Pirates are a growing problem!

[wulf42]

This seems unbelievable that we can't get a handle on a bunch of ragtag scumbags in little more than a row boat with a motor....??? the solution is very simple! ARM the freighters to the teeth with Machine guns and cannons...then the next pirate ship that comes near will get a hell of a surprise....or start doing the convoy thing again with every ship locked and loaded.............good bye scumbag pirates...problem solved!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7901152.stm

[Argus]

This seems unbelievable that we can't get a handle on a bunch of ragtag scumbags in little more than a row boat with a motor....??? the solution is very simple! ARM the freighters to the teeth with Machine guns and cannons...then the next pirate ship that comes near will get a hell of a surprise....or start doing the convoy thing again with every ship locked and loaded.............good bye scumbag pirates...problem solved!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7901152.stm

That is not a solution.

If you have ants in your house, do you hire a guy to run around stomping on them wherever they appear, or do you go after the nest?

We know where the pirates are. There simply does not exist enough backbone on the part of the international community to do anything about it.

[wulf42]

That is not a solution.

If you have ants in your house, do you hire a guy to run around stomping on them wherever they appear, or do you go after the nest?

We know where the pirates are. There simply does not exist enough backbone on the part of the international community to do anything about it.

true............but if these ship had the ability to blow these maggots out of the water then the pirates would give it up!

[Argus]

true............but if these ship had the ability to blow these maggots out of the water then the pirates would give it up!

If the pirates knew that they could not take a ship back to their port and hold it and get money from it - but instead would be visited by commandos and destroyers - they would stop even faster.

[Shakeyhands]

there should be Q Ships deployed.

[JerrySeinfeld]

This seems unbelievable that we can't get a handle on a bunch of ragtag scumbags in little more than a row boat with a motor....???

Sadly i think this is a quote that will be seen over and over again in different situations in coming years.

It's not the "major evil superpower" that's gonna blow a whole country apart. It's gonna be more of the above.

[eyeball]

Pirates are a growing problem!

Baloney. Awareness of something that's been with us forever has merely impinged for a moment on a half-somnolent public is all.

...snore...

[jdobbin]

ARM the freighters to the teeth with Machine guns and cannons.

Then the ships lose the right of "innocent passage" as detailed in the Law of the Sea. The freighters and their crews would be held up at every port for expensive inspections.

Law of the Sea Conventions

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agr...nclos/part2.htm

2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:

( b ) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;

Edited April 12, 2009 by jdobbin

[wulf42]

Then the ships lose the right of "innocent passage" as detailed in the Law of the Sea. The freighters and their crews would be held up at every port for expensive inspections.

Law of the Sea Conventions

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agr...nclos/part2.htm

Well they armed ships during ww2 to help protect themselves.......these would bew defensive weapons used at closed weapons.

this is the best and most simple solution...give the ability for these ships and crews to wipe these animals out when they attack! As far as expense goes can't be any worse then losing an entire shipment plus the ship to thugs?

[ironstone]

These chickensh*t pirates do this because....they can.There has been no concerted effort by the major powers to put an end to this piracy.So far,it looks like most nations that have been victims are more often than not,reluctant to use real military force.And by that I mean actually sending these pricks to the bottom.I agree that at the very least,these ships should be armed with heavy machine guns or something more lethal.The consequences for the pirates?So far,what consequences?In a perfect world they would be blasted into oblivion.

[bariboh]

The pirates are part of the overall bandit economy that emerged in Somalia after the collapse of the state institutions. Many are former fisherman that began as vigilante groups who attacked foreign fishing ships that were operating in Somali territorial waters without government permission. Some gangs even call themselves "the Somali Navy" or "the Somali Coast Guard". It didn't take long for them to realize that merchant ships were more lucrative than fishing boats, so the transition from vigilante to pirate was a natural one.

Much like the pirate problems in 18th Century West Indies, these will not be solved until there is a stable government on the ground. However, Egypt has for years been sparking chaos upstream in order to prevent development that would challenge the Egyptian monopoly to Nile water. The is a VERY complicate situation and I don't know how to solve it.

[ironstone]

I just heard that the American captain being held hostage has been rescued.Navy SEALS were apparently involved in the operation under cover of darkness.Three of the pirates were shot dead and one captured.

This does not in any way mean the end of the piracy problem but it makes me feel good that three of these cowardly bastards are dead.Nice news to end my day

[jdobbin]

Well they armed ships during ww2 to help protect themselves.......these would bew defensive weapons used at closed weapons.

this is the best and most simple solution...give the ability for these ships and crews to wipe these animals out when they attack!

The difference here of course is that war is different than peacetime.

The "just in time" culture we have depends on the swift unfettered transportation from port to port. Multiple crew inspections would ensure in each port call and it would be very time consuming and expensive according the the U.S. Maritime Academy.

[wulf42]

The is a VERY complicate situation and I don't know how to solve it.

Very easy, blow every friggin one of them out of the water ....see how many pirates will be willing to come out and play then?!

Edited April 12, 2009 by wulf42

[jbg]

We know where the pirates are. There simply does not exist enough backbone on the part of the international community to do anything about it.

We''ve been down this road before (link). Thank G-d Jefferson and Madison had more backbone than GWB amd Obama.

