Muslim Honor Killing in Kingston

[lily]

It's a fine example. Unless you'd like to say we either still cross examin rape victims or HANG witches. Both are part of the past.

We don't still cross examine rape victims... but since we did as recently as the 70s, the attitudes remain.

Which was the point.

[CANADIEN]

We don't still cross examine rape victims... but since we did as recently as the 70s, the attitudes remain.

Which was the point.

There have been legal challenges to the rape shield laws in canada and the US in this millenium. Some attitudes are still there.

[DogOnPorch]

We don't still cross examine rape victims... but since we did as recently as the 70s, the attitudes remain.

Which was the point.

They still believe in witches in some of the countries we import Canadians from...in this case South Afrika: July 26th, 2009.

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=331945

They burn 'em, too.

Albinos in Africa have it the worst, apparently...witch-wise. July 23rd, 2009.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8166273.stm

Ah...leftards. So sure they're always right...lol.

[lily]

They still believe in witches in some of the countries we import Canadians from...in this case South Afrika: July 26th, 2009.

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=331945

They burn 'em, too.

Albinos in Africa have it the worst, apparently...witch-wise. July 23rd, 2009.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8166273.stm

Ah...leftards. So sure they're always right...lol.

Nice strawman.

[DogOnPorch]

Boy, I bet those witches would really go-up fast with yea olde tire full of gas! I wonder if the whole villiage watches as well? No worries...we're safe here in Canada. No superstitions...no backwards cultural practices...certainly no witches.

Nice strawman.

Are you one? I'm sorry...I didn't know.

[lily]

Boy, I bet those witches would really go-up fast with yea olde tire full of gas! I wonder if the whole villiage watches as well? No worries...we're safe here in Canada. No superstitions...no backwards cultural practices...certainly no witches.

Are you one? I'm sorry...I didn't know.

All right. I'll play along.

What do witches in the 17th century have to do with rape victims in the 20th century and attitudes today?

[DogOnPorch]

All right. I'll play along.

What do witches in the 17th century have to do with rape victims in the 20th century and attitudes today?

Well apparently somewhere on the planet they still burn witches and no doubt cross examine rape victims...providing they don't kill her for bringing shame to her family. Why would we want to import either into Canada?

Edited July 27, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[lily]

Yeah.... it's as I htought.

Strawman.

[Smallc]

Straw men burn easily.

Sorry, Benny moment.

[DogOnPorch]

Straw men burn easily.

Sorry, Benny moment.

lol

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah.... it's as I htought.

Strawman.

Bah...I'm sure you're OK in person.

[benny]

Honor killings in Kingston!? Kings may kill some of their children for power purposes.

[JB Globe]

Because we imported this problem and allowed to fester through this "we are the world" communist thinking and now the Canadian people are at risk due to it. This is why I have such a problem with it.

When you say "Canadian people" you mean "White Christian Canadians" - I wasn't aware that White Christian Canadians are at risk of honour killings at the hands of Muslim-Canadians.

You learn something new everyday.

Multiculturalism isn't working and now people are dying.

Sorry, but this one exceedingly rare phenomenon does not mean "Multiculturalism isn't working" Show me which countries do immigration better than Canada. And by better I mean integration.

And like I said earlier, "honour killings" (or rather, when Muslim parents murder their children) are about as common as when white Christian Canadians murder their children, so why do you only get hysterical when the perps are Muslim?

Edited July 27, 2009 by JB Globe

[JB Globe]

Others have said clearly why the "let's ban all Muslim immigration" is a bad idea. I will not repeat their logical arguments, but I'll add another one.

Experience with generation after generation of immigrants show that every new group meets with distrusts, when it is not just plain hatred, that about every societal ill is blamed on them. More importantly, experience has shown that the children and the grandchildren of immigrants have more often than not integrated our society. When that has not happened, economic conditions (poverty) and discrimination is more often than not the reason.

Large scale Muslim immigration is a recent phenomenum. It is too soon for any claim that the second and third generation will not integrate into Canadian society.

Of course, they will be some that will say that their attitudes and values are too far away from those of most Canadians. the same was said about past groups of immigrants. And quite frankly, there is not much difference between those and some of the attitudes and values advocated in forums like this.

