Greyhound bus service in Man., NW Ont. to end

[bush_cheney2004]

....However, the clock is ticking and we don't have any idea how or who in the province is going to negotiate when it seems it is a take it or leave it option.

Good....I want to see how this micro tempest plays out in the short term for those who boast with such bravado that NAFTA must go....they can put up or shut up....and walk.

[Hydraboss]

I was listening to an interview between Dave Rutherford (Corus) and a "representative" from Greyhound yesterday.

Seems the problem is that Grey Dog wants $15mil from the feds to fund 50% of the unprofitable routes. Feds said no. It appears that Greyhound is mandated (in an agreement with Ottawa) to service these routes, and that was in exchange for exclusivity in other, more profitable ones. The rep from Greyhound refused to say which ones those were or how they would spend the $15mil.

The other difficulty is that Greyhound, although a federal carrier, must apply to each provincial transportation board/branch before it can change a route or adjust a fare. The province has the final say on what changes the bus line can make, short of closing down in that jurisdiction.

Dave asked the woman if they would be willing to open up everything to competition in order to get out of the requirement to service those routes. Dead silence.

I agree with Dave in that, since Greyhound is a private-publicly traded company, they have the right to operate at a profit. The other side of that is they should give up the exclusive service rights in other areas if they want to pick and choose. This whole thing is starting to remind me of the Air Canada fiascos over the last 25 years.

[kimmy]

It appears that Greyhound is mandated (in an agreement with Ottawa) to service these routes, and that was in exchange for exclusivity in other, more profitable ones.

aha! Not so simple as it first appeared.

I agree with Dave in that, since Greyhound is a private-publicly traded company, they have the right to operate at a profit. The other side of that is they should give up the exclusive service rights in other areas if they want to pick and choose.

If Greyhound has entered into some agreement, then I sould expect that there are potentially legal means of holding them to it until alternative arrangements can be made.

Ultimately, I still feel that if British Columbia can operate billions of dollars worth of capital in getting people from the mainland to islands up and down the coast, inland provinces can figure out some way of getting people up and down the highway.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

....If Greyhound has entered into some agreement, then I sould expect that there are potentially legal means of holding them to it until alternative arrangements can be made.

If the province did enter into any such exclusive agreement, then they certainly deserve such a fate even more. Thirty days notice may in fact be part of a legal termination for such a contract. How dare those big bad multi-nationals try to make a buck!

[kimmy]

If the province did enter into any such exclusive agreement, then they certainly deserve such a fate even more. Thirty days notice may in fact be part of a legal termination for such a contract. How dare those big bad multi-nationals try to make a buck!

They're certainly welcome to. But If they're breaking a contract, they may need to factor legal costs and punitive costs into their balance sheet.

I suspect Mr Baird is right: they're trying to stir up public sentiment in order to give themselves a position to strengthen their negotiating position when they ask for more cash. We shall see.

-k

[jdobbin]

Ultimately, I still feel that if British Columbia can operate billions of dollars worth of capital in getting people from the mainland to islands up and down the coast, inland provinces can figure out some way of getting people up and down the highway.

Bus exclusivity is a federal thing.

I suppose Manitoba could start its own service or ask Saskatchewan to extend their service but the Feds are the primary on this and while there is a role for the province, we have to wait for the Federal response. The clock is ticking.

[Bryan]

Something is not right with this picture.....there are more scheduled Manitoba routes than in more populated areas (Mexico / USA). And why can't Canada Post or UPS pick up the parcel service?

http://www.greyhound.com/locations/routemap.shtml

UPS Canada sucks hard, they are not an option at all.

Canada Post does deliver pretty much everywhere, the advantage of bus parcel service is just the quicker turnaround.

Are those low route regions you mention in the US covered by other regional bus lines? Those extensive routes in Manitoba were part of Grey Goose, our local bus line, but Greyhound bought the company. The reason some people feel the onus on them to maintain the service (besides the exclusivity contracts they have with the feds and the province), is it was already there before they bought the company. If they didn't think the service was viable, why did they go through all of the fuss of moving out of their downtown location, and into a new multimillion dollar terminal? It doesn't add up.

