Decline Of Personal Civility - replace by barbarism.

[Oleg Bach]

Yesterday I heard a report out of Alabama. There was a culprit with a very shadey past that lead local police on a very dangerous high speed chase. Eventually the poice used a fish tail manuvure that sent the escaping vehicle into a ditch - catapulting the driver out of the vehicle and knocking him unconscious. The police leap from their cars, dashing over to what for all intent and purpose could have been a corpse - a near corpse or a human being so severly injured that he was minutes away from expiring.

Supposedly (and I have not seen the video) they began to beat the man who was in a dead sleep with their clubs- the beating went on for over a minute - supposedly all over his body. The five or so officers were discharged from their duties and now seek a court that will re-instate them to the force....What I found distressing and astounding were the comments from the average citizen in the area and some of our locals who called in to a radio talk show ---- "It's to bad that he was unconscious and did not experience the beating" - or " It's sad that the police had to get their knuckles scraped punishing the bastard" "He deserved it because he had a record of being a bad ass''

I can not understand how your average Joe could approve of beating a human being in stupor - It was like arriving at a domestic and blooding the alledged male abuser of his partner while he was passed out...to beat someone with less regard than you would have for a dog is also disturbing. The mood of the talk show callers was one that clearly showed that killing the guy on the spot with out a trial or even proper idenitication of the alledged offender was exceptable - that people are so far gone that they do not have an inkling what rule of law was and that brutal sadistic retaliation is not something that should be part of law enforcement...I heard utter stupidy..and rationalization that consisted of "The cops have a right to get out their frustrations - they are only human" What the hell - these cops are not fit for service. But watch - they will be re-instated - sad state of affairs - and yes...maybe a bit of a kick to a resisting arrest - or one smack to a hooligan while he is aware and standing - but beating a possible corpse..well --- I am beside myself thinking of this situation and public approval.

[bush_cheney2004]

....But watch - they will be re-instated - sad state of affairs - and yes...maybe a bit of a kick to a resisting arrest - or one smack to a hooligan while he is aware and standing - but beating a possible corpse..well --- I am beside myself thinking of this situation and public approval.

What do you think police unions are for? At least they didn't Taze him!!!

[Sir Bandelot]

I saw a brief portion of the video and it is as you say, the guy comes flying out the window and lays there in the ditch, and the cops descend on his motionless body and start beating and kicking him. The driver had tried to run them over during part of the chase. I guess they wanted to kill him and make it look like an accident.

Theres a lot of bad shit going on, all the time and we dont know about it. Once in a while they get caught. Dzeikanski, King, now this guy. Cops deal with the lowest scum of humanity all the time, it must take a toll on them after a while. They need more training and perhaps therapy to deal with the effect of this stress on their psyche. Something which I don't think they get.

As for those callers on the talk show, they were probably all right-wingers...

Edited May 28, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[JerrySeinfeld]

I think this topic should be under a different heading:

"How the newsmedia can tell complete half truths"

I saw CBC air this footage. Unfortunately they failed to air the whole video. I had seen the vid in it's entirety on another channel which showed the guy run over a cop intentionally.

Of course, that kind of thing wouldn't interest a network primarly interested in perpetuation of myths about the differences between Americans and Canadians, which of course perpetuates the explanation for the CBC's entire existence: the myth that they "tell Canadian stories".

I this idiot ran over a police officer. Everyone in the world knows what that means in the good old days.

Good to see things are still settled the old fashioned way in some parts of the world.

[DarkAngel_]

hey, i love a good thrashing here and there for the taste of the Irish spirit but i agree with the fact that no matter the crime, police officials should show themselves to be in control.

look at it this way, a cop gets ran over so they go berserk and try to kill the man? then they are both criminal in nature. saying 'they are only human' is an insult to the charge of the forces who's sole duty is to protect and serve.

