Are Harper and Obama Going to be Buddies?

[madmax]

I'm tired of people claiming that Iggy was appointed to Leader of Opposition and not elected. Are you guys drunk? Anyone in opposition can become Opposition Leader.

Same argument can be made for Prime Minister as well. Few here are drunk, but we are opinionated.

[Progressive Tory]

Hillary Clinton is a great politician and her husband was great too. What is it that you neocons hate about the Clinton years? The peace or the prosperity. You guys had better be careful what you wish for (conservative majority) since they will bring along banning abortion, cutting healthcare funding, economic mismanagement like in the Mulroney years, destroying women's rights, abandoning aboriginal programs, discrimination in immigration, U.S. style governance, etc.

Exactly. Though I don't think Harper has much of a chance of ever getting a majority unless Hell really does freeze over.

[Progressive Tory]

Hey buddy Hitler was not right wing he was a socialist

No he wasn't. He hated socialism.

"At this time the Nazi party was one of many small extremist groups in Munich, but Hitler soon discovered he had two remarkable talents, one for public oratory and another for inspiring personal loyalty. His street-corner oratory, attacking Jews, socialists and liberals, capitalists and Communists, began attracting adherents."

"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in attributing the political beliefs of Adolf Hitler. His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance although anti-Semitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an "Aryan race" and an extreme form of German nationalism were steady themes. Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism."

[margrace]

Smart people, when they have nothing of value to contribute, wisely keep silent.

Then again, if you used a standard like that you'd never speak or write again.

Did you ever listen to yourself, no most speak first.

[madmax]

You guys had better be careful what you wish for (conservative majority) since they will bring along banning abortion, cutting healthcare funding, economic mismanagement like in the Mulroney years, destroying women's rights, abandoning aboriginal programs, discrimination in immigration, U.S. style governance, etc.

1) Banning Abortion

I have seen many a Conservative Candidate since 2004 state that they will NOT ban abortions or change the laws. While there are more Conservatives who wish to ban abortion, they do not have a monopoly on the issue as there are Liberals who support banning abortions. However, looking at the MLW poll on Abortions, you will clearly see that there is Insignificant levels of support to ban abortions. Probably the biggest eye opening poll on MLW, as the stereotypical Conservative for abortion propoganda was crushed. I do not see this issue changing under any government except one headed by the Christian Heritage Party.

2) Cutting Healthcare Funding

The Liberals have a strangle hold on cutting health care funding. They could have a slogan. Bleeding Canadians of Public Health Care since 1995. A Liberal Majority will cut health care funding and let the Provinces deal with the fallout. The Conservative may implement OPENLY a two tier health care system if they receive a majority. The Liberals support a two tier Private Medicine system, but wish to keep that out of the public sphere.

Ottawa private medical clinic offers 5-hour, $1,200 checkup

Last Updated: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 | 5:41 PM ET

CBC News

A private clinic that recently opened in Ottawa's Kanata district is offering patients a thorough five-hour physical checkup if they agree to pay $1,200 out of their own pockets.

Dr. Hassan Sannoufi said he opened his private clinic because the public system didn't allow him to take the time and care he wanted with each patient.

(CBC)

But critics, including at least one doctor, say the clinic's business model is also costing the public health care system a bundle.

Dr. Brian Day will assume the presidency of the Canadian Medical Association this year (see corrections below) at a time of massive and unexpected change in his profession. He himself is emblematic of the new realities. The Vancouver orthopaedic surgeon is one of the country's leading practitioners of for-profit health care.

Public health care advocates are furious B.C. Liberal Attorney-General Wally Oppal and a top provincial health official are speaking at a pro-privatized Medicare conference next month in Vancouver.

The conference is organized by outspoken private B.C. medical clinic operators Dr. Brian Day and Dr. Mark Godley, both top advocates of for-profit health care.

Other speakers include private health-care supporters such as former Reform Party leader Preston Manning, now with the right-wing Fraser Institute

Liberals don't necessarily care about a public health care system, they care about polling data, and many Liberals Support Health Care Privatization and have regular meetings with the lobbyists.

3) Economic Mismanagement

Liberal Economic Management was done on the backs of the Provinces who downloaded to the Municipalities. The fiscal management was forced upon them by the Reformists who demonstrated what they could do to Parties that behaved like the Mulroney Government. Had the Liberal Government come in with the same mindset as the Mulroney and Trudeau era, then they two would have been driving to work with all their MPs filling the seats of a Corvette by next Election.

