many other countries...we are insignificant minnows... and Dancer is right most of those others listed would spank us severly... Edited September 15, 2009 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 what's defined as "blue water" navy has to be quite loose for Canada to fit that definition...traditionally Blue water requires an aircraft carrier and we have none... Well I don't know so much about needing an AC...but the ability for a flotilla to operate independantly for an extended length of time. I don't believe was have that ability...IE ..to send a flotilla half way around the globe, conduct an attack and return without paying a visit to a port. We can howeven, operate with blue water fleets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 How come every thread degenerates into a pissing contest with which countries the Canadian Military can beat? War isn't a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 War isn't a game. Actually it is. Only it's a deadly one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Boy© Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 The cadet corps, Air Army and Sea cadets still very much alive. It's a shell, the only thing left is drill & formality. All of the training programs are gone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 It's a shell, the only thing left is drill & formality. All of the training programs are gone... On the contrary, I know a few people who visited the 6 week camp at Valcartier....they still offer courses like mountaineering, leadership, driving..etc etc...still conduct small arms training, battloefield first aid and so on. If you look at the cadet summer programme, they still offer the same programme I took in 1974. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 what's defined as "blue water" navy has to be quite loose for Canada to fit that definition.. I didn't say that we have a blue water navy. We do by some definitions, but even if we don't, we have a very blue water capable green water navy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 USARussia China Taiwan North Korea South Korea Egypt Britain France Italy Iran Ukraine Israel Syria Turkey Vietnam India Pakistan Indonesia ...off the top of my head Many of those countries don't have the ability to move forces as we do. We have heavy air lift and a very capable navy. We have an ability of force protection that only a few countries can match. I'm not saying that we're the strongest, (we're definitely not), but so many try to make us out into the weakling that we're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 How come every thread degenerates into a pissing contest with which countries the Canadian Military can beat? War isn't a game. That's not at all what I was trying to say. I'm tired of people attacking our forces for lacking capability when much of the time, it's simply people wishing for something that we'll never have. Our forces do good work on behalf of us with good equipment save for a few examples. I get tire of the constant attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 That's not at all what I was trying to say. I'm tired of people attacking our forces for lacking capability when much of the time, it's simply people wishing for something that we'll never have. Our forces do good work on behalf of us with good equipment save for a few examples. I get tire of the constant attack. Like from the Liberal leader I know. When I heard him attacking our men and women who peace keep almost made me puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Many of those countries don't have the ability to move forces as we do. We have heavy air lift and a very capable navy. We have an ability of force protection that only a few countries can match. I'm not saying that we're the strongest, (we're definitely not), but so many try to make us out into the weakling that we're not. I respectfull sugest you are talking out your ass. We have heavy lift. Yep...we can move two full strength infantry platooons with supplies to last a week...we have a navy that can defeat almost every other nation that doesn't have a navy...as long as we don't come up 'gainst india or Italy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I didn't say that we have a blue water navy. We do by some definitions, but even if we don't, we have a very blue water capable green water navy. Are you angling for Chretian's speech writer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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