Looks like even the Progressive bloggers

[punked]

At has taken some progressive bloggers a while to dig through all the stuff on IIgnatieff but they are coming out and finding some of the things he has said to be quite disturbing.

The fact is that Mr. Ignatieff has said many, many things that are, quite frankly, quite counter to the traditions of his party. I also pointed out yesterday that thanks to his higher-than-normal profile in his pre-political life, there is a lot more quotes out there, giving their opponents lots of ammunition to work with. Because of that, many a person has been doing their homework on Mr. Ignatieff’s past, and late last week we saw more fruit from those labours

http://cameronholmstrom.blogspot.com/2009/...ieffs-past.html

I have seen this all over the progressive blogs this week.

[kimmy]

At has taken some progressive bloggers a while to dig through all the stuff on IIgnatieff but they are coming out and finding some of the things he has said to be quite disturbing.

http://cameronholmstrom.blogspot.com/2009/...ieffs-past.html

I have seen this all over the progressive blogs this week.

People who have been on this forum for any length of time know very well that I am among the last people who would be a shill or an apologist for the Liberal Party of Canada. My reaction to all things LPC is generally among mistrust, cynicism, antipathy, or blind irrational hatred.

However, this Michael Ignatieff continues to be a man I will definitely consider giving my vote to when the next election comes around. And these quotes do nothing to change that.

Yet Michael Ignatieff, Harvard professor and public intellectual, was once slightly more harsh toward his native land. Following a 2005 lecture at the University of Dublin’s Trinity College, Ignatieff excoriated Canadians for trading on Canada’s “entirely bogus reputation as peacekeepers” for 40 years and for favouring “hospitals and schools and roads” over international citizenship.

I don't know if our reputation as peacekeepers is "entirely bogus", but I am quite sure that it is of far less importance around the world than it is to our collective national self-esteem.

“If you are a human rights defender and you want something done to stop [a] massacre, you have to go to the Pentagon, because no one else is serious,” Ignatieff said.

He missed a great example-- Australia's intervention in East Timor is an example of a time when somebody other than the Americans put forth the military effort in the cause of justice.

Overall, though, I think he makes a good point.

I think he makes a good point. There are situations where providing human security requires military capability... and few countries aside from the United States have the capability to do so.

“It’s disgusting in my own country, and I love my country, Canada, but they would rather bitch about their rich neighbour to the south than actually pay the note,” he said, in response to a question about peacekeeping. “To pay the bill to be an international citizen is not something that they want to do.”

I think that most Canadians want us to live up to commitments we make. Whether that be military (participating in NATO operations, for instance) or humanitarian (having the transport capability to get aid to disaster areas, for instance) we should have the capability to do the things that we as a nation promise other countries we will do.

-k

[punked]

People who have been on this forum for any length of time know very well that I am among the last people who would be a shill or an apologist for the Liberal Party of Canada. My reaction to all things LPC is generally among mistrust, cynicism, antipathy, or blind irrational hatred.

You are not part of the progressives Ignatieff needs to show at the polls to win. It is great for the Liberals to get conservative votes but if the progressives stay home it will be all for naught.

[kimmy]

You are not part of the progressives Ignatieff needs to show at the polls to win. It is great for the Liberals to get conservative votes but if the progressives stay home it will be all for naught.

I think you overestimate how much of a factor the "progressives" really are at the polls.

All the Liberals really need to do to win the next election is to win back all the former supporters who they drove to the Conservatives, and all the people who used to vote Liberal but have been staying home on election night because they didn't like any of the choices.

-k

[punked]

I think you overestimate how much of a factor the "progressives" really are at the polls.

All the Liberals really need to do to win the next election is to win back all the former supporters who they drove to the Conservatives, and all the people who used to vote Liberal but have been staying home on election night because they didn't like any of the choices.

-k

All the people who vote Liberal becuase "the NDP just can't win" will just stay home too or actually vote NDP if the Liberals turn into the conservatives. Problem is the Liberals are the big tent and in being the big tent you can't just throw the votes of one group out. They are the group who has been the Liberal base which support has been built on for the last 15 years too. Honestly they need them.

[Shady]

Overall, though, I think he makes a good point.

I think he makes a good point. There are situations where providing human security requires military capability... and few countries aside from the United States have the capability to do so.

I agree. I'm not a huge Ignatieff fan, but he's absolutely right. Apparently telling the truth, turns off "progressives." I say too bad. Everyone should have to live in reality and not some make-believe progressive fantasy world.

[Smallc]

I think he's right.

[punked]

Worked so well in Iraq right?

[Smallc]

Well he is right to some extent. I don't think that he gives some countries (France, Italy, Spain, Canada, ect.) enough credit as we do spend a great deal on defense and security. That said, we should do more, but the problem is prioritizing these expenses and deciding what to give up so that we can have more push power. There are situations where only armed force is the answer, even if it isn't always the answer.

[punked]

Well he is right to some extent. I don't think that he gives some countries (France, Italy, Spain, Canada, ect.) enough credit as we do spend a great deal on defense and security. That said, we should do more, but the problem is prioritizing these expenses and deciding what to give up so that we can have more push power. There are situations where only armed force is the answer, even if it isn't always the answer.

The problem is if you spend a lot on the military you want to use them. I am ok with spending on defence but I think we really need to weigh our options before we head straight into war. After Mr. Ignatieff very poor judgement on Iraq I am not ready to give him the means to be the one to make those decisions. After those types of mistakes I don't think he gets to lecture us on going to war.