Is this message reasonable? Why not?

[DogOnPorch]

Ah...Duskie Ruskies?

Stalin killed all remaining Volga Germans who didn't escape Russia circa 1942. My lot made it to these fair shores in the 1850s...NYC...Chicago...Canada.

[Peter F]

Bonam - Im quite willing to drop the crap about superior culture/race too. Thats just picking at scabs.

As for stealing ideas from other cultures... who are you kidding. The vast majority of humanity's technological progress has happened in the last 100 years, and that progress has been carried out primarily in Western nations. All the advances of all the millenia that came before pale in comparison to the advances of the 20th century, and the advances of the 21st century will overshadow the 20th a thousandfold again. But that's a whole other topic.

True. and the vast majority of those advances came from a very few individuals. How many generations of Europeans lived and died before someone cottoned onto the idea that, ynow, maybe lightning is a form of electricity? Quite a few Europeans lived thier lives without that thought entering thier giant minds.

But because one guy makes the leap, another who benefits from that knowledge then makes another intellectual leap and so on and so forth., we can then say that because of those few remarkable individuals make Euro culture/White folks superior despite all the millions of unremarkable Euros/white folks.

And becuase of that Lictor and the rest of us whiteys - who never made any of those intellectual leaps at all - get to claim the genius of a few for ourselves.

Thats what Lictor is getting at and its entirely without merit.

[charter.rights]

Bonam - Im quite willing to drop the crap about superior culture/race too. Thats just picking at scabs.

True. and the vast majority of those advances came from a very few individuals. How many generations of Europeans lived and died before someone cottoned onto the idea that, ynow, maybe lightning is a form of electricity? Quite a few Europeans lived thier lives without that thought entering thier giant minds.

But because one guy makes the leap, another who benefits from that knowledge then makes another intellectual leap and so on and so forth., we can then say that because of those few remarkable individuals make Euro culture/White folks superior despite all the millions of unremarkable Euros/white folks.

And becuase of that Lictor and the rest of us whiteys - who never made any of those intellectual leaps at all - get to claim the genius of a few for ourselves.

Thats what Lictor is getting at and its entirely without merit.

The advancements of a civilization are credited to members of the civilization, and that includes all people from all races, cultures and continental families. Inventions and innovations - even in North America - cannot be solely credited to "white" North Americans, nor are Anglo Europeans all white Caucasians. Western advancement in the world is interdependent on almost every culture and thinking system, including the various religious ones.

Anyone who attempts to take credit for such advancements is living in la la land.

[DogOnPorch]

Bonam - Im quite willing to drop the crap about superior culture/race too. Thats just picking at scabs.

True. and the vast majority of those advances came from a very few individuals. How many generations of Europeans lived and died before someone cottoned onto the idea that, ynow, maybe lightning is a form of electricity? Quite a few Europeans lived thier lives without that thought entering thier giant minds.

But because one guy makes the leap, another who benefits from that knowledge then makes another intellectual leap and so on and so forth., we can then say that because of those few remarkable individuals make Euro culture/White folks superior despite all the millions of unremarkable Euros/white folks.

And becuase of that Lictor and the rest of us whiteys - who never made any of those intellectual leaps at all - get to claim the genius of a few for ourselves.

Thats what Lictor is getting at and its entirely without merit.

It was environments like that found in Renaissance Europe and so-forth that allowed these great intellectual leaps to occur. Just like that old TV show Connections/The Day the Universe Changed used to detail...

Sure, a Moor might have invented 'zero'...but it's what the fellow up north of him did with that concept that batted a homer.

[Bonam]

Bonam - Im quite willing to drop the crap about superior culture/race too. Thats just picking at scabs.

True. and the vast majority of those advances came from a very few individuals. How many generations of Europeans lived and died before someone cottoned onto the idea that, ynow, maybe lightning is a form of electricity? Quite a few Europeans lived thier lives without that thought entering thier giant minds.

But because one guy makes the leap, another who benefits from that knowledge then makes another intellectual leap and so on and so forth., we can then say that because of those few remarkable individuals make Euro culture/White folks superior despite all the millions of unremarkable Euros/white folks.

