RAITT-GATE

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Like I said, this is an international issue. Having such a substantial part of a global supply of a rare commodity resting on just a few installations is inevitably going to lead to these situations. This is not Raitt's fault. It's a long-term flaw that is bigger than the person that the current PM tosses in charge of a portfolio. What can she do precisely? Keep a reactor going even when the experts are saying it's not a good idea?

I sympathize with her, and I'm certainly glad that tape recorders aren't running when I say stupid things. She's blundered, or rather a staffer has blundered, she's taking the heat, that's fine. But we would be in this boat right now if the Liberals were in power.

The reality is that in our system of government, ministers are first and foremost politicians. Condemning them for acting like politicians is like screaming at helium for being lighter than air. I suspect 95% of the people sitting in the House of Commons see everything through the political lens; "I'll look really great if I can solve this problem, so my constituents will vote for me, and the party leader will pat me on the back, and then I'll get out of this shitty committe/portfolio and into something much better."

Hey guy, I understand what you are saying, and I don't entirely disagree with you. The fact remains that on her watch we have had two problems with the same reactor. Now you can blame everyone under the sun, but the cold hard truth is that she is responsible for that reactor. We can honestly conclude that if the Liberals were in power it would be their problem, but they are not and it isn't. Sure you can say that in hindsight this could have been done and that could have been done, but in order to do that properly you would have to have some facts to back it up. Now to do that you would need some report that suggested that something actually needed to be done, the government presents no such case. So their defense on this issue is flawed and leaves them wide open. Had the Liberals been told that the reactor needed work, and they ignored the advice, well then you could hang them from a yardarm. That is not the case.

[Smallc]

The fact remains that on her watch we have had two problems with the same reactor.

Actually, we've only had one major problem under her watch.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Smallc

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Actually, we've only had one major problem under her watch.

I thought we had two, do you mean that she was not the boss during the first one?

[Smallc]

I thought we had two, do you mean that she was not the boss during the first one?

Gary Lunn was the minister during the first crisis. She was only elected last year.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Gary Lunn was the minister during the first crisis. She was only elected last year.

Well I stand corrected, let me rephrase.

The government had two crisis's with the same reactor in 18 months......

[ToadBrother]

Hey guy, I understand what you are saying, and I don't entirely disagree with you. The fact remains that on her watch we have had two problems with the same reactor. Now you can blame everyone under the sun, but the cold hard truth is that she is responsible for that reactor.

"Responsible for" is a loaded term. What precisely can she do? Reactors are complex technologies to repair and to build, so it's not like she can just wave a magic wand and all the problems disappear. This is a long-term supply issue, and the only way to fix it is either fix or replace the reactor, and to try to convince enough other countries to build more.

We can honestly conclude that if the Liberals were in power it would be their problem, but they are not and it isn't.

So, in fact, you're looking at it through the political lens as well.

Sure you can say that in hindsight this could have been done and that could have been done, but in order to do that properly you would have to have some facts to back it up. Now to do that you would need some report that suggested that something actually needed to be done, the government presents no such case. So their defense on this issue is flawed and leaves them wide open. Had the Liberals been told that the reactor needed work, and they ignored the advice, well then you could hang them from a yardarm. That is not the case.

The fundamental issue has been since the problems first came to light is that fixing the problem means shutting down the reactor for some period of time as well.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

"Responsible for" is a loaded term. What precisely can she do? Reactors are complex technologies to repair and to build, so it's not like she can just wave a magic wand and all the problems disappear. This is a long-term supply issue, and the only way to fix it is either fix or replace the reactor, and to try to convince enough other countries to build more.

She could be honest and say the reactor has gone for shit, and we need to do something about yesterday. She can say that this is happening on her watch and she knows what the consequences are if something doesn't get done immediately. She can say that she did not break the damned thing it broke on its own, but she is the person that has to get it fixed.

Layton said it right in question period. This was known five months ago, she never told anyone that she knew there was a problem. She said it was only a money problem, so why did she not do anything about it?

