Canada's immigration policy.

[Machjo]

Now guaranteeing services to those immigrants might be socialist, but allowing them in is libertarian.

[Guest Mich]

The question of immigration is not one easily answered. If anything, it only breeds more questions. Most Canadians, are descended from immigrants, if not directly an immigrant, so the issue touches the hearts and lives of us all if we immediately recognize it or not.

Well of course that is true, but wasn't that moreso when Canada was trying to build up the country? Also the types of people who first immigrated were different, they came from different countries that maybe were more akin to integration such as the Irish, Scottish, English, Italians. Just throwing some ideas out there.

Honestly I don't know why Canada has such an open door policy. I highly doubt it's mainly b/c of compassion.

Did anyone watch that TV movie (was on a year or two ago) about a woman who was stranded in immigration detention (can't remember the name of it) & she had a very good case for being allowed in, but they wouldn't let her in & this went on for years? The lawyer who eventually took her case didn't start caring until several months in & she eventually spent years doing this all pro bono.

It broke my heart, but I think that's a much different situation & something I can easily relate to & agree with, then letting in thousands & thousands of people all from the same country.

That being said, when it comes to immigrating on the basis of importing brains, I feel less compassionate. I feel that if Canada wants a more highly skilled workforce we should be growing it here at home, via educational programs that encourage Canadians that are able, to pursue careers in the needed area's. This may help ensure that persons in positions of power, were raised to look at things from a Canadian perspective. I do say may. Just having been born and raised in Canada is no guarantee that a person will have Canadian perspectives or interests, it just increases the likelihood.

I agree. I didn't realize that was a reason for immigration.

Ultimately, I feel that the consequences of any decision on the subject of immigration, will be borne in one way or another, by every single Canadian, including future generations. For this reason alone I do not feel that such a weighty decision should be in the hands of a select few whose reasoning is their own. I do feel that such a decision should be squarely placed in the hands of every existing Canadian, those who must bear the consequences or rewards, are those who should make the decision. In that light, again, a referendum would be the most responsible decision possible. So that the outcome is not "my choice" or "your choice" but "our choice."

Well at this point I have never had a say in the matter & no one from the government has ever asked me & I know the government does focus groups, I've been to a few in person & online.

Thanks Martin

Michelle

[Oleg Bach]

Canadians are decended from immigrants. Canadians are decended from immigrants. Canadians are decended from immigrants - How many times do I have to hear that tripe - OF course mankind has immigrated and migrated and propogated all over the world -

It is a case of standing in line -----we have rule in the west - first come first serve - who ever stands the longest earns the most rights and has the most status.....a person that has been generationally here for four hundred years is NOT on par or equal to a person that showed up yesterday - this idea that time does not matter is stupid - we might as well get rid of line ups at the bank or check out counter and have a disorderly free for all - I see this with some immigrants - you stand in line for ten minutes and some smiling jerk arrives and step in front of you like it's normal WHERE THEY COME FROM _ Perhaps it's not - what I notice is that the butt in artist first test you with a smile - They understand one thing about Christian culture and the effects of it in our secular society - that we are kind and civilized and will not punch them in the head for pushing us aside.

[benny]

Rich and privledged students grow older and enter into politic - these people sometimes never get over reading the works of Marx or Trotsky - they are fine wine socialists - hobbiest - to make all people equal and eqaully poor seems ideal for them - and even just - but will they give up their personal fortunes in the fanceful building of feel good socialism? Not likely - did Trudeau give up his luxury and playboy life style? Of course not...it's easy for the rich to play commie for fun - they do not have to live the life and system they seek to inflict and infect on the populace - To them it's -----------------well - and interesting hobby -much like a game of war with very nice antique tin soldiers as they sip scotch.

What about immigration policy now!?

[Oleg Bach]

What about immigration policy now!?

The numbers are just about right - more are not needed - Those here are assimulating well - Humanitarian grounds such as bringing in every long lost relative and "uniting" family members will be never ending - Those from nations that are anti-west - anti-judaic - or anti-christian must be blocked - those that are enemies that slipped though the cracks and are all ready here - must be contained untill the mature and adjust - keep an eye on them --- Those that enter into the nation on the grounds that they have money and will contribute have to be screened - take the earlier immigrants from Tiwan after the threat of the lease ending - most are crimminal in mind and opportunist who brought money that was ill gotten..they do not make good citizens....Africans from good families make good citizens - Those from China - enough - they have a cultural agenda - and as for Muslims - you have to judge them individually - if not controled they will destroy the fabric of our society and eventually will oppress the rest in 50 years...