[JerrySeinfeld]

hey, i love a good thrashing here and there for the taste of the Irish spirit but i agree with the fact that no matter the crime, police officials should show themselves to be in control.

look at it this way, a cop gets ran over so they go berserk and try to kill the man? then they are both criminal in nature. saying 'they are only human' is an insult to the charge of the forces who's sole duty is to protect and serve.

I don't know. I generally have no regard whatsoever for the degenerates who smoke crack, get behind the wheel then flee cops and rrun them over.

Beat 'em a little. So what.

It's like the whole taser thing: what part of "GET ON THE FLOOR AND DON'T RESIST" do you not understand. If you aree stupid enough not to obey police direction - you open pandora's box and you deserve whatever's comin.

Hey, we've all beeen drunk and disorderly a time or two. But I know when I was young and dumb and full of rum, I still knew when to keep my mouth shut and do what the cops wanted.

Edited May 29, 2009 by JerrySeinfeld

[DarkAngel_]

I don't know. I generally have no regard whatsoever for the degenerates who smoke crack, get behind the wheel then flee cops and rrun them over.

Beat 'em a little. So what.

It's like the whole taser thing: what part of "GET ON THE FLOOR AND DON'T RESIST" do you not understand. If you aree stupid enough not to obey police direction - you open pandora's box and you deserve whatever's comin.

Hey, we've all beeen drunk and disorderly a time or two. But I know when I was young and dumb and full of rum, I still knew when to keep my mouth shut and do what the cops wanted.

lol of course, but to an extended action of brutality after the fact? they deserve to be detained... that is wise. to be beaten? yes enjoyable... but just human, not 'more then human.' as any man should make more of himself... this is an obvious weakness on there part as well as the 'crack addict'.

Edited May 29, 2009 by DarkAngel_

[Pliny]

I saw most of the video and Americans were appalled at the action of the police. Some of them right wingers.

My opinion of why the police take justice into their own hands is partially out of frustration that justice is often not delivered by the judicial system letting obvious criminals off on technicalities for example.

The lack of backup from the courts is also a bit demoralizing of the individual in the execution of his duties as a police officer.

I don't condone the beating the police gave the man but I understand why they did. Justice is more important to them than their jobs. If justice were being delivered it would be enough to bring them to justice but it seems it isn't.

because another cop was nearly run over (he wasn't, but it was a narrow escape) makes it a little more personal but policing shouldn't be about being personal just as it shouldn't be about delivering justice.

[Borg]

In response to the title and not the act committed.

Perhaps this is simply evidence of people - not just the police - finding the present system appalling.

Real or perceived, the present legal system is in serious disarray and has lost a great deal of the respect the public once had for it.

For many perception is reality and there are many I know - and many you also know - that have really very little time for (broad brush) entire legal system.

Somehow, the actual act that took place does nto surprize me. Vigilanty or not, I believe it will happen more and more as economy dwindles and people get more frustrated

Borg

[Muddy]

Although I think this case as described the Cops were more than a little wired up. But from what is described by comments the guy was a bit of a town bully. In our society as well as the good old USA, it seems that any retaliation or defense of ones self from the criminal element is not permitted.

[Argus]

As for those callers on the talk show, they were probably all right-wingers...

Cause they knew how to operate one of them thar telephonic devices, right?

[Argus]

In response to the title and not the act committed.

Perhaps this is simply evidence of people - not just the police - finding the present system appalling.

Real or perceived, the present legal system is in serious disarray and has lost a great deal of the respect the public once had for it.

You got that right. For example, you can read Here how six drug dealer types chased down and murdered a man in a children's indoor playland, and just pretty much got off scott free. Even the one who wielded a sword who killed the dead man - another drug dealer - was only convicted of manslaughter.

Apparently going to a kids playland - though you have no kids - in three cars loaded with weapons and then chasing down and hacking a man to death in front of the kids isn't sufficient grounds to consider that you've done murder in Canada. The whole trial was a farce, with the confused, befuddled jury eventually just shrugging and walking away.

