Argus Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 There is no one so outrageous as a thief accusing another for their thievery. That's what I've been saying about you Liberals for the last few years, and your response has been "But the Liberals!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 That's what I've been saying about you Liberals for the last few years, and your response has been "But the Liberals!" The problem for you is that you accuse everyone with a blanket statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim MacSquinty Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Just pointing out that the campaign the Tories have mounted in recent years is on the negative side.This ad the Liberals have put out is pretty low key. Look, Harper has said he wants to do things differently. If you have to justify present behaviour by going back five, ten or even longer back in the past, it doesn't help the cause. The point is that the Liberals have been at least equal in low blows, especially in their innuendo laced rhetoric trying to link Haper to Bush, using terms like "republican style" all the time knowing full well the Tories are well left of the US right wing, then and calling them "neo-cons", a title which clearly does not apply, and intimating there was always a "hidden agenda". These are all expamples of the lowest form of politicing and people have become so accustomed to hearing these unfounded factoids that they forget they are falsehoods. I have little doubt that initially Harper probably wanted to do things diffferently, just like Obama, but faced with partisan politicing like the examples above it proved extremely difficult, so default to what works. The point about Manning was to show that Manning would have turned parliment on its ear, he had some good ideas but many more would have been ground shaking, Harper has no such agenda yet has faced far more scrutiny than Manning. The problem with the Liberals is that although there may be many good people in the party, the upper tier in charge of the party tend to view power as a means to enrich themselves, look at the provincial liberals here in Ontario, they appoint their friends to positions of power then their friends hand out untendered contract for millions of dollars to their insider friends, its just a whole bunch of little adscams over and over and who goes to jail, hell nobody even pays the money back. On balance its a pretty risk free scheme even if you get caught one in ten times. Edited September 7, 2009 by Slim MacSquinty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 The point is that the Liberals have been at least equal in low blows, especially in their innuendo laced rhetoric trying to link Haper to Bush, using terms like "republican style" all the time knowing full well the Tories are well left of the US right wing then and calling them "neo-cons", a title which clearly does not apply, and intimating there was always a "hidden agenda". These are all expamples of the lowest form of politicing and people have become so accustomed to hearing these unfounded factoids that they forget they are falshoods. I have little doubt that initially Harper probably wanted to do things diffferently, just like Obama, but faced with partisan politicing like the examples above it proved extremely difficult, so default to what works.The point about Manning was to show that Manning would have turned parliment on its ear, he had some good ideas but many more would have been ground shaking, Harper has no such agenda yet has faced far more scrutiny than Manning. Harper should have known he would, just because you join the PC's and change the name of the party doesn't necessarily mean you change your beliefs of the old party. People didn't trust the Alliance and people still don't trust Harper and he's earned not being trustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Even Preson Manning was treated with less speculation, rumour and negative press than Harper. Preston Manning was never even close to becoming Prime Minister. I think that makes the situation quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Liberal platform- "Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, Everything that's wonderful is what we'll feel when we're together" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Liberal platform- And the Tory platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 And the Tory platform? well... just like last election, the Conservative platform will be released after the leadership debate(s)... with only a few days left in the campaign (but only if the media raises enough of a "stink" about the "lost in translation/missing" Conservative platform) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 And the Tory platform? We know what that is. It is called a budget. Honestly we know their direction. Although I hope they and the Liberals don't release anything so jack can nail them with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 And the Tory platform? BIG LETTERS and lot's of pictures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charter.rights Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 We know what that is. It is called a budget. Honestly we know their direction. Although I hope they and the Liberals don't release anything so jack can nail them with it. Sure. "Vote for the Conservative Party of Canada. We have a budget that will put us $50 billion more in debt...and maybe $300-400 billion if you vote for us. We are the party with a budget!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 "Vote for the Conservative Party of Canada. We have a budget that will put us $50 billion more in debt...and maybe $300-400 billion if you vote for us. We are the party with a budget!" A budget also doesn't tell us social direction such as how they will respond to issues like culture, language, foreign affairs. I don't think anyone would be satisfied with "it's in the budget." Really. That tells us how you the policy on dealing with Canadians who need government assistance overseas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunata Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Think it shows that the kick off isn't a particularly negative one. We'll see if the Tories go for a kick in the balls as their usual response. When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail. -- Abraham Maslow -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddSox Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Platform? Why bother - they won't pay any attention to it anyway if/when they get elected. Did they cancel he GST yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Platform? Why bother - they won't pay any attention to it anyway if/when they get elected. Did they cancel he GST yet? No, because whatever else they are, they aren't morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Platform? Why bother - they won't pay any attention to it anyway if/when they get elected. Did they cancel he GST yet? Wait are you talking about the Liberals or Tories? Ohhhhh yeah same parties, same lies, same broken promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 IF Iggy can get the support from Ontario and Quebec to the Martimes, he could get a majority government. We know how the Martimes feels about the Tories and we know that there is over a million without jobs and we know that Ontario has been hit hard. You may see NDP supporters who are unemployed vote for the first time for the Libs, and I think we will see more voters voting and I hope its before the snow flies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Platform? Why bother - they won't pay any attention to it anyway if/when they get elected. Did they cancel he GST yet? How about those Tories and term limits? Real knee slapper that law is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddSox Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Gee, I guess that hit close to home. How about that Red Book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Gee, I guess that hit close to home.How about that Red Book? Guess that hit close to home for you too. How about not taxing income trusts? A real barnburner that promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddSox Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Guess that hit close to home for you too.How about not taxing income trusts? A real barnburner that promise. Ho hum. Just one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Ho hum. Just one? There is a long list of broken promises. He has never been able to keep his promise to limit spending even when times were good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Ho hum. Just one? Senators? GST on gasoline? Floor Crossing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 A budget also doesn't tell us social direction such as how they will respond to issues like culture, language, foreign affairs. I don't think social issues will be the focus of Liberal policy in the coming election. Ignatieff's first ad gave us a clue. The main theme will be "a big Canada in the world". This was suggested by one pundit the day following the disastrous Liberal showing in the last election. But since the election of Paul Martin, the party has tilted left, weighed down by such issues as the Kelowna Accord, which would offer financial assistance to native children, or same-sex marriage. These policies appeal to the party's base, but without the centre-right economics, it loses that unique, broad niche in the Canadian political psyche.One big topic it has yet to address in a meaningful way is globalization. Just as Brian Mulroney addressed the American century by introducing NAFTA, the Liberals need a big idea that would help Canada succeed in the global century. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/el....html?id=883068 As he was thinking thoughts, he decided to think big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 I don't think social issues will be the focus of Liberal policy in the coming election. Ignatieff's first ad gave us a clue. The main theme will be "a big Canada in the world". This was suggested by one pundit the day following the disastrous Liberal showing in the last election. I was speaking on another matter. The argument was made that a budget told us what the Tory platform is. It didn't and doesn't. As he was thinking thoughts, he decided to think big. The deficit is the issue. The Tories are likely to have respond with the actual policies on it or risk losing their own base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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