The Liberals have no greater grasp of the economy today, or they wouldn't have supported a budget that is fiscally weak. The Liberals have chosen to support this budget.

The one significant factor the Liberals do have over the Conservatives, is that the Conservatives have not been able to demonstrate fiscal responsibility in a growing economy. They lost surplusses and ran deficits and have Canada in weaker position going into this recession.

The Liberals however, balanced the budget on the backs of the employees by taking from EI surplusses to use on their own pet projects. The Liberals also reduced EI payouts, accessability, and time on EI to increase the level of EI coming in vs the amount to pay out.

Stealing from the EI fund is not necessarily the strongest economic policy, when riding into a recession. It would be unlikely that they could use this mechanism in the future to run a surplus.

4) Destroying Womens Rights.

Women fight for womens rights. Not the Liberal Party or any other for that matter. The Liberals have clearly chosen not to defend one issue that Women fought to have have and took decades to achieve. Pay Equity. The Liberals have said that the removal of Pay equity is OK by them. Infact the Liberal Position is identical to the Conservative Position.

5) Abandoning Aboriginal Programs

Resolving Native Land Claims is one of the most important Aboriginal Programs today. The Conservatives have resolved More Land Claims in 2 years, then the Liberals did in 13 years. The problems that the Conservatives face today are the same ones the Liberals ignored. (For those living in Southern Ontario, The Six Nations Land Claims, have been separated from all National Land Claims. OF the 28 known Claims, NONE have been resolved, and the Conservatives have been ABYSMAL in addressing ALL claims onlong the Grand River. However, having watched the Liberals in action in the last election, Mr. Ignatieff naively said he could solve the Six Nations Land claims in 6 months.

6) Discrimination in Immigration

Don't worry, immigrants coming to Canada, are being used as cheap labour. The Immigrant worker program is discriminatory to those living in Canada. Immigrants who come to live in Canada, are very discouraged by the lack of opportunity and redtape blocking the use their skills in our labour market. Many are the victims of Temp services. The Friends of Provincial LIberals and Conservatives everywhere.

View this however you like

The Temporary Foreign Worker Program and its Intersection with Canadian Immigration Policy

2008-02-13 14:23

.......received October 10 2007, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration (CIC), the Honourable Diane Finley, makes mention of her intention to introduce “a new Canadian Experience Class of immigration.” Confirming what had already been suggested in Budget 2007, i Minister Finley defines the new immigration class as follows:

This class will compliment the current skilled worker stream by supporting permanent residency for some candidates who have established their likelihood of integrating successfully into the Canadian economy through their successful participation in the Canadian workforce. ........ the increasing use of migrant labour in Canada (March 2006), iii what is likely is that temporary migrant workers will be granted the right to apply for permanent residency upon the recommendation of their employers. More specifically, following a certain period of employment – during which employers will be able to ‘test’ workers for their suitability – some temporary migrant workers, as stated in Minister Finley’s letter, will be granted permission to apply for permanent residency.

Whatever you think of this, The Liberals would do the same.

6) US style of Goverance.

Look at the thread title. We are enthralled to have Obama in Canada. Watch as Harper gets on the Obama bandwagon. The Democrats in the US are very close to the Conservatives in Canada in terms of policy.

Infact, Mr. Harper may have to take a stronger position in Afghanistan, because of US influence. Obama is going to do, what Bush Couldn't. Influence Canadian Policy without threats. Remember those threats from Republicans???

I think Harper will become an Obama Follower. Our policies will mimick the US in the next term, no matter our Government is Liberal or Conservative, minority or majority.

[Progressive Tory]

I was surprised to hear that Obama has read some of Ignatieff's books. I have also heard that the Iggy/Obama meeting was more cordial and warm than either with Harper or the GG. I am looking forward to this relationship as the next time Obama comes to Canada, Iggy will be P.M.

Just catching up but Obama is a fan of Ignatieff's writing. I was also glad that Ignatieff got a full half hour. Obama extended his stay.

Ignatieff impressed by meeting with Obama

"The Liberal leader had a half-hour meeting with Obama at the end of the president's whirlwind, six-hour visit to Ottawa on Thursday."

