Law protect and encourage theft

[bjre]

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/...569326-sun.html

In Toronto in 2009, police put three Canadians of Chinese background in the slammer for catching a shoplifter. A lot of people feel these men facing prosecution for allegedly arresting someone stealing from them should be given a standing ovation!

Instead they face life in prison?

"Police located the victim bound, hand and foot, at the rear of a van," says a news release from Toronto Police.

It's a vigilante approach that will certainly send a stronger message to an alleged serial shoplifter than all previous attempts to get him to stop.

But it's also illegal. Still, it was nice to see somebody finally catching a rat down there in Chinatown. Problem is here, the guys catching the rats are the ones in all the trouble.

It's not often I find myself on the side of people charged with kidnapping and I don't blame police for doing their jobs because they have to uphold the law. But I have to tell you, right or wrong, I love this justice done Chinatown style.

Video

Actually, now it will be hard to say, what is right and what is wrong, only what behavior is in the criminal code book or not. It is just a definition on papers by politicians. From movie we know, lots of people doing things already in the code book when it is not likely have large risk, how much respect in people's heart to the law still left?

Edited May 26, 2009 by bjre

[xul]

Laws do protect the legal rights of everyone......

In the comments part of the linked story, there was some one had already explained clearly:

Rob Report CommentMay 26th 2009, 1:08pm

As a private citizen, (shop keeper, walker, whatever) you have the right to LEGALLY defend yourself from crime. Let it be thefts, assaults, etc etc.

You do not have the right to use excessive force in doing so, as per the Criminal Code "Use as much as is REASONABLY nessecary....". The term "Resonable" is decisive amongst a person who has standardized commanality for sense, and not someone who may have a radical approach.

The shop keeper, had the right to detain the theif, and reaquire his stolen goods, by using a reasonable level of force based on the thiefs response....but when a severe beating and using of ropes to subdue and restrain come into play, you wander into that "excessive" zone.

And there is a link of the website of a main political newspaper Guangming Daily of CPChina, it just says the same as the quotation above.

私权力不能成为打贼的借口private rights can not be the cause of thieves-beaten

常言道：法律面前人人平等。做贼的小偷也是人，既然是人就拥有平等的人权，小偷的人格尊严、生命等不受侵犯的人身权利，绝不允许受到侮辱，更不允许对小偷动粗施暴，应当法律待贼。也可以简单理解为，打贼就是打人，其行为显然违法犯罪，打人者应受到法律平等的惩罚。

The quotation says, "Everyone knows that everyone should be treated equally by laws. The thieves are also human, and as human they have equal human rights. Thieves also have their personal dignity, and they are not allowed to be abused or beaten. Thieves must be treated legally. You can also interpret these simply. Beating a thief is no different than beating other citizen, and obviously such activity is illegal. The thief-beaters should also be punished by law."

Edited May 26, 2009 by xul

[bjre]

Everyone knows that everyone should be treated equally by laws.

That is completely IMPOSSIBLE. For the people that can not afford the legal cost, when legal assistant runs out of time, they will have no way to be treated equally by law. That is the FACT in Canada.

The employees in the shop may earn 15000 a year, a cop earns several times more than them. Small shops can not afford the the security company expanse. The police have not so many resource to protect them so that the theft will never be caught if they call police. So their property right have no way to be protected. So they are not be treated equally with the large shops that are able to hire security company.

One solution is ask small shops add more security expense so that many small business can be closed because of the extra cost. So more people need to be feed by tax payers. More people will not able to pay tax.

The other solution is ask tax payer to pay more tax for more cops.

Your theory is good, but everyone need pay more, the overall cost for company can increase significantly, more jobs can go abroad. More people have no job, More people can not create their small business, more people try to be theft, then there need more cops. More crime will happen because of poverty, more cost need for the legal system, more jobs go away, until all people in the country become either a cop or a theft.

Edited May 26, 2009 by bjre

[Borg]

Only those with cash at hand receive justice in Canada.

There is - in many people's opinion - NO justice system in Canada.

There is however a LEGAL system in Canada

I for one have a very low opinion of our legal system and watched a dear friend suffer under the justice system - I would never trust it again. Not ever.

Borg

[Smallc]

Because our justice system works most of the time (we hear about it when it doesn't, but almost never when it does....or we ignore it), I trust it a great deal....it's always served my family well. One thing I would like to see though is the elimination of the faint hope clause.

[bjre]

Because our justice system works most of the time (we hear about it when it doesn't, but almost never when it does....or we ignore it), I trust it a great deal....it's always served my family well. One thing I would like to see though is the elimination of the faint hope clause.

Obviously, you can afford to buy justice.

Otherwise, how can you afford so much time to chat on this forum.

[Smallc]

Obviously being a student on practicum, I have no money but often too much time.

