You let in a right wing party

[Molly]

Wasn't there two Liberals who joined Calvert's cabinet and gave them the stability to withstand an election from the Saskatchewan Party? Other Liberals fell in with the Saskatchewan Part and only a rump of Liberals stayed the course.

Not that I know of. In 1999, under Romanow, the NDP came out short of majority. The Liberals had 3 elected, and one dead heat down in Wood River, Huyghebaert (SP) vs. MacPherson (formerly NDP, until Wood River was raped by the NDP slash and burn cuts-- crossed the floor to the Liberals). Without waiting for MacPhersons results, or consulting with party executive they formed a coalition with the NDP, placing two of those three in cabinet, and the third as speaker. All three were ordered by the party to withdraw from the coalition, refused, and were ejected from the Liberal party. MacPherson withdrew from the by election, and, to the best of my knowledge, the Liberals haven't elected a member of the legislature in that province since then.

I had quite a few friends who were organizers/executive for the Liberal party at the time. Every last one of them either went immediately to work for the Sask party (which, in its early days, was a Liberal/ PC coalition) or ended their political activity entirely-- very, very bitter.

Given the scandals with the present NDP leadership race that is being investigated, there is probably an opportunity for the party to re-build.

IMO, there hasn't been so good an opportunity for the Liberal party since Ross Thatcher-- assuming they can get their act together. That leadership choice has to have the NDP irreparably fractured.

I know some NDPers want only two parties in Canada since they believe it gives them a 50-50 chance of being in power. I think that the either/or choice is too narrow. If I did not have an option that I wished to vote, I would not vote. Period.

In Saskatchewan, the reality has been the NDP vs. everyone else ever since the days of Ross Thatcher. The three way splits are what gave Romanow that much power for that long. The Sask Party fortunes are a direct result of the demise of both the PCs and the Liberals.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Molly

[jdobbin]

Not that I know of. In 1999, under Romanow, the NDP came out short of majority. The Liberals had 3 elected, and one dead heat down in Wood River, Huyghebaert (SP) vs. MacPherson (formerly NDP, until Wood River was raped by the NDP slash and burn cuts-- crossed the floor to the Liberals). Without waiting for MacPhersons results, or consulting with party executive they formed a coalition with the NDP, placing two of those three in cabinet, and the third as speaker. All three were ordered by the party to withdraw from the coalition, refused, and were ejected from the Liberal party. MacPherson withdrew from the by election, and, to the best of my knowledge, the Liberals haven't elected a member of the legislature in that province since then.

You are correct. I meant some Liberals had been part of Romanow and Calvert's government until 2003 when they were punished for their efforts.

I had quite a few friends who were organizers/executive for the Liberal party at the time. Every last one of them either went immediately to work for the Sask party (which, in its early days, was a Liberal/ PC coalition) or ended their political activity entirely-- very, very bitter.

I believe it. It is why the provincial Liberals have remained separate from both the PCs and NDP in Manitoba. It is the quickest way to to two party politics which I feel is very limiting.

IMO, there hasn't been so good an opportunity for the Liberal party since Ross Thatcher-- assuming they can get their act together. That leadership choice has to have the NDP irreparably fractured.

In Saskatchewan, the reality has been the NDP vs. everyone else ever since the days of Ross Thatcher. The three way splits are what gave Romanow that much power for that long. The Sask Party fortunes are a direct result of the demise of both the PCs and the Liberals.

I probably would have done what your friends did and left provincial politics altogether without a third choice.

[Molly]

Oh yes.

I had never really thought of Liberals within the Calvert cabinet, because... well... there weren't any.

They had not yet faced the electorate when Calvert took over the leadership, but had long since been ejected from the Liberal Party- and that's where I wasn't following the reference.

My miss. I wasn't around for that end-game portion of the story, and pretty much dismissed the existence of those guys since their political fortunes ceased to exist the day they took up with Romanow. They weren't just lame ducks- they had chewed off all of their own legs.

I do understand that withdrawal from political activity, but for the electorate, though, it really was much more a matter of 'NDP' or 'not NDP'. I attended MacPhersons Liberal nomination (and had to buy a membership to do it), just to see who else would be present. I saw a lot of lifelong PCs , there to support the nomination of an ex-NDP MLA, as a Liberal candidate. They worked his campaign, too. They had just been through a similarly deep, but less spectacular betrayal. Interesting times in that riding.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Molly

[jdobbin]

I do understand that withdrawal from political activity, but for the electorate, though, it really was much more a matter of 'NDP' or 'not NDP'.