[benny]

The numbers are just about right - more are not needed - Those here are assimulating well - Humanitarian grounds such as bringing in every long lost relative and "uniting" family members will be never ending - Those from nations that are anti-west - anti-judaic - or anti-christian must be blocked - those that are enemies that slipped though the cracks and are all ready here - must be contained untill the mature and adjust - keep an eye on them --- Those that enter into the nation on the grounds that they have money and will contribute have to be screened - take the earlier immigrants from Tiwan after the threat of the lease ending - most are crimminal in mind and opportunist who brought money that was ill gotten..they do not make good citizens....Africans from good families make good citizens - Those from China - enough - they have a cultural agenda - and as for Muslims - you have to judge them individually - if not controled they will destroy the fabric of our society and eventually will oppress the rest in 50 years...

What about now your point of view on Canadian immigration policy if you were still a non-Canadian?

[Oleg Bach]

First benny - don't try to take my citizenship away - with the "non-Canadian" I am Canadian unless we are invaded by China - or America - then I will become either of those..................and _ I have no use for policy driven governments or policy driven ideas on anything concerning immigration - I would like to see rule of law and good JUDGEMENT - than policy or policing of people with an autocratic blunt instrument. JUDGE - but that would take constant work and diligence _ to set up policy is like putting the nation on auto-pilot - and not seeing the on coming mountain range when flying to low - policy is sheer lazyness - JUDGE...discriminate between good and evil - BUT that would take having real people who are committed no nation and goodness - we don't have that -----and what's with Harper wearing the yamaka - I don't see him wearing a berka at an Islamic womans converence? I guess policy is based in pandering...what a loser...playing little Jew boy - and having the stero-typical idea that Jews are shrewd and powerful and I must kiss their ass as a PM...off track - but what do you expect from Harper - and his policy driven governement - without good and firm judgement?

[Guest Mich]

Off topic

On this software cI've never used b4, How does one unsubscribe from a thread they have already posted on?

Thanks

Michelle

[Martin Odber]

Canadians are decended from immigrants. Canadians are decended from immigrants. Canadians are decended from immigrants - How many times do I have to hear that tripe - OF course mankind has immigrated and migrated and propogated all over the world -

It is a case of standing in line -----we have rule in the west - first come first serve - who ever stands the longest earns the most rights and has the most status.....a person that has been generationally here for four hundred years is NOT on par or equal to a person that showed up yesterday - this idea that time does not matter is stupid

Oleg, seniority, does not matter. It did not matter one bit to our predecessors when they arrived here and found Natives that had been here much longer. It doesn't matter one bit more now.

I have long felt one of Canada's greatest strengths, lies in our ties with multiculturalism. Understanding, tolerance, acceptance, communication, melding go along way towards peace and uniting peoples. Seeing another person as a person, you yourself being recognized as a person, that is where your true power is.

The danger, if there is one, would be to fail to welcome these persons integrating them into our society as equals, but instead leave them in groups where they identify with their past, rather than our future. Us and them, spells danger, we, spells hope for us all.

It is not our differences that make us strong, it is what we share in common.

regards,

Martin

www.canadianreferendumparty.com

[Argus]

Call Frenchmen Frenchmen as much as you like, as long as those men are from France; lest you confuse Algerians, Madagascarese, Moroccans, Haitians, Romandians, Wallonians, Luxembourgians, Aostans, Guernsians, Congoese, Cajuns, & etc. with the French.

Frenchman isn't a synonym for French-speaker; it is such for people from France.

I have never known anyone, in any unofficial setting, in my lifetime, to refer to the French as in Francophone Canadians, as anything other than French. No one EVER has or ever will refer to them as Francophones. The sole exception would be in discussions about the language itself.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Argus

[Argus]

Wow! What a terribly unepathetic, anglo-centred view of the policy. Official bilingualism is a policy that ensure that 1 in 4 Canadians can speak to their government in their own language. No more, no less.

Really? So it doesn't require tens of thousand of public servants who have NO contact with the public, EVER, to be fluent in French?

[Argus]

In the ensuing 100 years, the English majority tired many tactics to extinguish the French fact. All of these attempts failed. Then, some started to say "If we can't beat them, then lets ask them to join us" and lo and behold, bilingualism was born.