OF COURSE, this is not to say that we should just let anyone and everyone enter the best country on Earth. Those who have committed crimes have no place here. Those who publicly advocate crimes do not either.

I'll cosign this. Two years ago I was producing and researching a documentary that is part of an educational unit for Ontario high schools on immigration. The research I did pretty much spelled out your points here. You wouldn't believe the kind of crap that was written about Jews, Poles and Italians back in the 1940's in newspapers. It reads like some of these diatribes against Muslims today. There were all kinds of unsubstantiated chicken-little predictions about the fall of Canadian society. All this talk about the inferiority and unadaptability of "those people" - they even cited the existence of Jewish neighourhoods (Kensington Market) and Jewish schools as evidence that Jews would never integrate, and thus we should shut off immigration.

It's interesting to reflect back on how things were, and realize that there have always been White Nationalists in Canada. What's scary is to think what if Canada had caved in to their demands? Where would we be now if we had blocked all kinds of non-European-Anglo-Protestant immigration? What makes the current crop any different from the past? Their xenophobia is still trying to hold back this nation because they're incapable of living in an integrated society.

[benny]

I'll cosign this. Two years ago I was producing and researching a documentary that is part of an educational unit for Ontario high schools on immigration. The research I did pretty much spelled out your points here. You wouldn't believe the kind of crap that was written about Jews, Poles and Italians back in the 1940's in newspapers. It reads like some of these diatribes against Muslims today. There were all kinds of unsubstantiated chicken-little predictions about the fall of Canadian society. All this talk about the inferiority and unadaptability of "those people" - they even cited the existence of Jewish neighourhoods (Kensington Market) and Jewish schools as evidence that Jews would never integrate, and thus we should shut off immigration.

It's interesting to reflect back on how things were, and realize that there have always been White Nationalists in Canada. What's scary is to think what if Canada had caved in to their demands? Where would we be now if we had blocked all kinds of non-European-Anglo-Protestant immigration? What makes the current crop any different from the past? Their xenophobia is still trying to hold back this nation because they're incapable of living in an integrated society.

Just like conservative people have more difficulties coping with disorder than other people, I think xenophobes are less capable of living in a society not perfectly integrated than other people.

[Moxie]

In NIgera several women were recently butchered by the Islamist for allegedly being witches.

Quote: Their xenophobia is still trying to hold back this nation because they're incapable of living in an integrated society.

Whom are you calling xenophobic? Is it acceptable for the Islamist to espouse our culture is filthy and vile? Is acceptable for them to refuse to allow their children to integrate and become members of Canadian Culture and if they do they could face death? Is it xenophobic to resist Sharia Law Light? As per the norm the majority are called names but those that espouse outright hatred of the West's Culture via the Islamist are patted on the head with the usual sniveling appeasement. I'd rather be labeled a zenophobe by the perpetually offended than watch gender equality be eroded by the perpetually sniveling easy to offend group. I suggest you read Fatah Tareks "Chasing a Mirage" in one chapter he describes a conference that he went to where the guest speaker chanted "Death to the West" and the audience joined in. They don't mind enjoying all our liberties whilst plotting our demise, funny the women are denied all the benifits of the 21st century but the males are denied nothing.

I'm going to keep saying the following: When Mosque stop selling books on "How to beat your wife" I'll consider Honour Killings non-Islamic. When Mosque stop segregating women I'll consider Islam to be worthy of being labeled a female gender friendly religion. Until then it's a misogynistic religion that is dangerous to gender equality in Canada allowing Muslim women to be treated as second class citizens lest we offend the socialist is assine.

[Smallc]

When the Catholic Church stops segregating women, I'll consider them worthy of being labeled a female gender friendly religion. The reality is, there are inequalities in every religion. It's not a good thing, and in places where islam is practiced it is especially bad, but we don't need to blow the threat of honour killings in Canada out of proportion. Should we tolerate it? No. Am I going to lay awake at night worrying about it (again, in Canada)? No.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding between some cultures in the east and west, and that problem needs to be addressed, but pointing the finger at the east and blaming them for everything isn't going to help one bit.

