“If Israel has nothing to hide, why is it refusing to allow us in?”

[dub]

IDF Denies Human Rights Watch, B’Tselem Access to Gaza

“Israel’s refusal to allow human rights groups access to Gaza raises a strong suspicion that there are things it doesn’t want us to see or the world to know about its military operation there,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “If Israel has nothing to hide, why is it refusing to allow us in?”

[M.Dancer]

Let them enter through Egypt. Although reporting in an unbiased fashion often meas Hamas gunmen will shoot you.

GOOD LUCK HRW IN YOUR UNBIASED PROPAGANDA REPORTING

[dub]

Let them enter through Egypt. Although reporting in an unbiased fashion often meas Hamas gunmen will shoot you.

GOOD LUCK HRW IN YOUR UNBIASED PROPAGANDA REPORTING

could you show me where they've reported propaganda and not facts? i'm curious to know why you and dogonporch are so quick to discount HRW and i guess the other human rights organization which has not been granted a visit to the gaza strip to investigate what has happened.

[M.Dancer]

could you show me where they've reported propaganda and not facts? i'm curious to know why you and dogonporch are so quick to discount HRW and i guess the other human rights organization which has not been granted a visit to the gaza strip to investigate what has happened.

Oh are you the kind of person who thinks that propaganda doesn't contain facts? Or is that just a lame strawman attempt?

It's not the lack of facts that make propaganda, it is the interpretation.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/22/israel-ga...r_0122roth.html

Generally their target market for their propaganda are useful idiots who haven't a clue and get all misty eyed when the hear things like white phosforous....good to note they never explain that WP isn't used as an offensive weapon and why would they when HE is an offensive weapon and leaves the a nice biig hole.

But go ahead, lap it up, you amuse me..heck, even your plagiarism gave my a solid chuckle.

[dub]

Oh are you the kind of person who thinks that propaganda doesn't contain facts? Or is that just a lame strawman attempt?

It's not the lack of facts that make propaganda, it is the interpretation.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/22/israel-ga...r_0122roth.html

Generally their target market for their propaganda are useful idiots who haven't a clue and get all misty eyed when the hear things like white phosforous....good to note they never explain that WP isn't used as an offensive weapon and why would they when HE is an offensive weapon and leaves the a nice biig hole.

But go ahead, lap it up, you amuse me..heck, even your plagiarism gave my a solid chuckle.

thanx. great, you re-posted the link like it proves something.

again, lots of typing and no substance.

what comments has roth made that are untrue?

i mean, lets get to the juicy part of what this self-hating jew has said about israel's actions:

The IDF has tried to defend itself with denial and obfuscation. It first denied using white phosphorous at all. Then, when that proved untenable, it claimed that use was limited to unpopulated areas of Gaza. Neither claim is true. On Jan. 9, 10 and 15, a Human Rights Watch military expert personally observed white phosphorous being fired from an artillery battery and air burst over Gaza City and the Jabalya refugee camp.

what part of that is not true?

oh and what is roth's agenda again?

Edited February 27, 2009 by dub

[dub]

what about this quote that you don't have the balls to respond to in another thread:

The IDF cited press reports suggesting that the International Committee of the Red Cross supported its position, but in a rare public comment, the ICRC denied that claim.

what part of that is untrue? how is roth lying? didn't the red cross make that statement?

[M.Dancer]

what part of that is not true?

oh and what is roth's agenda again?

On Jan. 9, 10 and 15, a Human Rights Watch military expert personally observed white phosphorous being fired from an artillery battery and air burst over Gaza City and the Jabalya refugee camp.

I'm sure that is true and my comment is so what? If it is fired over the camp the end result would be a lot of smoke.

And here is where using a fact becomes propaganda. A lot is made about WP like it is a teror weapon, it is not. WP has only one use, making smoke. Just like your posts.

Israel probably denied it at first simoly because at first they probably were in a position to use it, at first. You wouldn't use WP till your troops are ready to advance, and the IDF troops were not advancing into the urban areas of Gaza till the offensive was well on its way.

Secondly I poo poo the HRC military expert...

