Ignatieff and Alberta

[geoffrey]

Well... Calgary actually IS a radical ideological world, very atypical of Canada as a whole, and at the very outside edge of the normal political spectrum.

True, if your from Toronto. But there is a Canada outside of the 416/905 area codes hey. Maybe you should become better acquanted with it. Or not. The Liberals certainly don't.

Let's see... the radicals seem to be the Liberals. They only win seats in three cities! And have a lower share of the vote. So they are the outlier. The weirdos. Whatever you want to call them. Certainly not Canadian to the rest of us that exist outside of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

[ToadBrother]

True, if your from Toronto. But there is a Canada outside of the 416/905 area codes hey. Maybe you should become better acquanted with it. Or not. The Liberals certainly don't.

Let's see... the radicals seem to be the Liberals. They only win seats in three cities! And have a lower share of the vote. So they are the outlier. The weirdos. Whatever you want to call them. Certainly not Canadian to the rest of us that exist outside of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Oh come on, Calgary is radical by much of Canada's standards. There are some spats, like the Fraser Valley, where you can find similar ideological extremes, but all in all, no, the rest of the country does not share their extremer more Libertarian views. Mind you, if the price of oil stays suppressed, I suspect you won't find many people in Calgary who have that view either.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Oh come on, Calgary is radical by much of Canada's standards. There are some spats, like the Fraser Valley, where you can find similar ideological extremes, but all in all, no, the rest of the country does not share their extremer more Libertarian views. Mind you, if the price of oil stays suppressed, I suspect you won't find many people in Calgary who have that view either.

Calgary radical? Pray tell, in what possible way?

What Calgary is a a bastion of corporate profit seekers. The city is home to numerous large corporations and a majority of Canadian energy companies. Virtually all of these corporate interests have little concern for social issues or the environment. Their concern is for their business interests and profit. They dislike unions, thumb their noses at the tree-hugging socialists and focus on tax breaks and incentives for business.

Nothing new in that city. They vote conservative at the drop of a hat pin on a regular basis. It is a fallacy to portray these corporate interests as libertarian by any stretch of the imagination. They want and desire cooperative governments to do business with and they do not want less government or legislation but instead more friendly bureaucrats and destitute politicians to put on the payroll to legislate in their best interests. Calgary probably funds as many lobbyists' as the entire province of Ontario. They do desire less regulations because those are viewed as an impediment to the pursuit of profit, but to attribute the term libertarian to an non-living legal entity is nothing less than an ideological tribute to the demons of capitalism.

Don't get me wrong, capitalism is THE ONLY way to go, but unchecked and under-regulated industries have in the past sometimes proven to be detrimental to the best interests of the public.

The price of oil is a real question mark, being basically controlled by the OPEC nations of the middle-east. Oil is a real issue for Albertans because the new Obama government may well compel Alberta to seek alternative markets for increased production being brought on line in the oil sands. Saskatchewan is about to step into the same effort, and those numbers have yet to be accurately set, but you can figure at least 1 million bpd within the next decade. That will take us to roughly 4 million bpd between the two provinces. While the Americans need the oil, and we all the largest importer to that nation, the tree huggers may end up having a say after all and we may be discussing the NAFTA issue regarding cuts to the supply.

[Molly]

Geoffry, I lived in Calgary for several years, and in ranchland/oilpatch for many, many more. It's not as though I don't know whereof I speak. And I didn't make the comment as a criticism, because I happen to like and share many elements of the Calgary perspective.... but anyone who suggests that the Calgary approach to life is typical, or 'non-radical', is dreaming, whether they live in Calgary, or Toronto, or in Timbuktu!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Geoffry, I lived in Calgary for several years, and in ranchland/oilpatch for many, many more. It's not as though I don't know whereof I speak. And I didn't make the comment as a criticism, because I happen to like and share many elements of the Calgary perspective.... but anyone who suggests that the Calgary approach to life is typical, or 'non-radical', is dreaming, whether they live in Calgary, or Toronto, or in Timbuktu!

Well Molly just what is so different about Calgary?

[noahbody]

Geoffry, I lived in Calgary for several years,

How long ago? Was it around the time of the NEP by chance?

It's not as though I don't know whereof I speak.

Someone who last saw the Leafs play in '67 might believe they're a great team.

but anyone who suggests that the Calgary approach to life is typical, or 'non-radical', is dreaming, whether they live in Calgary, or Toronto, or in Timbuktu!

Please explain this radical approach to life. Do you mean going to school, getting a job and getting divorced? Calgary is typical million+ city comprised of people from all over Canada and the world. One in every 4.5 Calgarians is a visible minority.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

How long ago? Was it around the time of the NEP by chance?

Someone who last saw the Leafs play in '67 might believe they're a great team.

Please explain this radical approach to life. Do you mean going to school, getting a job and getting divorced? Calgary is typical million+ city comprised of people from all over Canada and the world. One in every 4.5 Calgarians is a visible minority.