An interesting side note is how unabashedly admiring the local criminal trial community is described as being of the murderer for his zealous job of defending himself in court.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Argus

[Oleg Bach]

You do not torture or beat the helpless - good or bad - Rule of law must prevail - and people must get involved - go sit in a court room once in a while and let the Judge know you are watching his performance - I have seen useless judges say "who is that sitting there"? - you want a good judical system - then go take care of buisness - a citizen is the ruler - not some black robe playing with himself.

[Sir Bandelot]

You do not torture or beat the helpless - good or bad - Rule of law must prevail - and people must get involved -

I agree. What you must do is wake them up, then beat the living tar out of them.

[Oleg Bach]

I agree. What you must do is wake them up, then beat the living tar out of them.

Okay - you made me laugh - yes - if you are going to kick a dog - at least wake it up and give it a chance to take a bit or run - it's cowardly to beat the helpless - or have mutual combat with a person in a wheel chair - apprently being a coward is normal these days.

[DarkAngel_]

You do not torture or beat the helpless - good or bad - Rule of law must prevail.

only with fit laws of course least there be upheaval, but is that not so the case in the opposite? when law is extended toward a harsh justice? i guess other countries just have a better way of punishing, but still the US is very soft on criminal offenders.

Edited May 30, 2009 by DarkAngel_

[BubberMiley]

Hey, we've all beeen drunk and disorderly a time or two.

Speak for yourself.

[Argus]

You do not torture or beat the helpless - good or bad -

When you see the blue lights flashing, pull safely to the right shoulder and come to a complete stop. If the police have to come and get you, they're bringing an ass kicking with them. Chris Rock

[Oleg Bach]

Speak for yourself.

dah dah da da - I drink alone - now comes the cool blues riff - yep - if you get hammered in the morning - you can be as disorderly as you please - just don't go out side - which I have done - I get real friendly and someone might just take offence...people really hate the in your face friendly thing - well not really - once they get to know you it's fine - the thing about drinking in public - you had better find a safe place around trusted patrons - because like an old Norse chief - they always try to take you down when you are weak - when you are drunk - eating or making love to a red haired celtic beauty - honestly - I have been drunk - but I do have many sober days - and I really have never been disorderly - just had poor and impaired judgement - which sometimes leads to a good time if you are up tight self absorbed twit like me...lossen up baby..

[DarkAngel_]

dah dah da da - I drink alone - now comes the cool blues riff - yep - if you get hammered in the morning - you can be as disorderly as you please - just don't go out side - which I have done - I get real friendly and someone might just take offence...people really hate the in your face friendly thing..........................and I really have never been disorderly - just had poor and impaired judgement - which sometimes leads to a good time if you are up tight self absorbed twit like me...lossen up baby..

lol Oleg i never took you for 'living in the noise and the sweet amber poison' type. i also love to be merry cops can be punishing and there job is there justice, i think when taken to matters of state being drunk is very preferred. but what of the unstable ground some cops walk upon, is this not unsettling? if i am in a stooper and i need a glass of water and maybe a nice bucket of hot wings to sooth the gullet, a cop punishing my red-cheeked celebration is not something i want spoiling my night with good friends and fine wines, liquors, and ale's. if i am caught eating intoxicated in a public area... like walking home lets say, i get 2 nights, on in the tank another in holding, and a long time of parole and community service... our laws are questionable showing as how the law meant to protect and serve has turned contemptuous and full of pity, i was recently kicked out of a gas station with my friends for 'hanging around' with a hinted gleam from the cashier that he thought we were intoxicated, strange, such hate for those who don't mind a drop or two of the old creature and yet i can not help thinking it has to do with my age.

an example of the decline of personal civility

Edited May 31, 2009 by DarkAngel_

[DarkAngel_]

Speak for yourself.

if u haven't been then why even mention? a life is worse living without living it, trying and testing. loving whats so very dumb, foolish. even with these campaigns against ourselves... we learn to live it.

