Dave_ON Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 The national anthem, is what it is, which is a song. Does it stir my heart? No, because it isn't even close to the truth. It is a dream in a nation that is afraid to dream. It is a riddle wrapped in an enigma and does little to represent this nation at all. That is truly unfortunate that it doesn't stir your heart. But I have to disagree with you that it doesn't represent us as a nation. One stanza that has always stood out for me and has always rung true is: With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! You may be right that it no longer rings true in all of Canada but perhaps that's because, as was pointed out earlier, the anthem isn't sung anymore. We're not teaching our kids the importance of the anthem which is an intricate part of our heritage. The song certainly is representative of Canada during both World Wars, and those words "O Canada we stand on guard for thee", still ring true in places like the Maritimes. I'm afraid if we don't start teaching our children the importance of "true patriot love" they're not likely to learn it on their own. We take a lot for granted in this country, and the anthem always serves as a reminder to me of how these freedoms were hard won and must be vigilant to maintain them. That's what the anthem means to me, but perhaps I'm in the minority. I consider myself a fair minded, relatively liberal and accommodating person. But I firmly believe that no matter if you came to this country from another or you were born here your first loyalty should always be to Canada, all other cultural/regional loyalties should be secondary. We are a culture made up of many cultures, but in the end no matter the region we’re from we’re all Canadians, and sadly we all too often lose sight of that fact. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
madmax Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I'm not saying anything wrong with the Anthem per se (though I do know some Christian sects that consider it idolatry and what not), but simply pointing out the irony that the very people defending it on the grounds of patriotism are showing themselve to be the lest patriotic by spewing forth Taliban-like death threats, totally defying the intended spirit of the very Anthem they're trying to defend, making it pointless anyway. Did you read the article??? It is the person who wants the Anthem Played that is screaming "Taliban Death Threats", for which he was convicted in the court of law.. He claims he won, however, and his point was made. A point that you agree with. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Didn't see it mentioned yet, but Justin Morneau (from BC ) expressed disapointment at how differently the Canadian anthem was presented at the 2009 major leage baseball All Star Game (played in St. Louis, MO). It matters to him! Canadian slugger Justin Morneau says he is unimpressed with the way O Canada was treated at baseball's most recent all-star game in St. Louis. Prior to Tuesday night's game, Grammy Award-winning singer Sheryl Crow performed the Star Spangled Banner at Busch Stadium. But she didn't sing O Canada -- and neither did anybody else. Instead, an instrumental version of Canada's national anthem was piped through stadium speakers. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads= Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 It matters to most of us. There's a difference between enforcing a daily singing and treating 2 anthems unequally at an international event. Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 It matters to most of us. There's a difference between enforcing a daily singing and treating 2 anthems unequally at an international event. Agreed, but it didn't matter enough for someone to aggressively volunteer music and vocals. I don't recall how this has been handled in previous All Star Games. O Canada has certainly been sung in the flesh at other events in the US (but not in French). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Agreed, but it didn't matter enough for someone to aggressively volunteer music and vocals. I don't recall how this has been handled in previous All Star Games. O Canada has certainly been sung in the flesh at other events in the US (but not in French). Last year my kids performed at Sea World in San Diego. There was a mix up with the music for the anthems, so they asked if a few of us parents would sing O Canada. We agreed... but fortunately the CD worked so we didn't have to "perform". We did, however, sing along with all 3 anthems (Canada, US and Breat Britain) After God Save the Queen was over, the ladies in front of me wondered aloud why they played America the Beautiful. I told her it was Great Britain's national anthem, so she said, "they must have stole it from us." I'm wondering.... how would someone know they had to "aggressively volunteer music and vocals"? When I'm at an international event, I assume the anthems are taken care of, unless I hear an organizer frantically trying to find music. Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) ....I'm wondering.... how would someone know they had to "aggressively volunteer music and vocals"? When I'm at an international event, I assume the anthems are taken care of, unless I hear an organizer frantically trying to find music. A multi-million dollar event like an ASG takes lots of planning, and that includes "singing"the anthems. Somebody managing the event must have known that the Canadian anthem was not being served well/equally and should have taken action, which was Morneau's main point. Assuming that the protocols have been covered leads to this kind of slight. Now that I think about it, I specifically remember O Canada being sung live in previous games, so when I say "aggressively", I mean demanding the opportunity be presented and satisfied with live voice and music. American vocalists jump at the opportunity to do this , even if it means suffering through Roseanne Barr as a terrible gag. Edited July 28, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 A multi-million dollar event like an ASG takes lots of planning, and that includes "singing"the anthems. Somebody managing the event must have known that the Canadian anthem was not being served well/equally and should have taken action, which was Morneau's main point. Assuming that the protocols have been covered leads to this kind of slight.Now that I think about it, I specifically remember O Canada being sung live in previous games, so when I say "aggressively", I mean demanding the opportunity be presented and satisfied with live voice and music. American vocalists jump at the opportunity to do this , even if it means suffering through Roseanne Barr as a terrible gag. Right. So who are you blaming here? Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
Dave_ON Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 A multi-million dollar event like an ASG takes lots of planning, and that includes "singing"the anthems. Somebody managing the event must have known that the Canadian anthem was not being served well/equally and should have taken action, which was Morneau's main point. Assuming that the the protocols have been covered leads to this kind of slight.Now that I think about it, I specifically remember O Canada being sung live in previous games, so when I say "aggressively", I mean demanding the opportunity be presented and satisfied with live voice and music. Americans vocalists jump at the opportunity to do this , even if it means suffering through Roseanne Barr as a terrible gag. Roseanne Barr was an absolute disaster and I was terribly embarrassed for all Americans as a result. This isn't the first slight to Canada during a ball game however; in the 1992 World Champs the US Marine Color Guard hung the Maple Leaf upside down. Baseball organizers aren't very good at the little details of international protocol and courtesy. How you hang a maple leaf upside down is beyond me. http://www.betmlb.org/bluejays.html Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Right. So who are you blaming here? Wasn't really blaming anybody. This is not a new issue, and event organizers as well as interested insiders should have recognized the problem. Maybe they used a "CD" as backup too when other plans fell through.....we just don't know. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Roseanne Barr was an absolute disaster and I was terribly embarrassed for all Americans as a result. This isn't the first slight to Canada during a ball game however; in the 1992 World Champs the US Marine Color Guard hung the Maple Leaf upside down. Baseball organizers aren't very good at the little details of international protocol and courtesy. How you hang a maple leaf upside down is beyond me. http://www.betmlb.org/bluejays.html Or the guy who confused O Canada for Oh Tannenbaum. Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
Machjo Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 Did you read the article??? It is the person who wants the Anthem Played that is screaming "Taliban Death Threats", for which he was convicted in the court of law.. Yeah, and it was the ones who wanted the Anthem played were were making the death threats, he being one of them. It wasn't the parents requesting the exemption. He claims he won, however, and his point was made. A point that you agree with. In a sense he did win. The provincial government has since made it mandatory. Do I agree with that decision? I don't know. However, I do agree with the government taking some kind of clear stance so as to take that burden off of the shoulders of principals. Principals have more important things to do than worry for their safety and take people to court to put them in prison. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 It matters to most of us. There's a difference between enforcing a daily singing and treating 2 anthems unequally at an international event. To be fair though, whereas the Star Spangled banner has but one version, what if someone had risen up to sing: « O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. » Remember, Canada has two official versions, so from that standpoint, there is in fact an advantage to a wordless Anthem. Add to that that some nations do in fact have wordless Anthems. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 To be fair though, whereas the Star Spangled banner has but one version, what if someone had risen up to sing:« O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. » Remember, Canada has two official versions, so from that standpoint, there is in fact an advantage to a wordless Anthem. Add to that that some nations do in fact have wordless Anthems. Ours does have words though. 2 sets, as you pointed out (3, if you include the bilingual version). Is it too much to ask someone to sing it? Sheryl Crow could have done both, or they could have brought in another singer... French, English... either works. Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