Exactly.

[punked]

One in every 4.5 Calgarians is a visible minority.

And 1/3 of visible minorities that live in Calgary live in poverty but who is counting.

[Smallc]

Calgary is a very conservative city. That isn't typical in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

And 1/3 of visible minorities that live in Calgary live in poverty but who is counting.

So where do 1/3 of the non "visible minorities" live in poverty?

[Molly]

LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_fede...ults_in_Calgary

"Calgary is, by far, the most conservative major city in Canada. This political leaning goes back to the days prior to Alberta's creation as a province, when ..."

So what part of "by far" don't you guys understand? WTF? Have you never _been_ to Calgary?

Or is the word 'radical' the problem?

"rad·i·cal (rd-kl)

adj.

1. Arising from or going to a root or source; basic: proposed a radical solution to the problem.

2. Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme: radical opinions on education.

..."

Edited July 6, 2009 by Molly

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Calgary actually IS a radical ideological world,

A radical ideological world.

So in your view;

1) Conservatism is radical

2) Calgary is a world unto itself

Conservatives and Calgary folks are beginning to sound rather full of themselves of late. That would explain Harper though come to think of it.

The idea that conservatism is radical may make sense in a pro-labour environment or a Liberal hotbed region, but to make that suggestion in Alberta is pretty funny. If you are from Alberta then you can understand the attitude though, Calgary is well known for its elitist self concern.

[Smallc]

Calgary is radical in terns of Canadian politics. It's that simple.

[Craig1]

What I did like about Iggy's speach is how he Talked about sending Alberta's bitumen east for refining instead of shipping "top soil" south of the border like we ( Alberta) do now. I think it is smart to create Canadian jobs and to have the ability to export finished products being gasoline, diesel , polyethaline etc. it could also help sustain a more advanced manufacturing sector as we won't need to rely so much on importing we can focus more on exporting.

[noahbody]

"Calgary is, by far, the most conservative major city in Canada. This political leaning goes back to the days prior to Alberta's creation as a province, when ..."

So what part of "by far" don't you guys understand? WTF?

What part of "Wiikipedia" don't you understand? Sure you can find some fact on it such as "Calgary CMA is the third most diverse in Canada in terms of visible minorities after Toronto and Vancouver when considering only CMAs with population greater than 200,000.[4]" You can also read "Calgary's urban scene has changed considerably since the beginning of the city's rapid growth. It is also starting to become recognized as one of Canada's most diverse cities."

And yes you can read what you quoted. What "by far" means is that the author doesn't recognize Edmonton as a major city. In reality, that statement is false.

The author also doesn't consider that Calgarians might be anti-liberal party. They are to be defined by the party they vote for. In that case, everyone who votes for the Bloc is a separatist. That's radical.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Calgary is radical in terns of Canadian politics. It's that simple.

It is not! That is like saying anywhere where a vote is constant is a radical location.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What I did like about Iggy's speach is how he Talked about sending Alberta's bitumen east for refining instead of shipping "top soil" south of the border like we ( Alberta) do now. I think it is smart to create Canadian jobs and to have the ability to export finished products being gasoline, diesel , polyethaline etc. it could also help sustain a more advanced manufacturing sector as we won't need to rely so much on importing we can focus more on exporting.

Special Ed, our wise leader still hasn't figured out that the only smart move is to refine everything here and slap another tax on unrefined products for export.

[Smallc]

It is not! That is like saying anywhere where a vote is constant is a radical location.

Most Canadians are centre to centre left, especially urban Canadians. Calgarians aren't. That isn't saying it's a bad thing, but it's acknowledging the reality that they are a radical group in Canadian politics.

[Dave_ON]

Most Canadians are centre to centre left, especially urban Canadians. Calgarians aren't. That isn't saying it's a bad thing, but it's acknowledging the reality that they are a radical group in Canadian politics.

I'm inclined to agree, not to mention if you wear a cowboy hat anywhere else in Canada it's either covered in sequins or rhinestones or you're attempting to be ironic. In Calgary it's normal.

[Smallc]

Well, I've also seen it done in Steinbach Manitoba, but then again that part south eastern Manitoba has much in common with Calgary and area.

[bush_cheney2004]

Most Canadians are centre to centre left, especially urban Canadians. Calgarians aren't. That isn't saying it's a bad thing, but it's acknowledging the reality that they are a radical group in Canadian politics.

So are those to the "far left" considered equally "radical" ?

[Smallc]

Yes. I don't think that there is a particular city in Canada though, that is primarily made up of that group.

[Molly]

Wow, what a silly tempest!

You'd think I said Calgarians eat roast kittens on a stick!

[Smallc]

Actually I've heard that they only eat puppies....raw.

[Molly]

Yes, but that's common. Not radical at all.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Molly