Ignatieff Has Friends In High Places In Obama's White House

As for Ignatieff's connections to Obama's inner circle, Teneycke (Harper's director of communication) scoffed: "It is not surprising, given that he spent most of his professional life in the United States ... Actually, Ignatieff worked only five years in the U.S., as director of the Carr Centre for Human Rights Policy at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government. Another Conservative who can't add.

Ignatieff is good friends with Samantha Power, a senior adviser to Obama during his presidential campaign, a member of his transition team and now a member of the National Security Council.

Ignatieff met Power, a Pulitzer Prize winning author, journalist and academic, when he became director of the Carr Centre. Power was the centre's founding executive director. He also became friends with Power's husband, Cass Sunstein, a Harvard professor and constitutional law expert who now heads up the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs.

And he got to know Larry Summers, president of Harvard during Ignatieff's stint at the Carr Centre. Obama has appointed Summers as director of the National Economic Council.

Ignatieff also enjoys a number of connections with the Obama White House that pre-date his time at Harvard. For instance, as a journalist, Ignatieff accompanied Richard Holbrooke, special envoy to the Balkans for then-president Bill Clinton, as he attempted to head off the 1999 Kosovo war. Holbrooke, now Obama's special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, featured prominently in Ignatieff's subsequent book, Virtual War.

Liberal Leader Ignatieff gets 30 minutes with Obama

"Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff got the 30 minutes he wanted with President Barack Obama Thursday.... "He was even kind enough to say he read a few of my books," Ignatieff, a prolific author, said. "

[madmax]

Facism is not on the right side of the spectrum. I don't really think their is a true right left line in ideology.

Some consider Idealogy of the right and left a circle. Fascism is to the right policitalically, as Totalatarian Communism is to the extreme left. Then they meet. Fascism appealed to the people with right wing leanings, while socialism appealed to those on the left. Ofcourse the whole concept of left and right comes from where people sat in government.

[jdobbin]

I have seen many a Conservative Candidate since 2004 state that they will NOT ban abortions or change the laws. While there are more Conservatives who wish to ban abortion, they do not have a monopoly on the issue as there are Liberals who support banning abortions.

It is hard to say what a Harper government would do with a majority. I don't think they would ban abortion but I do think new abortion laws would be introduced if not by the government but by private member's bills from the government side.

Cutting Healthcare Funding

The Liberals have a strangle hold on cutting health care funding. They could have a slogan. Bleeding Canadians of Public Health Care since 1995. A Liberal Majority will cut health care funding and let the Provinces deal with the fallout. The Conservative may implement OPENLY a two tier health care system if they receive a majority. The Liberals support a two tier Private Medicine system, but wish to keep that out of the public sphere.

This is said without acknowledging the restoration of funding by the same Liberals who cut in years prior to end the deficit.

Liberals don't necessarily care about a public health care system, they care about polling data, and many Liberals Support Health Care Privatization and have regular meetings with the lobbyists.

This is said as a purely partisan shot.

Economic Mismanagement

Liberal Economic Management was done on the backs of the Provinces who downloaded to the Municipalities. The fiscal management was forced upon them by the Reformists who demonstrated what they could do to Parties that behaved like the Mulroney Government. Had the Liberal Government come in with the same mindset as the Mulroney and Trudeau era, then they two would have been driving to work with all their MPs filling the seats of a Corvette by next Election.

Forced upon them by Reform? I think you forget that Liberals elected many fiscal conservatives in the 1990s and that was a driving force in turning back from the freespending days of earlier Liberal governments.

As for the provinces dumping things to the municipalities, you are correct. Rather than continuing to fund things they said were priorities, the provinces cut taxes instead as well as services and dumped a lot on the municipalities while constraining how those jurisdictions would raise money

The Liberals have no greater grasp of the economy today, or they wouldn't have supported a budget that is fiscally weak. The Liberals have chosen to support this budget.

The Liberals chose not to go into an election or a coalition. The NDP vote against all Tory budgets and only support Liberal ones.

The one significant factor the Liberals do have over the Conservatives, is that the Conservatives have not been able to demonstrate fiscal responsibility in a growing economy. They lost surplusses and ran deficits and have Canada in weaker position going into this recession.