So, in fact, you're looking at it through the political lens as well.

This is a political forum, that discusses politics is it not?

The fundamental issue has been since the problems first came to light is that fixing the problem means shutting down the reactor for some period of time as well.

Well Sherlock, yo have certainly hit the nail on the head. Considering the transparent nature of this Conservative Government lead by Mr. Harper, I find it a little strange that we are only now finding out about the extent of the problem and only through scandal does the truth come to light.......

[ToadBrother]

Well Sherlock, yo have certainly hit the nail on the head. Considering the transparent nature of this Conservative Government lead by Mr. Harper, I find it a little strange that we are only now finding out about the extent of the problem and only through scandal does the truth come to light.......

Which suggests that it wasn't just the Tories hiding the extent of the problem. Reactors don't just suddenly get old and unsafe, it's a function of time+maintenance. It suggests to me that Chalk River has been an issue for a lot longer than the Tories have been in power. So I think maybe you should go ask the Liberals what they were doing about the problem while they were in power.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Which suggests that it wasn't just the Tories hiding the extent of the problem. Reactors don't just suddenly get old and unsafe, it's a function of time+maintenance. It suggests to me that Chalk River has been an issue for a lot longer than the Tories have been in power. So I think maybe you should go ask the Liberals what they were doing about the problem while they were in power.

We both know the real answer to that question. Regular maintenance was preformed at proscribed intervals. The system failed, it happens. Nobody is dumb enough to mess with reactors in this or any other nation. Bad luck to be in power when it happens, thats all. The story is a common one.

[benny]

Oh dear, don't burst a blood vessel or something!

Keep your "dear" to the sexy one in your non-hospital bed! Blood vessel growth is linked to cancerous tumor growth.

Edited June 10, 2009 by benny

[Oleg Bach]

Keep your "dear" to the sexy one in your non-hospital bed! Blood vessel growth is linked to cancerous tumor growth.

I have lots of extra blood vessel growth in my head - and it is benign...some people have good blood flow in the noggin and some are a tad dry with extremely low pressure...and you are a dear benny ...as am I.

[Topaz]

Well Harper has the answer to Chalk Rivers problems.....close it down and take Canada out of the isotope business! What a loser! He's worried about how much money it would cost and yet was he worried when he spent our tax dollars?? The head of the Nuclear Medicine in Canada said Maple 1&2 should be put in service. I know there's problem with them BUT there must be people out there in the world that could fix them and get them working! http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Radsickle]

Harper's thugs don't have the mental capacity to cope with problems in Canada's Nuclear Efforts. Like Harris, they'd rather `farm' out the worries to a private company who's agenda is VERY DIFFERENT than the Canadian Taxpayers.

The Leprechaun and the rest of them figure the taxpayers won't find out about the scam till they, the Narrow-minded Harrisites, are long gone.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

This entire episode is beginning to anger me. Until the reactor broke we had a 50% market share worldwide. Now this clown thinks we should just shut it down. There is a lot that will be said about this if he actually does it.

Mr. Harper you are fired.

[capricorn]

Until the reactor broke we had a 50% market share worldwide. Now this clown thinks we should just shut it down.

Does Canada really want to be responsible for health related, life and death situations occurring around the globe? How much revenue are we talking about, and is it the worth the hassle and investment? I would prefer that we concentrate on producing what we need for our own population.

Mr. Harper you are fired.

With the debacle surrounding Maple 1 and Maple 2 reactors, what makes you think a Liberal government can fix the problem, and why didn't they find a solution during their 13 years in power? They fully deserve some blame for where we're at with this issue.

[benny]

I have lots of extra blood vessel growth in my head - and it is benign...some people have good blood flow in the noggin and some are a tad dry with extremely low pressure...and you are a dear benny ...as am I.

irrelevant

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The simple truth is that we are talking about a product that is required for life saving efforts in the medical field. The fact that the Government of Canada was involved in this effort does not speak ill of the endeavor. The cause was worthy, the effort admirable. To simply walk away and leave that huge demand go unsatisfied, possibly causing harm to citizens worldwide is not the responsible act of a government.