And becuase of that Lictor and the rest of us whiteys - who never made any of those intellectual leaps at all - get to claim the genius of a few for ourselves.

Thats what Lictor is getting at and its entirely without merit.

Perhaps, but my argument is entirely separate from lictor's. I make no claim to the white race being superior. Here, I seek only to point out the hypocrisy of condemning insulting remarks against other races as "racism" while failing to do so when insults are made against whites, the hypocrisy of affirmative action programs, the hypocrisy of racial pride programs (for all races besides whites), etc. These things need to be resolved if there is to be true equality. It has nothing to do with the superiority of any race or culture.

[Peter F]

Well, the evidence of population numbers is obvious. Where's the same for the racism?

Maybe there is no systemic racism. Maybe there are no glass-ceilings. Maybe the high incidence of blackmen raping white women

has no bearing on hiring practices. Maybe ... maybe not. I suspect systemic racism but I have no idea how to prove it. Perhaps it can't be proven. I don't know.

If non-"white" (it grates on me to use that term) people contributed relatively little, merely because of numbers, why pretend they contributed more? I mean, if I moved to Japan, I wouldn't expect my kids to learn Scottish history in school and cry racism when they didn't.

No you wouldnt. But who's to say I would make the same decisions you do?

[lictor616]

Right. And what race is Muhammed Ali? Barack Obama? Douglas Cardinal?

They are quite obviously MULATTOES, métis... mixtures... Did you really ever look at Obama as a black man? A sub saharan african?

look at the family pic.. spot the mixed race dude:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R8pI...in%2Bafrica.jpg

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps, but my argument is entirely separate from lictor's. I make no claim to the white race being superior. Here, I seek only to point out the hypocrisy of condemning insulting remarks against other races as "racism" while failing to do so when insults are made against whites, the hypocrisy of affirmative action programs, the hypocrisy of racial pride programs (for all races besides whites), etc. These things need to be resolved if there is to be true equality. It has nothing to do with the superiority of any race or culture.

I think one of the biggest factors that made European culture so dynamic was that it was bloody miserable in Europe most of the year. Necessity is the mother of invention. Why invent a chimney when it's hot all year-round?

[lictor616]

What do you want Bonam? A top-ten list of the best cultures in the world? We can doctor the criteria to ensure White-Nth-American culter gets top billing.

Why is it insulting when somebody says Europeans stole thier ideas from other cultures? Why would Haitians be insulted by Lictor saying their land is a cesspool? They shouldn't be insulted but you Lictor should be?

Yes, the double standard is disgusting

Its not only insulting.. its UNTRUE. Newton, was not black, Descartes was not asian, the Wright brothers were not Egyptians, Mozart was not from the Congo. Leonidas was not Asian. Hermann was not Berber. The drafters of the universal charter of Human rights were not Korean...

To say that Europeans are not creative and stole their inventions is nothing but undisguised hatred and contempt and is solely meant to defame Europeans because of some resentment that they did do some great and noble things... because you wish to portray europeans as somehow supremely evil... to dehumanize them, call them "thieves" so you can better oppress them and squeeze more guilt taxes from them...

And I'm sorry, but I provided startling images from Cité soleil haiti and other regions that are literally.. .and I mean literally... cesspools... meaning: excrement laced trash heaps... I'm sorry that I used a simple direct and accurate word to describe it... but calling Haiti a "beautiful and wondrous land" won't make it any less of a cesspool.

They shouldn't be insulted for my ACCURATE USE OF THE TERM. If large parts of canada were swimming in human excrements and looked like landfills, I'd call those CESSPOOLS as well..

Edited September 9, 2009 by lictor616

[Peter F]

It was environments like that found in Renaissance Europe and so-forth that allowed these great intellectual leaps to occur. Just like that old TV show Connections/The Day the Universe Changed used to detail...

Sure, a Moor might have invented 'zero'...but it's what the fellow up north of him did with that concept that batted a homer.

I loved that series. I wish I could buy the CD's somewhere. But because some guy up north somewhere gets inspired by zero doesnt mean that I - who am not inspired by zero in any innovative way - can claim superiority over moors.

