DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 In the exact situation of Gaza, blockaded, what would/could you do? Join the Israelis. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Join the Israelis. Islam understandably forbids bowing like that in front of invaders. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Islam understandably forbids bowing like that in front of invaders. Then Islam should get back to Arabia and hand over all the land they captured. Dropping their false religious claim to Jerusalem would be a great start and show their sincerity towards living with others in peace. However, Islam's stated goal is to turn us all into good little robots, bowing 5 times a day towards an old meteor found in the desert. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Then Islam should get back to Arabia and hand over all the land they captured. Dropping their false religious claim to Jerusalem would be a great start and show their sincerity towards living with others in peace. However, Islam's stated goal is to turn us all into good little robots, bowing 5 times a day towards an old meteor found in the desert. Islam was invented as a reaction and resistance to Christian invasions in Arabia. Quote
tango Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Israel erected this wall in order to enhance their security which it did. They have the power to raise it, lower it, build it bigger or take it down completely. Don't you think that just possibly you might consider their point of view in this issue? Just a little maybe? You have said the key words: "They have the power" Absolutely correct. Israel has all the power to change the situation. ONLY Israel has the power to change the situation. How do you make a wall high enough to prevent rockets? You can't. Thus, the wall is not the answer. How do you terrorize a population enough to prevent any teenage radical from ever firing a homemade rocket over "the wall"? You can't. Thus siege and terrorism is not the answer. I respect Israel's right to security and peace. I would like to see that very much, but this way simply won't work - it's a bitter standoff and the people of Gaza have nowhere to withdraw to so in reality, only Israel can change the present situation. Only Israel, too, can create a new vision of its future: Is "a Jewish state", even one with security walls, even feasible in today's 'globalized' world? What about the rights of the Arab minority? What about the rights of those forced from their homes and homeland? I know the whole situation isn't simple at all. But taking it in small steps ... right now it is Israel ... and only Israel ... that has the power to take the first step in a new direction. As a youth, along with much of the world, I cheered Israel's growing military might - a persecuted people with no homeland finding their feet, standing up to persecuters on their own land. Heady stuff! But when the persecuted become the persecuters ... perceptions change. And that's what's happened this year. It has become obvious to the whole world that Israel has continued on a path that is no longer tenable. I am constantly reminded of a story I read (here?) about some Israeli soldiers visiting Canada, taken on a boat ride by Jewish Canadian hosts, where a conversation about wildlife took place: Host: Is there much wildlife left in Israel? Soldier: Well, there's still a few Palestinians running around! (Soldiers dissolve in laughter. Hosts and other guests finish the boat ride in uncomfortable silence.) I don't blame soldiers. I never blame soldiers. But that's the 'culture' they are provided with. Palestinians are animals: Kill them on sight. It's not right, and it isn't defensible. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Islam was invented as a reaction and resistance to Christian invasions in Arabia. lol...it most certainly wasn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 lol...it most certainly wasn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam What about a link on the much older and thorough spread of Christianity rather!? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 What about a link on the much older and thorough spread of Christianity rather!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 How do you make a wall high enough to prevent rockets? You can't. Actually, laser defense systems should be ready for use around 2010 and deployed along the borders in the following years. Thereafter, rockets, missiles, and artillery will be shot down before they can hit anything on the ground in Israel. What will the Palestinians do once they can't target Israeli civilians any more? Quote
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tourshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel Paul the Apostle: http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n79-64565 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Paul didn't carry a scimitar. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Actually, laser defense systems should be ready for use around 2010 and deployed along the borders in the following years. Thereafter, rockets, missiles, and artillery will be shot down before they can hit anything on the ground in Israel. What will the Palestinians do once they can't target Israeli civilians any more? Agreement. This system is like a mini-version of the US system. Pretty cool, really. Shooting down katushyas...who would have thought it possible? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Paul didn't carry a scimitar. A cross is more lethal. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 A cross is more lethal. Here...let's test. Stick out your neck. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Here...let's test. Stick out your neck. You like history, use it as test. Quote
Bonam Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 Agreement. This system is like a mini-version of the US system. Pretty cool, really. Shooting down katushyas...who would have thought it possible? It's definitely very cool. Here's a video of the MTHEL/skyguard (US-Israeli partnership) version testing a few years back: Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 It's definitely very cool. Here's a video of the MTHEL/skyguard (US-Israeli partnership) version testing a few years back: Well THAT was frickin' awesome. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 You like history, use it as test. I did. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 It's definitely very cool. Here's a video of the MTHEL/skyguard (US-Israeli partnership) version testing a few years back: After defamation, intimidation. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 After defamation, intimidation. careful...benny runs to teacher and tells. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