[Argus]

From Government transcripts...http://www2.parl.gc.ca/housechamberbusines...58163#TopSearch

So who is responsible and accountable according to her boss, the Prime Minister? Is that clear accountability? Is it an honest response to a valid round of questions regarding government "SECRETS" and the competence of a Minister of the Crown?

It's as honest as just about anything else you'll find in that theatre of the absurd. I've been watching question period, off and on, since Diefenbaker was asking the questions, and rarely does the government actually try to answer a question, as opposed to scoring political points or trying to stop the opposition from scoring. It's been that way through every government of every stripe.

This hardly constitutes justification for you calling her a "liar" or questioning her intelligence or saying she should resign.

[Argus]

I just got a phone call from a friend that said she heard on the news, that some very rich Tories supporters are withdrawing their financially support. The "sexy" thing really made them angry. Don't be surprised if the Tories get lawsuits, if people start dying because of the shortage of isotopes. I wonder if they'll go from 145 down to 2?

Uhm yeah. Except NO ONE cares about this little piece of tabloid crap other than the media and the ideologues who are always eager for another reason to hate the Tories.

[capricorn]

The cause was worthy, the effort admirable. To simply walk away and leave that huge demand go unsatisfied, possibly causing harm to citizens worldwide is not the responsible act of a government.

There appear to be plenty of efforts worldwide to provide an adequate supply of isotopes. Plans are to keep the Chalk River reactor operational until 2016. Given the age of the reactor and the amount of maintenance it requires, this will come at a very high cost. I don't see this as walking away.

[Argus]

About 20 minutes ago, Raitt was on nation wide apologizing and even had tears, or tried to, to cancer patients in Canada. She tried to give reasons why she said what she said then talked about her dad and brother dying of cancer. Well, knowing her own relatives died of cancer and yet she said what she did, means little to me.

No it's been clear for some time that nothing is important to you beyond the almost frenzied hatred you have for conservatives.

I swear to the God above,

I'm willing to bet you're not even a church-goer.

if my spouse can not get the medical help he may need to check on his cancer, I will sue Raitt and Harper personally!

Because they didn't get a new reactor approved and under constraction ten years ago? That is the length of time it requires to build one, you know. So actually, you would need to sue Jean Chretien and Ralph Goodale. What's that I hear? Dead silence? Oh, now you're saying to forget it, that it surely wasn't their fault because they're such good people? Uhmm, okay.

[Argus]

I wonder if she cried with Sven Robinson when Sue Rodriguez died.

From what I heard, Raitt specifically took science, and entered the field of environmental toxicology specifically because of her family's tragedy with cancer. Not everything is a cynical lie made up to appease the cynical Tory haters you know.

[Argus]

The guy who wrote the books .. for dummies, well, he better hurray and print the one for "Minister of Natural Resources for dummies"!

Raitt has a masters degree in chemistry and a law degree. How about you?

[Argus]

Your inability to appreciate Raitt's insensitive scheming and flippant remarks is appropriate to a supporter of a party which reserves unto itself every type of gutter politics

What in the hell are you doing, trying to outdo everyone else in naive and moronic comments?

ALL POLITICIANS talk like this. ALL OF THEM. There is no politician you have ever voted for who didn't hold this type of discussion regularly with his or her aides. NONE.

Your hypocracy is insufferable

Your utter ignorance is laughable. Are you ten years old? Do you still believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny? We're letting people like you vote?!

[Argus]

Canada's is the largest supplier of isotopes and IF she knows her jobs, she knows that reactor has to stay active. By saying it would only take money to fix the problem shows she either didn't pay the money or she doesn't know what she taking about and therefore ,endangering people's health in Canada and around the world.

Or maybe the nuclear people kept telling her they could take care of it, and then couldn't. That would be pretty much in keeping for how the nuclear idustry and regulatory agencies have performed in Canada over the last quarter century.