I'd run first before I gave up a third option. I don't believe in the us or them scenario. My view is that it starts to turn people off of politics in even greater numbers.

[Molly]

I daresay if you were there at the time, you'd judge the situation differently.

Those were the days of the 'rural/urban split'. The NDP base was entirely urban, and they held just enough of the balance to brutally bludgeon all things rural. Party philosophy had SFA to do with anything; nuance had no place.

You were either in favor of shutting down all rural services- of taxation without services- or you weren't.

In much of rural Saskatchewan it was simply a matter of survival.... and it was a losing battle. Between the (vindictive) efforts of the provincial government, the shifts in transport and marketing, and the malaise in the agricultural environment in general, the vast majority of not-so-long-ago thriving rural communities are now a wasteland.

[Molly]

Well, well, well....

Lingenfelter didn't exactly slam-dunk that by-election in one of the safest NDP seats in the province.

He scored 50.2% of the vote, to the Sask Party 45%. That's a steep decline from Van Mulligans record there.

[punked]

Well, well, well....

Lingenfelter didn't exactly slam-dunk that by-election in one of the safest NDP seats in the province.

He scored 50.2% of the vote, to the Sask Party 45%. That's a steep decline from Van Mulligans record there.

Considering the Liberals didn't run anyone AND the candidate that did run ran previously as a Liberal but switched to the Sask party AND the Liberals endorsed them I would call it a big win. Especially with a membership scandal that Lingenfelter has right now.

[Molly]

Ha! Van Mulligan won with 52% of the vote in that riding in a general election with the NDP in decline, and the Liberals filedinga candidate! (edit: Just checked. 57% of the vote in 2003...)

You have a very different definition of a 'big win' than I do!

Edited September 22, 2009 by Molly

[Oleg Bach]

Ha! Van Mulligan won with 52% of the vote in that riding in a general election with the NDP in decline, and the Liberals filedinga candidate! (edit: Just checked. 57% of the vote in 2003...)

You have a very different definition of a 'big win' than I do!

So is benny now one of the leftist types who have joined the electronic version of the "diappeared"? Ha ha.

[punked]

Ha! Van Mulligan won with 52% of the vote in that riding in a general election with the NDP in decline, and the Liberals filedinga candidate! (edit: Just checked. 57% of the vote in 2003...)

You have a very different definition of a 'big win' than I do!

Your team lost get over it and stop spinning a lose as a win.

[Molly]

My team?

My team?

I didn't have a dog in that race, Punked, and in case you are wondering, adding a Liberal candidate wouldn't have given me one. The Liberal party is irrelevant in that province, and hasn't shown any sign of being a positive influence since Lynda Haverstock was the leader.

I do, however, have long familiarity with Lingenfelter, and firmly believe that your party, and the province, will rue the day he came back. How well he is tolerated by party / province/ constituency- how he conducts himself- interests me mightily.

I consider him to be the authour of most of the very worst that came from the Romanow cabinet, in terms of both policy and of ethics.

[KeyStone]

"Saskatchewan is projecting a $1.3-billion drop in potash revenues this fiscal year.....To deal with the shortfall, the government said it will take a $185-million dividend from the Crown Investments Corp. and delay funding the children’s hospital in Saskatoon and some schools."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1137644.html

The NDP set them up for successes and they still f it up.

I dislike the Conservatives as much as anyone, but you have to be living in a cave not to realize that the economy isn't doing all that great right now, and the premier of Manitoba probably isn't completely responsible for the downward economy.

[punked]

I dislike the Conservatives as much as anyone, but you have to be living in a cave not to realize that the economy isn't doing all that great right now, and the premier of Manitoba probably isn't completely responsible for the downward economy.

No because Manitoba is the only province not to fall in recession so I would give the NDP premier in Manitoba props. However their Neighbour Sask is feeling it after being handed the one of the best provinces with some of the best books in the country the Sask party crapped it up again.

[punked]

Ohhhhh Brad Walls leadership shinning through again.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/stor...statistics.html