[JB Globe]

This seems unbelievable that we can't get a handle on a bunch of ragtag scumbags in little more than a row boat with a motor....??? the solution is very simple! ARM the freighters to the teeth with Machine guns and cannons...then the next pirate ship that comes near will get a hell of a surprise....or start doing the convoy thing again with every ship locked and loaded.............good bye scumbag pirates...problem solved!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7901152.stm

Most folks don't realize that the Islamic Courts Union pretty much halted piracy during it's brief time in power in Somalia. The fact is that so long as there is violent anarchy in Somalia and no repercussions for piracy than people who are very poor are going to do it. I'm not making a moral argument here, I'm just being pragmatic - it might be better to have a repressive regime in power (not necessarily the ICU) in Somalia than utter chaos - that goes for both Somalis and the international community.

This kind of situation is a result of having a desperately poor failed state beside a shipping lane that handles a large amount of high-value cargo. It's a huge amount of ocean to patrol and I don't think you're going to be able to stop it unless you commit a ridiculous amount of resources to deterrence. I think dealing with the root cause of the problem: Somalia, will probably be a more effective, cheaper, and longer-lasting solution to the problem.

[benny]

Pirates are a growing solution. Without piracy, kids would die at sea trying to reach clandestinely Europe.

[JB Globe]

From Today's Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/618359

Meddlers botched Somalia

Apr 15, 2009

. . . Few in the West paid much attention to Somalia after that. But at the grassroots, something was happening. A small group of fighters, disgusted with the chaos, reached back into the country's past to revive two institutions that superseded clan divisions – religion and customary tribal law.

Armed with what was literally a law-and-order platform, this Islamic Courts Union took on the warlords. Its methods of justice, resting on a combination of sharia and tribal law, were brutal but effective. Its popularity grew.

But by then, the world was in the post-9/11 era. Washington, seeing all Islamists as evil, quietly had its Central Intelligence Agency back the increasingly unpopular warlords in the Somali civil war.

Nonetheless, the Islamic Courts Union, led by a cleric named Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed, won control of the entire country in 2006, forcing the titular but ineffective, UN-backed government into exile.

As the New York Time would later report, for six months Somalia enjoyed its first full period of peace in 15 years.

Even the increasingly troublesome pirates were brought to heel. In November 2006, Islamist government fighters stormed a hijacked foreign ship, freed its captives and arrested the pirates.

"We will not tolerate anyone creating trouble in our waters," Islamist leader Ahmed announced.

It was too good to last. In early 2007, backed by U.S. air power, Ethiopia invaded to topple Ahmed's Islamic government (and, incidentally, kidnap Canadian citizen Bashir Makhtal as an alleged terror supporter).

From that invasion came more civil war, more unrest and more piracy. In 2007, the International Maritime Bureau announced that after years of decline, piracy off the Somali coast was soaring. By 2008, Somali pirates were making the front pages of newspapers around the world.

The Ethiopians pulled out this year. They're sick of Somalia. In the U.S. media, Ahmed, the Islamic cleric that Washington once deposed, is now labelled a moderate. He has just been named president of the (still powerless) UN-backed government.

Meanwhile, civil war still rages. The most powerful anti-government Islamist faction in that war is more brutal and more anti-American that the Islamic Courts Union ever was.

And yes, thanks in large part to the last ill-conceived foreign intervention, piracy is even more of a booming business.

I knew that we would regret disposing the ICU so quickly without trying to engage them first, which they were open to. The post-9/11 paranoia that any group that draws any inspiration from Islamic teachings is one-breath away from becoming Al-Qaeda is irrational and prevents us from working with imperfect but willing partners in imperfect situations.

Frankly, a flawed regime is better than violent anarchy. It seems as though we're coming around to this given Ahmed being opposed by the Bush Administration and now backed by the Obama Administration.

Edited April 15, 2009 by JB Globe

[benny]

I knew that we would regret disposing the ICU so quickly without trying to engage them first, which they were open to. The post-9/11 paranoia that any group that draws any inspiration from Islamic teachings is one-breath away from becoming Al-Qaeda is irrational and prevents us from working with imperfect but willing partners in imperfect situations.

Frankly, a flawed regime is better than violent anarchy. It seems as though we're coming around to this given Ahmed being opposed by the Bush Administration and now backed by the Obama Administration.

Never forget though that Al-Qaeda is the product of a man (bin Laden) being fed up to see Sheiks working too readily with Americans without taking into consideration their populations rights and needs.

Edited April 15, 2009 by benny

[jbg]

This kind of situation is a result of having a desperately poor failed state beside a shipping lane that handles a large amount of high-value cargo. It's a huge amount of ocean to patrol and I don't think you're going to be able to stop it unless you commit a ridiculous amount of resources to deterrence. I think dealing with the root cause of the problem: Somalia, will probably be a more effective, cheaper, and longer-lasting solution to the problem.

If these people are desparately poor where are they getting their rather sophisticated radar, navigation and fighting equipment from?

[tango]

ransom

It isn't just about the people being poor, but having lost their livelihoods through clearances of the land, famine, war, and lost their fishing industry to toxic waste.

It's about loss of other opportunities to make a living.

[wulf42]

More reason's to show these filthy animals no mercy, we should do the same to pirates NO PRISONERS...kill em as we find em!!!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...90415?hub=World

[tango]

What do you expect to happen when some are killed by snipers?

[benny]

What do you expect to happen when some are killed by snipers?

Revenge, of course.

[jbg]

Revenge, of course.

I don't understand your willingness to accomodate piracy. It's of a piece with supporters of the Palestinians.