[Oleg Bach]

British property law was so strong at one time that in order to maintain the status quo - if you stole a loaf of bread - off to prison you went - that was real old school conservatism - and enforced 1800s style social Darwinism - even before Darwin....Darwin gave the rich a scientific excuse to be cheap and abuse the poor..now with liberalism - there is no right or wrong and all belongs to everybody - your wife belongs to who ever can seduce her - your children belong to the state - and we are all a big happy family - there is no right or wrong and if you want to steal from me - go head - but never just ask for help - that would be me giving though my free will - governments now steal via taxes and force you to contribute to charity that may not be to your liking..also: The other day some crack head stole my very fine bike - fine - I can live with that - the bike was a gift and it took no energy or real work to acquire it..

On the other hand I was about to plant my roof top garden - I made the effort to go into a vacant lot where people had disposed of some top soil - it took me an hour to scrap up a few bags so I could beautify my life with flowers and herbs....I put the bags at the door of my daughters loft - on the inside - some jerk stole my dirt....soil is at a premium in the city - I worked to bag that dirt - when you steal my work - I get pissed off - if you want to have a garden - dig the dirt yourself - don't use me as a slave - If I were a judge I would sentence the dirt thief to 30 days - and let the bike thief go free. What you work for you should be able to keep - what is granted for free - or what is stolen and granted to you is not protected by law.

[bjre]

Because our justice system works most of the time (we hear about it when it doesn't, but almost never when it does....or we ignore it), I trust it a great deal....it's always served my family well. One thing I would like to see though is the elimination of the faint hope clause.

There are too many laws, ordinary people are impossible to know all those complicate laws, I am not sure if there is an professor can declare he can tell all Canadian laws without help of books or Internet. Not everyone has so much time to study laws as professors. They need to make living and pay tax to support the cops and court and jails. So it is impossible for people to do everything according to law they don't know well. That means, if someone like, he can often find someone from most people break some of laws. And that means, most people can be labeled as criminal according to law.

Cops know more about law than ordinary people, in each case, he can decide who he want to charge, he can choose charge the theft according to law, in this case, cops did not do like that, they charged the shopkeeper.

And after they do this, cops and others (like CAS) are more skillful to know how to protect themselves because those are their jobs, and they have have tax from people to fight in court with anyone, who use his own money and spent his own time try to challenge them. So that normal people especially poor people keep be bullied.

That is how Canadian laws becomes a tool for persecuting people and becomes an important factor to increase the cost of the nation.

Edited May 30, 2009 by bjre

[Zachary Young]

In fact it is legal to steal in Canada. You don't believe me? I don't care, I'm still telling the truth, whether you believe me or not. Try to figure it out on your own for a while, when you cannot I will come back and explain it to you. You probably still won't listen then, but maybe, just maybe...

[Smallc]

It would be easier to believe you if you would furnish proof.

[bjre]

Now it becomes more like robbery:

http://canadianfreestuff.ca/sign-this-peti...victims-rights/

Further development

On May 27th someone claimed to be the son of the suspect visited the Lucky Moose store. This individual complained about the “beating up” of his father and threatened Mr. Chen and his family as well as the staff. As is often the case, it took the Toronto Police Service one and half hour to arrive on the store to take the report. Fortunately, there was a Toronto Star reporter, Robyn Doolittle, in the store filing a follow up story and this incident was reported on the May 28th Paper.(Pl see the attached link )

Since the May 23rd event, Mr Chen and the staff of Lucky Moose are reluctant to confront any shoplifters who choose to target the store for fear of being further charged with breaching their bail terms imposed by the court against them.

A typical case would be on May 31th, a gentleman drove up to the store and spend three to four minutes to pick out his favourite plant and slowly drove away. The total value was upward of $200 and the case was reported to the Police. Hopefully, when the Toronto Police Service is done with the higher priority matter; the officer would have the chance to look up the vehicle with the clearly indentified license plate. (Pl sees the entertaining video on this site) One hopes that the police will pursue such blatant cases of criminal activity with the same zeal it used to charge Mr. Chen.

Here is the video:

http://www.vracommittee.com/Admin/SideMenu...ipIds=undefined

They are asking for Sign Petition to Support Defendant:

http://www.vracommittee.com/club/forms/pet...TopMenuID=10006

Edited June 7, 2009 by bjre

[Smallc]

From what I know, it seems like the police went a bit too far, but we don't know all the details.

[bjre]

From what I know, it seems like the police went a bit too far, but we don't know all the details.

If police went "a bit too far", he can still stay there be a cop, is the LAW went too far?

How many cases "the police went a bit too far"? How many people become victims of "the police went a bit too far", how many cell in jails are filled due to "the police went a bit too far"? How many tax dollars has been wasted due to "the police went a bit too far", how many jobs lost and went to China due to high cost contributed by "the police went a bit too far"

Edited June 7, 2009 by bjre

[Smallc]

You're right, we should get rid of the police....or, we should take a page out of the book of the most perfect country and just kill the people instead.

[Hydraboss]

You're right, we should get rid of the police....or, we should take a page out of the book of the most perfect country and just kill the people instead.

Not a bad idea. I hear China has some tanks that they haven't used in 20 years.

Now if we only had a square.................

[bjre]

Not a bad idea. I hear China has some tanks that they haven't used in 20 years.

Now if we only had a square.................

