Ottawa's plan to fingerprint

[jdobbin]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

The Harper government unveiled legislation yesterday that would change criminal law procedure so police can fingerprint and photograph people whom they've arrested but not yet charged - a measure that raises civil-rights concerns for opposition parties and defence lawyers.

The Identification of Criminals Act does not currently authorize police officers to fingerprint or photograph someone in custody until he or she is charged or convicted.

Federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson tabled the proposal yesterday as part of a series of changes that he said will modernize criminal procedure and make the justice system more efficient and effective.

Seems to me that the government is going to get slapped down by a Constitutional challenge.

If people are routinely fingerprinted and then the fingerprints are used to incriminate them, it violates a fundamental right of all citizens.

The police could arrest people and not charge them just to get their fingerprints on file.

[Smallc]

Anybody who claims that this is the party of libertarians is insane.

[Mr.Canada]

I want to see all criminals/immigrants micro chipped with GPS type chips. Public safety trumps individuals right to privacy, criminals gave up that right when they broke the law, let's keep track of them to better protect the rest of us. Police cruisers/Immigration control being notified when the offender enters the officers beat.

I have an idea where we would make a new division called Immigration control who would be like the police except they would electronically track and record new immigrants movements to ensure t hey aren't contacting known terrorists and setting up terror cells in Canada. Upon being caught charged with treason convicted, punished then repatriated to their homeland, dead or alive.

If they prove themselves to be good loyal citizens then they can apply to have the chips removed.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Molly]

With a sincere heart and a straight face he says that.

Un......believeable.

[Smallc]

I want to see all criminals/immigrants micro chipped with GPS type chips. Public safety trumps individuals right to privacy,

Aside from the fact that microchips can cause cancer around them....very slippery slope, and one that I hope most Canadians won't be willing to go down. I swear, you go away and become more outrageous each time you return.

[Mr.Canada]

Aside from the fact that microchips can cause cancer around them....very slippery slope, and one that I hope most Canadians won't be willing to go down. I swear, you go away and become more outrageous each time you return.

I go away because I am busy learning from my mentor. I come back stronger and more powerful then before. I evolve, I don't stay the same like so many here. I'm preparing to run for public office very soon. Waiting for the next municipal elections.

[CANADIEN]

I want to see all criminals/immigrants micro chipped with GPS type chips. Public safety trumps individuals right to privacy, criminals gave up that right when they broke the law, let's keep track of them to better protect the rest of us. Police cruisers/Immigration control being notified when the offender enters the officers beat.

I have an idea where we would make a new division called Immigration control who would be like the police except they would electronically track and record new immigrants movements to ensure t hey aren't contacting known terrorists and setting up terror cells in Canada. Upon being caught charged with treason convicted, punished then repatriated to their homeland, dead or alive.

If they prove themselves to be good loyal citizens then they can apply to have the chips removed.

That's it. Let microchip people, like animals...

[Smallc]

I evolve, I don't stay the same like so many here.

I change my mind all of the time...you must not be referring to me.

[CANADIEN]

Of course, there are some who will see "Only those who have done something wwrong have to fear this new procedure".

Of course, they will be willing to match their actions and their words and voluntarily go to the police and submit their fingerprints.

[Mr.Canada]

That's it. Let microchip people, like animals...

Yes, we need to microchip criminals and new immigrants who may be a risk to public safety. Perhaps some of you are in favor of terrorism at the cost of public safety but the vast majority of Canadians aren't.

It's just an idea, I'm brainstorming. I'll email my MP later about it to see if a private members bill can come from it.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[CANADIEN]

I go away because I am busy learning from my mentor.

Change mentor then.

I come back stronger and more powerful then before. I evolve, I don't stay the same like so many here.

You change all right. But that's not evolution.

Edited May 17, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Smallc]

I'll email my MP later about it to see if a private members bill can come from it.

Oh please do. I hope they agree. That will ensure a Liberal victory in the next election.

[CANADIEN]

Perhaps some of you are in favor of terrorism a(...)

And perhaps the Earth is flat.

It's just an idea

A bad one.

[CANADIEN]

Oh please do. I hope they agree. That will ensure a Liberal victory in the next election.

On the contrary, the MP might get some brownie points for common sense by just laughing at the idea.