Could you perhaps enlighten us on these tactics made to try to extinguish the French "fact" whatever that is?

Cause I seem to recall my history lessons said something about the English pretty much guaranteeing the French that they could keep their language right after kicking their collective asses.

[Argus]

If English were easy to learn, maybe I could agree with you. But it's a bloody mess, and so most Quebecers could not learn it well. They have rights in their province too.

English is easier for the French to learn than the reverse, by several orders of magnitide.

[Argus]

Indeed. Rights are a scam, and the Liberals get most of Quebec seats at each and every federal election. Right.

That was certainly the case up until the formation of the BQ.

[Martin Odber]

Well of course that is true, but wasn't that moreso when Canada was trying to build up the country? Also the types of people who first immigrated were different, they came from different countries that maybe were more akin to integration such as the Irish, Scottish, English, Italians. Just throwing some ideas out there.

I do agree Michelle that the more we share in common with others, such as language, the easier it is to accept. Especially when it comes to language as it is such a basic and seemingly insurmountable barrier at times.

Even so, good hearted people, and heartless bastards (lack of a better word), come with every skin color and background. If we are to discriminate on who we let in, let it be on that basis. We do not choose where or to whom we are born, we just try to make the best of it.

Honestly I don't know why Canada has such an open door policy. I highly doubt it's mainly b/c of compassion.

Again I agree Michelle, while individuals often demonstrate compassion, systems rarely do. That is a very good reason to have people holding the reigns of the systems that govern them.

Thank you for your straightforwardness.

It is not our differences that make us a people, it is the things we share in common.

regards,

Martin Odber

www.canadianreferendumparty.com

[Argus]

Of course a desire to stay comfortable prompts intolerance.

Actually, in terms of third world people, the better phrase would often be "familiarity breeds contempt".

And as I said, no one ever put a question to Canadians, such as those in Toronto and Vancouver "Would you like us to let in so many foreign immigrants you become a minority in your own city?"

And if they had no one would have agreed to it. Immigration has crept up on most Canadians, who never really paid it a lot of mind, never put a high priority on it when they went to cast their votes. Now many of them find themselves virtually strangers in their own country.

It's not intollerent to not like that. It's human.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Actually, in terms of third world people, the better phrase would often be "familiarity breeds contempt".

And as I said, no one ever put a question to Canadians, such as those in Toronto and Vancouver "Would you like us to let in so many foreign immigrants you become a minority in your own city?"

And if they had no one would have agreed to it. Immigration has crept up on most Canadians, who never really paid it a lot of mind, never put a high priority on it when they went to cast their votes. Now many of them find themselves virtually strangers in their own country.

It's not intollerent to not like that. It's human.

This nations policies are very much in line with most others in terms of immigration.

[Argus]

This nations policies are very much in line with most others in terms of immigration.

Not even close.

[Smallc]

Not even close.

I'm sure you have proof for that statment.

[benny]

Actually, in terms of third world people, the better phrase would often be "familiarity breeds contempt".

And as I said, no one ever put a question to Canadians, such as those in Toronto and Vancouver "Would you like us to let in so many foreign immigrants you become a minority in your own city?"

And if they had no one would have agreed to it. Immigration has crept up on most Canadians, who never really paid it a lot of mind, never put a high priority on it when they went to cast their votes. Now many of them find themselves virtually strangers in their own country.

It's not intollerent to not like that. It's human.

It is not human to live in zoo-like cities and racism, in rural areas, prevents familiarity with foreigners.

[Argus]

I'm sure you have proof for that statment.

It is an established fact that Canada has let in more immigrants per capita, over the past forty years than anyone else in the world.

New York, London and Paris have a lot of foreign immigrants - but not over half the population, as we have in Toronto.

[benny]

It is an established fact that Canada has let in more immigrants per capita, over the past forty years than anyone else in the world.

New York, London and Paris have a lot of foreign immigrants - but not over half the population, as we have in Toronto.

Canada will always remain the country best protected against illegal immigration though.

[Smallc]

It is an established fact that Canada has let in more immigrants per capita, over the past forty years than anyone else in the world.

That doesn't mean that our standards are lower.

[benny]

That doesn't mean that our standards are lower.

It is not a topic about "what are" but about "what should be".

[Smallc]

It is not a topic about "what are" but about "what should be".

Maybe it is what it should be? I think we should fix the backlog though.