[benny]

When the Catholic Church stops segregating women, I'll consider them worthy of being labeled a female gender friendly religion. The reality is, there are inequalities in every religion. It's not a good thing, and in places where islam is practiced it is especially bad, but we don't need to blow the threat of honour killings in Canada out of proportion. Should we tolerate it? No. Am I going to lay awake at night worrying about it (again, in Canada)? No.

It is not a religious matter, it is a genetic matter. Look how primates protect their harems.

[DogOnPorch]

When the Catholic Church stops segregating women, I'll consider them worthy of being labeled a female gender friendly religion. The reality is, there are inequalities in every religion. It's not a good thing, and in places where islam is practiced it is especially bad, but we don't need to blow the threat of honour killings in Canada out of proportion. Should we tolerate it? No. Am I going to lay awake at night worrying about it (again, in Canada)? No.

Hi Smallc

Well...no need to worry yet. Muslims make up only a small percentage of Canada's population at the moment. When it reaches double-digets, I predict a change in tone.

Do the western branches of the Catholic church still segragate women during a service? I thought men and women went to the same service...sat together, etc. I'll take your word for it that they do segregate the congregation....I just thought they were pretty much like any church, seating-wise.

I'd like them to allow birth control and women priests (et al)...but I don't think the current Pope is interested. Maybe I'm wrong...

There is a fundamental misunderstanding between some cultures in the east and west, and that problem needs to be addressed, but pointing the finger at the east and blaming them for everything isn't going to help one bit.

Maybe not, but we ignore those elements in Islam that seek our downfall at our own peril. It also views itself as the final word on the whole "God/Allah" question...which seems to indicate that intollerance has been built into the mandate. I find it downright suspicious that Saudi Arabia funds the construction of mosques in the West while forbidding other religions to do like-wise on their turf. So what's the deal there?

[Bonam]

When the Catholic Church stops segregating women, I'll consider them worthy of being labeled a female gender friendly religion. The reality is, there are inequalities in every religion.

As people have said over and over, it's not a matter of religion, it's more a matter of culture. For many from Muslim countries, their culture (which includes both the religion of Islam as well as other factors) may condone the types of activities being described in this thread. Now for people the vast majority of people that are nominally Catholics or other types of Christians, the religion and the standards it has makes up only a tiny aspect of their culture. Even if some Catholic churches still condone segregation, a culture of segregation certainly is not the norm in Western societies.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding between some cultures in the east and west, and that problem needs to be addressed, but pointing the finger at the east and blaming them for everything isn't going to help one bit.

No one is blaming "them" for "everything". Blame is only assigned for things that "they" are actually at fault for, in this case honor killings.

[Smallc]

DOP, you knew that I meant the segregation happened in the clergy I think. But you're both right, we can't ignore the problems that exist and we have to work to eliminate them. I'm not defending what anyone did, but I don't like the attitude that some have in relation to cultures that they often don't understand at all....and that's not to say that those cultures are right.

[benny]

DOP, you knew that I meant the segregation happened in the clergy I think. But you're both right, we can't ignore the problems that exist and we have to work to eliminate them. I'm not defending what anyone did, but I don't like the attitude that some have in relation to cultures that they often don't understand at all....and that's not to say that those cultures are right.

Before blaming religions, you have to get a rosy image of what would look like our lives if these religions would never have regulated our behaviors.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Before blaming religions, you have to get a rosy image of what would look like our lives if these religions would never have regulated our behaviors.

You mean all of the killing sprees that religion has caused. You realize that billions have died at the hands of religion and their misguided minions. The greatest case of gross manipulation to ever transgress against society was at the hands of religious nutcases. That is not to say they are all nutcases, it does make a great case for the separation of church and state, as well as making a case for keeping the moralistic views of religious folks the hell away from politics in general.

[benny]

You mean all of the killing sprees that religion has caused. You realize that billions have died at the hands of religion and their misguided minions. The greatest case of gross manipulation to ever transgress against society was at the hands of religious nutcases. That is not to say they are all nutcases, it does make a great case for the separation of church and state, as well as making a case for keeping the moralistic views of religious folks the hell away from politics in general.

We owe the separation of church and state to Christianity.

[Guest TrueMetis]

We owe the separation of church and state to Christianity.

I thought we owed it to the kings who wanted more power.