Machjo Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 Ours does have words though. 2 sets, as you pointed out (3, if you include the bilingual version). Is it too much to ask someone to sing it? Sheryl Crow could have done both, or they could have brought in another singer... French, English... either works. Just a correction here: bilingual versionS. I'd once heard, for instance: O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, True patriot love in all thy sons command. Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. Now I don't know if the student in question intended to mock it, but you'll notice that as much as possible it was always the more controversial verses that were chosen from each. Anyway, I do agree that whether it have lyrics or not, it should not just be played from a CD. It should either be sung live or played live, either way. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 By the way, instrumental versions of Oh Canada do exist, at least one having even been produced by the Federal Government itself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0jhJA1Hjxk Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Ours does have words though. 2 sets, as you pointed out (3, if you include the bilingual version). Is it too much to ask someone to sing it? Sheryl Crow could have done both, or they could have brought in another singer... French, English... either works. Having Sheryl Crow sing any version of the Canadian anthem would only cause another round of controversy. That's why I don't understand why a qualified Canadian wasn't volunteered or enlisted. Hell, I'd rather see / hear Shania Twain sing over Cheryl Crow anyday! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
lily Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Having Sheryl Crow sing any version of the Canadian anthem would only cause another round of controversy. That's why I don't understand why a qualified Canadian wasn't volunteered or enlisted. Why? Quote I'll rise, but I won't shine.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Why? Why? One reason would be her strong opposition to bopping cute baby seals on the head. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Machjo Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 Why? One reason would be her strong opposition to bopping cute baby seals on the head. This is what I mean when I say the Anthem has lost all meaning. It shouldn't be about threatening to kill those who change the school policy, and it certainly shouldn't be about bopping baby seals on the head. One should sing Oh Canada as a sign of his love for the country, as a sign of his patriotism. In a sense, it's like prayer. One prays out of deep conviction with personal significance to him, but does not force it on others, satisfying himself that others will remain respectfully silent. The same should apply with the Anthem. It has nothing to do with who's the PM, or whether we like him, or whether we agree with the country's policies. A person could oppose certain policies of the government's yet still love Canada. I disagree with Official Bilingualism, I'm vegan too, so should I refuse to sing Oh Canada until everyone stops eating meat? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Smallc Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 This is the way that the anthem is often sung, and it's probably the best way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lY3YZPcw8...feature=related Quote
Machjo Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Posted July 29, 2009 This is the way that the anthem is often sung, and it's probably the best way:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lY3YZPcw8...feature=related Strictly speaking, both versions are equally official and there is no official rule concerning mixing them, thus allowing us to mix them as we see fit. However, you're version is the recommended bilingual version of heritage Canada: http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/symbl/anthem-eng.cfm It's interesting to note too that Heritage Canada also includes an instrumental version on its website. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Smallc Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 instrumental versions are almost always used at state events. Quote
Smallc Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 However, you're version is the recommended bilingual version of heritage Canada: It's now the version that is most often used at any event where it is officially sung...i think it should be the preferred version for any event really. It says something about Canada. Quote
Machjo Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Posted July 29, 2009 It's now the version that is most often used at any event where it is officially sung...i think it should be the preferred version for any event really. It says something about Canada. I was just pointing out that there is no official bilingual version, leaving it up to us to decide how to mix the verses, the Heritage Canada version being but a recommended one; I did not intend to suggest that we should not use the recommended one. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that Heritage Canada go one step further by having but one official version, that being the bilingual version Heritage Canada now recommends, and that it make the current official versions but unofficial recommended unilingual versions. One country, one official Anthem, all others being unofficial but free to be used at will. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
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