Canadian Blue Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) If you thought the Macleans case was a sham, just wait for this proposal to be implemented. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1275352 http://www.slate.com/id/2212662/ Given this story, and the United Nations resolution which would essentially ban criticism of religion; it's a wonder if 50 years from now we'll be looking for another Magna Carta to give us back some essential freedoms. Needless to say, journalists don't require regulation, should be free to work without fear of being punished by a governing body, and should be allowed a degree of independence from the government. The freedom of a journalist to write what they want is more precious than the feelings of a malcontent Islamic fundamentalist. Could you imagine if this was in place in the 1920's, we may have never known the genius of HL Mencken. Edited March 11, 2009 by Canadian Blue Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Sometimes, China has better freedom of speech than Canada. For example: in China, one can say: "I will kill you" It can be joke. It can happen when a person express his hate to someone. It can happen for other reasons ... In Canada, when a person say this, he will be face accuse and sent to jail. Many things we can not find from media here that the topics are controlled by power people. It is hard to find different voices in mainstream media. For example, you can hardly find what different groups of Afghanistan people think when US invade it. Another example, you can not find the Chinese people's point of view on Tipet ( http://en.tibet328.cn/04/ ) although more than 10,000 went to Ottawa last April to express their different opinion. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Argus Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Sometimes, China has better freedom of speech than Canada You mean, like, if you're a high up member of the Communist Party. Otherwise, there are NO times China has better freedom of speech than Canada. Either you know nothing about China or nothing about Canada or nothing about what freedom of speech entails. Or you're just overall ignorant. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 If you thought the Macleans case was a sham, just wait for this proposal to be implemented. It's a non-binding resolution, which means it basically has no effect. It's typical third-world blather which seeks to supress any kind of criticism under the guise of protecting rights. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 You mean, like, if you're a high up member of the Communist Party.Otherwise, there are NO times China has better freedom of speech than Canada. Either you know nothing about China or nothing about Canada or nothing about what freedom of speech entails. Or you're just overall ignorant. I have never been a Chinese communist party member. I did write an application for the party when I was a university student. I never give it to anyone and threw it. I worked for many years in China branch of US company, German company when I was in China. Now I have been in Canada for 7 years. I went back to visit China last year and last January. I get information from both side, unlike most Chinese, they get information from China media only, unlike most Canadians, they get information from Canada/US media only. I am totally clear about the truth of current situation in both China and Canada. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Argus Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 I have never been a Chinese communist party member.I did write an application for the party when I was a university student. I never give it to anyone and threw it. I worked for many years in China branch of US company, German company when I was in China. Now I have been in Canada for 7 years. I went back to visit China last year and last January. I get information from both side, unlike most Chinese, they get information from China media only, unlike most Canadians, they get information from Canada/US media only. I am totally clear about the truth of current situation in both China and Canada. You simply think you are. But your statements about freedom of speech are more than adequate proof that you are not. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 You simply think you are. But your statements about freedom of speech are more than adequate proof that you are not. It has no point to talk about if I know the freedom of speech or not. What is your explanation on the facts I wrote in post #2? What is your proof for you statement "there are NO times China has better freedom of speech than Canada." in post #3? Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 What is your explanation on the facts I wrote in post #2? For example, you can hardly find what different groups of Afghanistan people think when US invade it. Untrue. there have been numerous opinion surveys of Afghans over the past 6 years What is your proof for you statement "there are NO times China has better freedom of speech than Canada." in post #3? The thousands who are jailed for free expression in China versus the none in Canada. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Untrue. there have been numerous opinion surveys of Afghans over the past 6 years Where is the survey, is it in US or in Canada? Is there any survey on the thinking of Afganistan people? And do you have a survey on how many Canadians know if there is different opinion on the war in Afghanistan people? And how many Canadians believe there was WMD exist in Iraq before the war launched? How many Iraqis think that exist? You can easily find the media has successfully controlled the thinking of most Canadians and Americans. So even if Canadians were given a chance to speak, they talk in a way the media wish them to say. Their personal thinking was disabled. That is the result of lack of freedom of speech so that media did not give enough information from every aspect. That is the result that some of politician loves for their own votes. The thousands who are jailed for free expression in China versus the none in Canada. Thousands? where did you get the information. There were some people jailed as you mentioned, however, they were not jailed for free expression, they were jailed for violence and become a threat to other peoples life and properties. I am sure if anyone did that kind of things in Canada, the cops will be much hard to deal with them than in China. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Where is the survey, is it in US or in Canada? Is there any survey on the thinking of Afganistan people? The surveys were done in Afhanistan And do you have a survey on how many Canadians know if there is different opinion on the war in Afghanistan people? I don't but you are free to do one yourself. Try soing one in China about the perception of Tibetan about China. Remember to pack a toothbrush. And how many Canadians believe there was WMD exist in Iraq before the war launched? How many Iraqis think that exist? How is that relevant to whether there is more fre speech in Canada than China? Do a survey of Chinese and see if they know about Mao's preference for very young girls... You can easily find the media has successfully controlled the thinking of most Canadians and Americans. Yes but then you need a tinfoil survey Thousands? where did you get the information. The Free Press What's remarkable is that such cases are known at all, say China experts. In fact, more than 4,000 political prisoners have been saved from obscurity by the Dui Hua Foundation in San Francisco. Their names go on lists shared with Western officials and presented to Chinese authorities, for better treatment and early release http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1121/p01s01-woap.html Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 bjre, Here's the Amnesty International report for 2008, on China: AI Growing numbers of human rights activists were imprisoned, put under house arrest or surveillance, or harassed. Repression of minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians, continued. Falun Gong practitioners were at particularly high risk of torture and other ill-treatment in detention. Christians were persecuted for practising their religion outside state-sanctioned channels. Despite the reinstatement of Supreme People’s Court review of death penalty cases, the death penalty remained shrouded in secrecy and continued to be used extensively. Torture of detainees and prisoners remained prevalent. Millions of people had no access to justice and were forced to seek redress through an ineffective extra-legal petition system. Women and girls continued to suffer violence and discrimination. Preparations for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing were marked by repression of human rights activists. Censorship of the internet and other media intensified. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 I don't but you are free to do one yourself. Try soing one in China about the perception of Tibetan about China. Remember to pack a toothbrush. I have no resource like the mainstream media have. How is that relevant to whether there is more fre speech in Canada than China? That is an aspect to see at least Canada is not better than China in free speech. Do a survey of Chinese and see if they know about Mao's preference for very young girls... Again lies come from non-sense source. The Free Press Controlled by CIA for aggressively acquire interest all over the world. http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1121/p01s01-woap.html With the similar purpose with WMD reports. Full of lies. May be based on the material from CIA. ----- Theoretically, Canada has better freedom of speech, practically, I did not find it. Why? because lawyers are too powerful here. So the decision made of the legal system is determined by the ability of the lawyer instead of fact. So every word you said can be an evidence against you. That greatly restricted the freedom of speech. Now someone want legislate on cyber-bully. While in China, the decision of the legal system is determined by fact, no oral evidence is considered unless you can provide record or written form. This makes Chinese feel free to talk any topic. If you go to China and able to understand what people talk, you will find the topics of every group of Chinese are very wide, they talk about what happened in US/Taiwan/Japan/France/Iraq/England/Canada and everywhere and they have ideas of that, lots of ideas are very different from government version, but when you come to Canada, most people just have no opinion / no interest about the most of such topics. They have much less interest in politics. They just care about sports or idols, which lots of Chinese people enjoy too. The media gives people selected information years and years here, no matter how smart you are, if you can not get enough correct information from every aspect, how can you draw correct conclusion. The most like result is you get something like blind men and elephant. So it is inevitably people will support Iraq war when they heard Iraq has WMD. And it is not surprise that people here fear of SARS when it was reported because they have so little correct knowledge of those. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 I have no resource like the mainstream media have. But you have exactly the same amount of freedom as mainstream media. That is an aspect to see at least Canada is not better than China in free speech. That is a non sequiter Again lies come from non-sense source. Sure it is....but would you have the freedom in China to find out for sure? No...not unless the Party was shitting on Mao's tomb. Controlled by CIA for aggressively acquire interest all over the world.With the similar purpose with WMD reports. Full of lies. May be based on the material from CIA. Are you wearing a tinfoil hat? Theoretically, Canada has better freedom of speech, practically, I did not find it.Why? because lawyers are too powerful here. At this point I will exersize my freedom to ignore nonsense... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Michael Hardner Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 The choice bjre seems to be providing us is: open government control of the media in China versus suspected/secret government control in the West by the CIA. And somehow the former is deemed to be more 'free' than the latter. Watch this: Mao was an idiot. China is in danger of collapsing. The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 were crushed by enemies of freedom. Now - nothing will happen to me for posting that. If I posted something like 'Morris Dancer hosts orgies', or even a falsehood such as 'Morris Dancer is a terrible orgy host' then perhaps he could sue me for slander. But that protects Morris' reputation (such as it is) and his rights more than it restricts my rights to express falsehoods. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
guyser Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 'Morris Dancer is a terrible orgy host' Ha, he'd lose. I had a horrible time at his last one. Not enough drinks. Quote
madmax Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Watch this:Mao was an idiot. China is in danger of collapsing. The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 were crushed by enemies of freedom. Now - nothing will happen to me for posting that. I will miss you. If I posted something like 'Morris Dancer hosts orgies', or even a falsehood such as 'Morris Dancer is a terrible orgy host' then perhaps he could sue me for slander. But that protects Morris' reputation (such as it is) and his rights more than it restricts my rights to express falsehoods. Does M.Dancer have a good lawyer? Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Does M.Dancer have a good lawyer? Yes but I also know a few good hookers... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
guyser Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Yes but I also know a few good hookers... Where were they? (all I saw were bea arthur and phyllis diller wannabees) Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 (all I saw were bea arthur and phyllis diller wannabees) That's because you kept hanging out with the fellows... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
guyser Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 That's because you kept hanging out with the fellows... I thought them adams apples were huge...I better lay off the drink Quote
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 bjre,Here's the Amnesty International report for 2008, on China: AI That is just another political tools funded by NED or CIA http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/usdefence/usd4.html Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
Michael Hardner Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Right, bjre. So you come to a free society and claim that all of the open sources of information are secretly run by other organizations. And this is your proof that we have less freedom of speech than China ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Right, bjre.So you come to a free society and claim that all of the open sources of information are secretly run by other organizations. I mean the media here does not always give correct information. It is not better than media in China. And people grow up in this environment may not be able to always make correct judgment because the un-perfect information they got. It is clear that the freedom of speech is not perfect here. The media here failed to prove the value of freedom of speech which they are proud of. And this is your proof that we have less freedom of speech than China ? I did not say "we have less freedom of speech than China." I said "Sometimes, China has better freedom of speech than Canada.", The proof I used is in post #2 It may have some advantage here, and have some disadvantage there. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
M.Dancer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 I did not say "we have less freedom of speech than China."I said "Sometimes, China has better freedom of speech than Canada.", The proof I used is in post #2 It may have some advantage here, and have some disadvantage there. Your proof is silly at best and I doubt it is even true. I would be willing to wager you would be arrested on the spot for yelling "I want Jintao dead" in any public place in China. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bjre Posted March 11, 2009 Report Posted March 11, 2009 Your proof is silly at best and I doubt it is even true.I would be willing to wager you would be arrested on the spot for yelling "I want Jintao dead" in any public place in China. That is a different story. And I won't say that, I don't hate him. Why need use that as a proof? It is too far away from my working and living. However, I have heard of "I will kill you" several times when I was in China when people quarreling, no one get arrested. Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
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