[Smallc]

On the contrary, the MP might get some brownie points for common sense by just laughing at the idea.

Very true....I can't think of many people that would admit to agreeing with such an idea....even if they agree, they wouldn't admit it....and I live in Dauphin - Swan River - Marquette (well, on the weekends).

Edited May 17, 2009 by Smallc

[Keepitsimple]

I think we have to look at the intent of the law and then see if we can put the appropriate safeguards in place. Here's an excerpt from the article that explains the intent. Sure, we have to be careful.....but that's what proper legislation is all about. This is the perfect time to take some brave but small steps to modernize the Justice system.....because with our minority government, you can be pretty sure that the committee opposition members will ensure plenty of safeguards. I only hope that they will have enough foresight to at least buy into the intent, and then get to work at producing balanced and effective legislation

B.C. Attorney-General Wally Oppal defended the proposed change, saying it can cut down on delays in the system.

"Very often a person is arrested and taken into custody but the charge may not be laid for a few days - or may not be laid at all," he said. "It will get rid of unnecessary delays and it will mean a person can be released immediately. So it helps the accused and it helps the police."

Mr. Oppal rejected the notion the fingerprinting rule change could be used as an investigative tool, saying "it's not as if police are entitled to arrest people at random and keep them in custody and fingerprint them."

Edited May 17, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Smallc]

Sorry, I don't buy that. If they aren't charged, then they shouldn't be fingerprinted...and if they are talking to much time to charge the others, fix that problem, don't punish people who may be wrongfully accused.

[Keepitsimple]

Sorry, I don't buy that. If they aren't charged, then they shouldn't be fingerprinted...and if they are talking to much time to charge the others, fix that problem, don't punish people who may be wrongfully accused.

As self-important as you may be, no one is asking YOU to buy it. Those were comments by BC's Attourney General.......it probably follows that other AG's support the concept.

[ToadBrother]

I go away because I am busy learning from my mentor. I come back stronger and more powerful then before. I evolve, I don't stay the same like so many here. I'm preparing to run for public office very soon. Waiting for the next municipal elections.

I used to think you were just an idiot. Now I'm beginning to think you're a delusional Anakin Skywalker wannabe

[Smallc]

As self-important as you may be, no one is asking YOU to buy it. Those were comments by BC's Attourney General.......it probably follows that other AG's support the concept.

Ahhh, so you think we need to look closer at what he said....but because I don't buy it as a legitimate argument, I'm the self important one...hmmm. Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't buy the argument. This is an attack on human rights...it is a presumption of guilt before even an accusation of such a thing. It shouldn't (and hopefully won't) be allowed to go forward.

I really don't care what an auditor general thinks, security shouldn't and doesn't trump human rights. I'm positive this will end up in the courts if it does pass and then we will see.

[ToadBrother]

I think we have to look at the intent of the law and then see if we can put the appropriate safeguards in place. Here's an excerpt from the article that explains the intent. Sure, we have to be careful.....but that's what proper legislation is all about. This is the perfect time to take some brave but small steps to modernize the Justice system.....because with our minority government, you can be pretty sure that the committee opposition members will ensure plenty of safeguards. I only hope that they will have enough foresight to at least buy into the intent, and then get to work at producing balanced and effective legislation

I fail to see how you can safeguard this. If a person has not been convicted a crime, they are by definition innocent. That's the way it works. This is a step towards undermining the presumption of innocence, a rather hard-won right. Until the state proves you guilty, there should be no permanent legal consequences, otherwise, after a fashion, you have been found guilty of a crime.

[ToadBrother]

I really don't care what an auditor general thinks, security shouldn't and doesn't trump human rights. I'm positive this will end up in the courts if it does pass and then we will see.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

[CANADIEN]

I used to think you were just an idiot. Now I'm beginning to think you're a delusional Anakin Skywalker wannabe

Stop insulting Anakin

[Sabre Rider]

I go away because I am busy learning from my mentor. I come back stronger and more powerful then before. I evolve, I don't stay the same like so many here. I'm preparing to run for public office very soon. Waiting for the next municipal elections.

I thought the Canadian Fascist Party had long since disbanded.

[CANADIEN]

I thought the Canadian Fascist Party had long since disbanded.

Good thing for them, considering who they'd be stuck with as a member.