What Greyhound is doing is just extortion. I say tell them to pound sand, then decide what to do (if anything) based on their reaction. Smallc's mention of giving the option for those routes to Beaver is a good one.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Bryan

[bush_cheney2004]

UPS Canada sucks hard, they are not an option at all.

OK....I guess FedEx, Purolator, DHL, etc., also suck. I guess other couriers suck too. They all suck. Now why would that be? Why would all these services, including Canada Post....just "suck"?

...What Greyhound is doing is just extortion. I say tell them to pound sand, then decide what to do (if anything) based on their reaction. Smallc's mention of giving the option for those routes to Beaver is a good one.

I agree 100%....tell them to "pound sand"...that'll show 'em!

[Smallc]

And this can be done in less than a month?

I'm sure a system could be worked out in the meantime with other providers. I say, call their bluff.

[jdobbin]

I'm sure a system could be worked out in the meantime with other providers. I say, call their bluff.

Call their bluff but don't be surprised if there is no service in October.

I haven't even heard of any other service that is prepared to go right away except maybe Saskatchewan. And they might not touch it if there are lawsuits involved.

[Smallc]

Call their bluff and find another way. Use provincial fleet vans if you have to. Hire beaver to do the heavier routes. Don't give in, because they're being bullies. I'm actually disappointed in the province and their willingness to negotiate.

[jdobbin]

Call their bluff and find another way. Use provincial fleet vans if you have to. Hire beaver to do the heavier routes. Don't give in, because they're being bullies. I'm actually disappointed in the province and their willingness to negotiate.

Don't know if Beaver has even offered. They have 50 buses that mostly serve charter duties.

The main inter-city bus service they run is between Selkirk and Winnipeg. They don't seem to run a parcel service which is one of the main areas of concern for rural towns after passenger service. I wonder if the Fehr family has even been contacted. The silence from the provincial front is rather alarming.

The other choice is Saskatchewan's Crown The Bus Company. They have offered to help but no one in government appears to have responded. STC has 209 places they provide service in Saskatchewan to and offer parcel service. They have only 45 vehicles but some of them are quite small. Hard to say whether they could have it all ready to go. They need enough lead time to develop their network.

Heck, if the government throws a wide enough net, they might ask the Zelle family to extend the Jefferson Bus line through the province.

The big thing is timeliness. This can't happen in a day. We will be in crisis October 1 if no one can get their act together.

By the way, what provincial fleet of vans are you referring to? I don't know of any excess capacity in the system.

Here is what some small bus companies are saying:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingn...y-57602812.html

If Greyhound abandons Manitoba, smaller bus companies would be hard-pressed to pick up the slack, say some local operators.

"It's just not profitable at all," said Boutin Bus Lines owner Gerry Boutin, who operates three routes for Greyhound using small, 15-seat vans. "The passenger count is not good."

We have 160 locations to serve in Manitoba.

They can't be served unless Manitoba seriously looks at subsidy followed by deregulation.

However, we know that the NDP don't like deregulation. It is one of the reasons we still have rent control which allows this year only a 1% increase while the vacancy rate is near 0%.

Edited September 6, 2009 by jdobbin

[Smallc]

Dobbin, we can't give into the threats. We can buy vans if we have to, and we can buy buses too. In the meantime, we can put out contracts.

[jdobbin]

Dobbin, we can't give into the threats. We can buy vans if we have to, and we can buy buses too. In the meantime, we can put out contracts.

I think I indicated that the province is sitting on the sidelines. A lot of this lies in the federal domain. If they say no then the province should act. I am seeing no indication of that, are you?

[Smallc]

I don't really know what the province is doing. They say they want to talk to Greyhound, and I'm disappointed in that.

[Bonam]

Greyhound bus service in Man., NW Ont. to end

Doesn't surprise me. Who wants to ride on a bus line where people get decapitated by their fellow passengers?