Yet another mind controlled by western media.

1. Nobody die 20 years ago in Tienanmen square. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/04/wo...ry5061672.shtml

2. There are several hundred death in the protest in street and far away from the square due to riot that is financially supported by western organizations such as CIA, if they did not give money and tent, the protest could end in May, 1989. That is part of the war so called color revolution. So CIA is the murder.

3. After Canadian politician blame China, Dudley George was killed during a police raid to remove native protesters from Ipperwash Provincial Park on Sept. 6, 1995. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...30?hub=Specials

4. Before that US army goes into Campus killed peaceful student protesters. (http://may41970.com/allabout.htm)

5. Why I said your mind has been controlled, see this video:

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Web-Debt-Shocking-Tr...9846&sr=8-1

Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth about Our Money System -- the Banking Scheme That Is Bankrupting Us and How We Can Break Free

By Ellen Hodgson Brown, Published by Ellen Brown, 2007

Chapter 13 - Witches' Coven, Page 132:

"In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers."

(U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917)

By 1983, according to Dean Ben Bagdikian in the "The Media Monopoly", fifty corporations owned half or more of the media business. By 2000, that number was down to six corporations, with directorates interlocked with each other and with major commercial banks. (Norman Solomon, "Break up Microsoft? ... Then How About the Media 'Big Six?'" The Free Press (April 27, 2000)

[Hydraboss]

Yet another mind controlled by western media.

1. Nobody die 20 years ago in Tienanmen square. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/04/wo...ry5061672.shtml

2. There are several hundred death in the protest in street and far away from the square due to riot that is financially supported by western organizations such as CIA, if they did not give money and tent, the protest could end in May, 1989. That is part of the war so called color revolution. So CIA is the murder.

3. After Canadian politician blame China, Dudley George was killed during a police raid to remove native protesters from Ipperwash Provincial Park on Sept. 6, 1995. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...30?hub=Specials

4. Before that US army goes into Campus killed peaceful student protesters. (http://may41970.com/allabout.htm)

5. Why I said your mind has been controlled, see this video:

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Web-Debt-Shocking-Tr...9846&sr=8-1

Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth about Our Money System -- the Banking Scheme That Is Bankrupting Us and How We Can Break Free

By Ellen Hodgson Brown, Published by Ellen Brown, 2007

Chapter 13 - Witches' Coven, Page 132:

So you're saying the tanks have low hours? Excellent.

[bjre]

So you're saying the tanks have low hours? Excellent.

Canadian tanks are now in Afghanistan playing killing and being killed game.

[Hydraboss]

Canadian tanks are now in Afghanistan playing killing and being killed game.

That's okay. The machines are one thing, but what we really need are soldiers with lots of experience running over people (especially students).

Those Chinese tank commanders would be, what, 40 or so by now?

[bjre]

That's okay. The machines are one thing, but what we really need are soldiers with lots of experience running over people (especially students).

Those Chinese tank commanders would be, what, 40 or so by now?

Isn't that a better experience to kill thousands of children in Residential School.

[bjre]

Cops don't want to catch thieves, they want make things bigger so that they can use more police power and ask for more tax dollars. they don't care if less people will pay tax. They care for themselves only.

Now cops send the message clearly to the community: go thieves go, play with hard work peoples, until they fight you back and cops will share some dollars in this way, and thieves will be safe.

Police lay assault charges against man who claims he was defending his business

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/04/toronto-vigilante-restaurant-owner.html

A Toronto restaurant owner is facing assault charges after fighting with a man he says has repeatedly tried to steal from his restaurant in a case that raises issues about the rights of property owners.

Naveen Polapady owns Maroli, an Indian restaurant located at 630 Bloor St. W. near Euclid Avenue.

Polapady, who lives above the restaurant with his wife and two children, told CBC News that he caught the same man trying to break into his home and business on numerous occasions in a string of events that began last summer.

Polapady said he would often spot the man lurking in an alley located at the back of the restaurant.

Polapady said he reported the attempted thefts to police, but they made no arrests. In response, Polapady upgraded his locks and installed surveillance cameras.

Police allege that Polapady was hiding in the bushes with the intention of ambushing the alleged thief on that day. Polapady denies it was an ambush and says he saw the man trying to break into one of the vehicles on his property and was trying to stop him.

During the tussle, Polapady struck the man with the broom handle and — during a portion of the struggle that happened off-camera — threw spices into the man's face.

'I had to run for my life'

The camera captures the two men trading blows. Polapady eventually flees from the larger man, who is then seen riding away on his bike in the opposite direction.

"He was physically very strong," Polapady told CBC News. "I had to run for my life. He chased me and threatened to kill me."

Polapady then followed the man in his car and called police. The man was arrested and questioned by police but the only charges police laid were against Polapady for assault causing bodily harm, assault with a weapon and administering a noxious substance, a reference to the spices.

Police have confirmed to CBC News that the man they arrested and questioned after the incident has multiple theft convictions.

Const. Wendy Drummond said police investigated but didn't find enough evidence to support charges against the man who struggled with Polapady.