[dub]

I'm sure that is true and my comment is so what? If it is fired over the camp the end result would be a lot of smoke.

And here is where using a fact becomes propaganda. A lot is made about WP like it is a teror weapon, it is not. WP has only one use, making smoke. Just like your posts.

Israel probably denied it at first simoly because at first they probably were in a position to use it, at first. You wouldn't use WP till your troops are ready to advance, and the IDF troops were not advancing into the urban areas of Gaza till the offensive was well on its way.

Secondly I poo poo the HRC military expert...

first you're all over some bogus report about red cross saying that israel didn't use WP illegally and then when the red cross releases a statement saying it has never made such a claim, you still try to make excuses?

lol.

Edited February 27, 2009 by dub

[JB Globe]

GOOD LUCK HRW IN YOUR UNBIASED PROPAGANDA REPORTING

You're insinuating through sarcasm that HRW is a biased organization, correct?

If that's the case, why do media and governments regularly cite their reports?

For example: Bush cited their reports on Saddam Hussein's human rights record to build his case for the US invasion of Iraq. Of course, he later completely discounted their reports on American human rights relating to Abu Gharib, Guantanamo, and US presence in Afghanistan and Iraq. The same codes of practice were followed in each case, so if one study is reliable than the other should be as well.

I think that example illustrates the role that HRW plays in the world, that they tell attempt to tell the ugly truth regardless of whom that truth is about.

As a result, people like to accept their findings when they're about "the enemy" and completely discount them when they're about their own nation, or in the case of Israel & Palestine, when they're about the side in the conflict a person happens to be rooting for.

[JB Globe]

I'm sure that is true and my comment is so what? If it is fired over the camp the end result would be a lot of smoke.

And here is where using a fact becomes propaganda. A lot is made about WP like it is a teror weapon, it is not. WP has only one use, making smoke. Just like your posts.

Either you are completely ignorant of the effects of WP on humans or you're being dishonest in an attempt to downplay a fact which could hurt your overall argument here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phospho...fects_on_humans

Your statement that WP fired into a crowded civilian area would only produce smoke, and cause no civilian causalities is utterly false as proven by the effects of using WP in Gaza during the conflict.

There is a reason why the use of WP is banned in civilian areas under the Geneva Conventions, Protocol III.

You also allude to it's lethal properties a few sentences later in an apparent contradiction:

You wouldn't use WP till your troops are ready to advance, and the IDF troops were not advancing into the urban areas of Gaza till the offensive was well on its way.

And of course, the reason you wouldn't use WP when your troops are actually on the ground is because it might burn their skin off.

Secondly I poo poo the HRC military expert...

I'm sorry, but it's not enough to offer your personal opinion that an expert isn't credible, you have to provide evidence that an expert isn't credible. None of us here are experts on international law, or military munitions, which is why we turn to expert sources (preferably, those without a conflict of interest on a given issue). We cannot simply discount expert opinions we find inconvenient, we have to prove why they are false.

Edited February 27, 2009 by JB Globe

[GostHacked]

Oh are you the kind of person who thinks that propaganda doesn't contain facts? Or is that just a lame strawman attempt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda

It's not the lack of facts that make propaganda, it is the interpretation.

Interpreting facts is not facts then, conjecture and probabilities. Hence propaganda.

Generally their target market for their propaganda are useful idiots who haven't a clue and get all misty eyed when the hear things like white phosforous....good to note they never explain that WP isn't used as an offensive weapon and why would they when HE is an offensive weapon and leaves the a nice biig hole.

The use of White Phosphorus in Gaza shows that it is not a defensive weapon at all. It was also used by the US after they invaded Iraq in 2003. And when they explain the opposite, they are using propaganda to tell you that they are not lying about lying.

[Oleg Bach]

The policy regarding the last dealings with Palistine was "kill as many as we can as quickly as we can" - that's why you can not have a look at this open air prison camp ---- you would think that the Jews would have learned - it makes one want to weep how quickly we forget the horror and go on auto pilot -- lip sincing mindless rhetoricals - and we become the evil we fight...it's heart breaking.