[DogOnPorch]

I loved that series. I wish I could buy the CD's somewhere. But because some guy up north somewhere gets inspired by zero doesnt mean that I - who am not inspired by zero in any innovative way - can claim superiority over moors.

The Moors are living pretty much like they always have (if you) minus the French culture.

Edited September 9, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Peter F]

Its not only insulting.. its UNTRUE. Newton, was not black, Descartes was not asian, the Wright brothers were not Egyptians, Mozart was not from the Congo. Leonidas was not Asian. Hermann was not Berber. The drafters of the universal charter of Human rights were not Korean...

To say that Europeans are not creative and stole their inventions is nothing but undisguised hatred and contempt and is solely meant to defame Europeans because of some resentment that they did do some great and noble things... because you wish to portray europeans as somehow supremely evil... to dehumanize them, call them "thieves" so you can better oppress them and squeeze more guilt taxes from them...

And I'm sorry, but I provided startling images from Cité soleil haiti and other regions that are literally.. .and I mean literally... cesspools... meaning: excrement laced trash heaps... I'm sorry that I used a simple direct and accurate word to describe it... but calling Haiti a "beautiful and wondrous land" won't make it any less of a cesspool.

They shouldn't be insulted for my ACCURATE USE OF THE TERM. If large parts of canada were swimming in human excrements and looked like landfills, I'd call those CESSPOOLS as well..

Good. So you are white Trash.

[lictor616]

Your interest in nothingness is hilarious.

The reality is that the image of the overly powerful pre-contact European is a bloated myth. Europeans were late-comers to that continent - some 10,000 to 20,000 years after humans migrated to the Americas. Without other cultures and their technologies it is highly likely Europeans would not have survived. That is nothing about "race" but about a developing continent that was neither superior or more advanced than the heathens and savages most Europeans condemn.

Lictor666 has no point. That is his only point.

Your chronology is pretty selective of course... you generously ignore the Ancient Solutreans who left artifacts and positive biological traces of being in North America 14 to 16 000 years ago.

Solutrean spearheads have been found in Virgina, the Eastern Shore of Maryland, Clovis in New Mexico and up in Idaho. Kennewick Man was a latter-day Solutrean. Professor Bradley of The University of Exeter, England and Dennis Stanford, PhD of the Smithsonian in Washington are coming out with a powerful new book in 2008 PROVING that white Europeans settled North America thousands of years before any Asiatic Indians.

Even in south/central america! 2,000-year-old mummies of the blond and red-haired Viracocha people are all over coastal Peru. The Inca people admitted to the Spanish that the white "Viracocha" founded the first civilization... The conquistador, Pedro Pizarro, mentions in particular "certain individuals in present day Peru who were White and had red hair and europoid features. Thor Heyerdahl, in his book "Aku-Aku: The Secret of Easter Island" (George Allen & Unwin, London 1988 page 351).

Either way what you said is totally unambiguous, and no amount of quibbling can make it different: you said that Europeans were TINY BRAINED... Then you go about saying that European achievements are grossly "bloated" "myths" (I suppose no one invented the airplane, the combustion engine etc.. those too like race are figments of the imagination... Combine these two (and MANY MANY other posts of yours) and it all amounts to Europeans being inferior vis a vis other races...

how else could one interpret "tiny brained" ... stop denying ... just admit that you hate white people and see them as profane inferiors..

Edited September 9, 2009 by lictor616

[lictor616]

Octoberfest......German History Month

Oktoberfest isn't a month, has almost zero history component and as for "generating pride of white history", any reasonable argument may as well fly out the window...

And in canada, Oktoberfest is pretty darn rare... you have to go to Kitchener the Loo etc... and lasts a weekend or two. Although it is a great deal of fun...

[g_bambino]

They are quite obviously MULATTOES,

I asked you to tell me what race those individuals "obviously" are. Mulatto isn't a race.

[DogOnPorch]

Your chronology is pretty selective of course... you generously ignore the Ancient Solutreans who left artifacts and positive biological traces of being in North America 14 to 16 000 years ago.