[Oleg Bach]

lol Oleg i never took you for 'living in the noise and the sweet amber poison' type. i also love to be merry cops can be punishing and there job is there justice, i think when taken to matters of state being drunk is very preferred. but what of the unstable ground some cops walk upon, is this not unsettling? if i am in a stooper and i need a glass of water and maybe a nice bucket of hot wings to sooth the gullet, a cop punishing my red-cheeked celebration is not something i want spoiling my night with good friends and fine wines, liquors, and ale's. if i am caught eating intoxicated in a public area... like walking home lets say, i get 2 nights, on in the tank another in holding, and a long time of parole and community service... our laws are questionable showing as how the law meant to protect and serve has turned contemptuous and full of pity, i was recently kicked out of a gas station with my friends for 'hanging around' with a hinted gleam from the cashier that he thought we were intoxicated, strange, such hate for those who don't mind a drop or two of the old creature and yet i can not help thinking it has to do with my age.

an example of the decline of personal civility

Good to hear from you DA - I am very conservative most of the time in my thinking - I am only lately begining to enjoy the human race - the woman - the fine men - a drink on occassion - and even a puff - and music - love and good intention along with kind benevolence - I find that my street - Between Broadview and Bolton - Oueen East - is gentrified - it has low life and high life - I get along with all - and it is I that bring civility into my own life - rather be in the country - but while I am here - it's wonderful - like a small town - like pleasantville -

My wife spent the weekend with me - we peered out the window and watched the kids enjoy a hip hop wrap challenge convention - I dropped in across the street and hung out with the young - it was great - and it was civil - it was culture - then as I made my exit in broad day light - I looked across the street at the apartment window - my old wife had written my name in bold red letters on the window - It was a loving compliment - the red heart underneath my herald....THEN - as I looked out later - the sky darkened and a small storm came though - THEN a double rainbow over Queen east...I was in heaven for those moments - I yelled down to old Ralph as he crossed - and said - "Ralph - the rainbow formed as you crossed -he loved the lie....YES - if you want civilization - you have to create it - minute by minute - love to you DA - grace and joy - this is worth the trip...thanks.

[DarkAngel_]

Good to hear from you DA - I am very conservative most of the time in my thinking - I am only lately begining to enjoy the human race - the woman - the fine men - a drink on occassion - and even a puff - and music - love and good intention along with kind benevolence - I find that my street - Between Broadview and Bolton - Oueen East - is gentrified - it has low life and high life - I get along with all - and it is I that bring civility into my own life - rather be in the country - but while I am here - it's wonderful - like a small town - like pleasantville -

My wife spent the weekend with me - we peered out the window and watched the kids enjoy a hip hop wrap challenge convention - I dropped in across the street and hung out with the young - it was great - and it was civil - it was culture - then as I made my exit in broad day light - I looked across the street at the apartment window - my old wife had written my name in bold red letters on the window - It was a loving compliment - the red heart underneath my herald....THEN - as I looked out later - the sky darkened and a small storm came though - THEN a double rainbow over Queen east...I was in heaven for those moments - I yelled down to old Ralph as he crossed - and said - "Ralph - the rainbow formed as you crossed -he loved the lie....YES - if you want civilization - you have to create it - minute by minute - love to you DA - grace and joy - this is worth the trip...thanks.

you have a great view... i just am troubled hearing always that they own it... you can't get a drink of tea without someone saying it is a farse, but i don't like to doomsay so pardon the pessimism. it is nice to be around allot of life but one must always keep in mind 'de omnibus debotandum' or 'all is to be doubted' when you say, 'all is at peace' even in a civil place, but that's a discussion for a later time.

i just wish cops would protect not just the order of, but the state of a civilization... if it is happy let it be happy! did we not call this a golden age at a time?? and to you as well Oleg, good to hear as well but now... i need to get hot wings.