benny Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 careful...benny runs to teacher and tells. I'm running for PM office. Quote
Argus Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) Until the maximum security 'wall' is opened, they can't be peaceful: Their children are starving and dying from lack of supplies due to the siege. No, actually they aren't. Do you really think Egypt would maintain a blockade if Arab kids were starving? Get real. The living situation of the people is untenable, and will continue to give rise to opposition.Who would do any different in their place? And yet, when Israel took over there was a huge leap in the standard of living, in educational levels, in health care. Palestinian Arabs saw their economic situation rise well above that of other Arabs. Then came the intifada, and endless suicide attacks on Israel. Israeli businessmen stopped investing in anything on Palestinian lands. They stopped hiring Palestinian employees because either they were afraid they would explode, or they were unreliable because the violence kept closing the border. Palestinians' standard of living plummeted and the unemployment rate skyrocketed. Edited July 19, 2009 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dub Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 No, actually they aren't. Do you really think Egypt would maintain a blockade if Arab kids were starving? Get real. i do believe that egypt's blockade should be talked about more. but i guess since it was a request from the U.S. (and the israeli lobby in the US government), you're not going to see much focus on egypt's assistance to continue this punishment on the gaza pppulation. but don't pretend that it's just the israeli border that israel is controlling. they're also controlling the water and the air. they've stopped and seized numerous humanitarian ships that are trying to get to gaza. it doesn't make you look good when you apologize for israel's violation of human rights. And yet, when Israel took over there was a huge leap in the standard of living, in educational levels, in health care. Palestinian Arabs saw their economic situation rise well above that of other Arabs. it also doesn't make you look good for making stuff up. Then came the intifada, and endless suicide attacks on Israel. Israeli businessmen stopped investing in anything on Palestinian lands. They stopped hiring Palestinian employees because either they were afraid they would explode, or they were unreliable because the violence kept closing the border. Palestinians' standard of living plummeted and the unemployment rate skyrocketed. you seem to mention the suicide attacks quite often. even though the last to happen was years ago. we also don't have any rocket attacks coming from the west bank either. so what's the reason you're still apologizing for israel's behaviour which includes the expanding of the illegal settlements? Quote
tango Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 No, actually they aren't. Do you really think Egypt would maintain a blockade if Arab kids were starving? Get real. Chronic malnutrition in Gaza blamed on Israel Donald Macintyre reveals the contents of an explosive report by the Red Cross on a humanitarian tragedy Saturday, 15 November 2008 The Red Cross says the diets of those living in the impoverished Gaza Strip are deteriorating AFP/GETTY/MAHMUD HAMS The Red Cross says the diets of those living in the impoverished Gaza Strip are deteriorating The Israeli blockade of Gaza has led to a steady rise in chronic malnutrition among the 1.5 million people living in the strip, according to a leaked report from the Red Cross. It chronicles the "devastating" effect of the siege that Israel imposed after Hamas seized control in June 2007 and notes that the dramatic fall in living standards has triggered a shift in diet that will damage the long-term health of those living in Gaza and has led to alarming deficiencies in iron, vitamin A and vitamin D. And yet, when Israel took over there was a huge leap in the standard of living, in educational levels, in health care. Palestinian Arabs saw their economic situation rise well above that of other Arabs. Irrelevant. Palestinians, like all peoples, have a right to self-determination, not occupation. It's just silly to think "They should WANT us to take over!" That's exactly like USians saying Canada should WANT to be part of the US. (manifest destiny ) Not interested. Ain't going to happen. fugoff USA. Obviously, Palestinians feel the same about Israel. And realistically ... they've been driven from their former homes, found new ones, and here comes Israel again to drive them out again, and they are supposed to welcome it? Gazans are forced to resist is because they are surrounded and no longer have anywhere to move to. I can't believe you actually think Palestinians should want to be ruled by Israel. Are you truly serious about that? Because that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in these threads. Do you have any understanding of human nature and human rights at all? Get real! Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Bonam Posted July 19, 2009 Report Posted July 19, 2009 And realistically ... they've been driven from their former homes, found new ones, and here comes Israel again to drive them out again, and they are supposed to welcome it?Gazans are forced to resist is because they are surrounded and no longer have anywhere to move to. What? Who is driving Palestinians out of Gaza? Quit making crap up. In case your knowledge of the facts is really this badly deficient, I'll help you out: Israel pulled out of Gaza and left the area for the sole habitation of Palestinians. No one is colonizing Gaza. There are no settlements in Gaza. The only organization to drive any Palestinians out of Gaza was Hamas, when they took over. They brutally executed Fatah supporters they could find, and others fled through Israel to the West Bank. Quote
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