Solutrean spearheads have been found in Virgina, the Eastern Shore of Maryland, Clovis in New Mexico and up in Idaho. Kennewick Man was a latter-day Solutrean. Professor Bradley of The University of Exeter, England and Dennis Stanford, PhD of the Smithsonian in Washington are coming out with a powerful new book in 2008 PROVING that white Europeans settled North America thousands of years before any Asiatic Indians.....

While it is indeed a possibility that Solutrean peoples/culture made it to NA, it is highly likely that they didn't or couldn't arrive in large enough numbers to remain there...the limited gene pool would have led to inbreeding and such which is the doom of any isolated group.

Edited September 9, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[g_bambino]

No you wouldnt. But who's to say I would make the same decisions you do?

I don't know. But, does it matter? One cannot rightly claim racism when the contributions of one's "people" to a region's history is given an equivalent amount of general attention in that very region.

[Peter F]

The Moors are living pretty much like they always have (if you) minus the French culture.

Well I would say they are pretty much not living like they always have. They too have planes trains and automobiles(and web dating).

[DogOnPorch]

While just outside the city, time turns back to the 9th century.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Your chronology is pretty selective of course... you generously ignore the Ancient Solutreans who left artifacts and positive biological traces of being in North America 14 to 16 000 years ago.

Solutrean spearheads have been found in Virgina, the Eastern Shore of Maryland, Clovis in New Mexico and up in Idaho. Kennewick Man was a latter-day Solutrean. Professor Bradley of The University of Exeter, England and Dennis Stanford, PhD of the Smithsonian in Washington are coming out with a powerful new book in 2008 PROVING that white Europeans settled North America thousands of years before any Asiatic Indians.

Even in south/central america! 2,000-year-old mummies of the blond and red-haired Viracocha people are all over coastal Peru. The Inca people admitted to the Spanish that the white "Viracocha" founded the first civilization... The conquistador, Pedro Pizarro, mentions in particular "certain individuals in present day Peru who were White and had red hair and europoid features. Thor Heyerdahl, in his book "Aku-Aku: The Secret of Easter Island" (George Allen & Unwin, London 1988 page 351).

How about some links?

[DogOnPorch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

[Peter F]

I don't know. But, does it matter? One cannot rightly claim racism when the contributions of one's "people" to a region's history is given an equivalent amount of general attention in that very region.

I wouldn't be claiming racism for not being taught Scottish history. but I think we can agree that racism doe's somehow exist somewhere - perhaps even at a systemic level - maybe even in Japan.

[lictor616]

who never made any of those intellectual leaps at all - get to claim the genius of a few for ourselves.

Thats what Lictor is getting at and its entirely without merit.

no one claims to co-opt these "inventions"

No, we get to claim membership of the extended family of all those brilliant minds. Its not like I believe that I discovered electricity by saying that I belong European kin. It means that I belong to a continuum of a peculiar cline and civilization... If anything it gives me a stronger sense of identity, a much stronger sense of community... of rootedness, relatedness with the past and connection with the future... Learning about our great and noble ancestors is very positive I think. Everyone should be acquainted with a people's hero's and geniuses... That's what role models are made of... it gives people a context a purpose and something to strive for...

For instance, one of the special charms that Aesop's Fables holds for me is the knowledge that Alexander the Great, for example, had read exactly these same compiled fables when he was a child, more than 2,400 years ago.

When we are told about the boy who cried, wolf, The Mischievous Dog, and think about the lessons these stories teach, it should thrill us to think that nearly every great man in Western history, for thousands of years, had read these same stories as children and had learned the same lessons.

I don't know how you misconstrue that as anything else...

[lictor616]

I asked you to tell me what race those individuals "obviously" are. Mulatto isn't a race.

yes mulattos most certainly is a racial classification. as is métis...

Obama is half Europoid half congoid... certainly these types could be called specific biological names, but given the taboo on the subject .... none exist...

I could suggest Alpino-congoid for the president though...

[g_bambino]

I think we can agree that racism doe's somehow exist somewhere - perhaps even at a systemic level - maybe even in Japan.

Yes, I can agree that racism exists, and I know that it does indeed have life in Japan. But the question is not whether racism exists at all; rather, it's: is what's called racism always actually racism?