And this is why they face problems with their own base. Some will simply not vote or be more willing to vote Liberal next time if Ignatieff indicates a willingness to constrain spending.

Given the history in the 1990s, the Liberals can now run on a record of reducing spending.

The Liberals however, balanced the budget on the backs of the employees by taking from EI surplusses to use on their own pet projects. The Liberals also reduced EI payouts, accessability, and time on EI to increase the level of EI coming in vs the amount to pay out.

True save for the pet projects unless you mean the pet project was ending the deficit.

The courts determined it was legal to take the surpluses initially but later on, the government did it without Parliamentary authority and this was illegal.

I had no problem with EI reform to break the cycle of a scant number of weeks employment for year round insurance but the Liberals used EI for funds on an annual basis.

I believe the deficit could have been broken without resorting to this sort of raiding. In fact, corporate tax and GST revenue would have done the trick albeit, it would have been a little longer.

Stealing from the EI fund is not necessarily the strongest economic policy, when riding into a recession. It would be unlikely that they could use this mechanism in the future to run a surplus.

I don't it is necessary at all since simply reigning in spending will do the trick along with a recovering economy.

Destroying Womens Rights.

Women fight for womens rights. Not the Liberal Party or any other for that matter. The Liberals have clearly chosen not to defend one issue that Women fought to have have and took decades to achieve. Pay Equity. The Liberals have said that the removal of Pay equity is OK by them. Infact the Liberal Position is identical to the Conservative Position.

The government was not able to gets its pay equity legislation through last session because the Liberals opposed it. I have seen no indication that Liberals have changed their view although the Tories hid pay equity in the latest budget.

Abandoning Aboriginal Programs

Resolving Native Land Claims is one of the most important Aboriginal Programs today. The Conservatives have resolved More Land Claims in 2 years, then the Liberals did in 13 years.

That claim has been dismissed by many aboriginal groups.

Discrimination in Immigration

Don't worry, immigrants coming to Canada, are being used as cheap labour. The Immigrant worker program is discriminatory to those living in Canada. Immigrants who come to live in Canada, are very discouraged by the lack of opportunity and redtape blocking the use their skills in our labour market. Many are the victims of Temp services. The Friends of Provincial LIberals and Conservatives everywhere.

You leave out the provincial NDP?

I'm not convinced on the cheap labour argument.

US style of Goverance.

I think Harper will become an Obama Follower. Our policies will mimick the US in the next term, no matter our Government is Liberal or Conservative, minority or majority.

Only the NDP federally would take opposing views on NAFTA and foreign affairs?

[Alta4ever]

No he wasn't. He hated socialism.

"At this time the Nazi party was one of many small extremist groups in Munich, but Hitler soon discovered he had two remarkable talents, one for public oratory and another for inspiring personal loyalty. His street-corner oratory, attacking Jews, socialists and liberals, capitalists and Communists, began attracting adherents."

"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in attributing the political beliefs of Adolf Hitler. His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance although anti-Semitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an "Aryan race" and an extreme form of German nationalism were steady themes. Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism."

He was sent by another party to spy on what was to become the Nsap/ or Nazi party, he became interested and enthralled and eventually converted over to this socalist. He later changed the name to the national socialist policy. He beleived in government control of economy and social concerns. he attacked all political rivals, because they were polictical rivals. I know this is difficult for you people to understand because you continually swallow the crap you are spoon fed, but look at the actual economic policies and results of what both he and mussolini did and you will find socialism and the government domination over all life in the country. Both Stalin and Hilter had 5 year economic plans, the difference hilter allowed owners to stay in chage of the business, even though he mussed that it would have been if he could nationalize them, but did not to keep the upper class in his camp. It was playing politics.

You need ot read some history books instead of just swallowing everything that your high school social teacher told you and the tv programs.

This comes from the books Hitlers Disciples, the Final Solution, and IBM and the Holocaust. HIlter was by no means right wing, and maybe with a little reading about him and his political party and the lead up to world war two you might see the truth and not the brainwashing you have received by the socialists.

[Alta4ever]

Some consider Idealogy of the right and left a circle. Fascism is to the right policitalically, as Totalatarian Communism is to the extreme left. Then they meet. Fascism appealed to the people with right wing leanings, while socialism appealed to those on the left. Ofcourse the whole concept of left and right comes from where people sat in government.

That doesn't explain why it was the left that was enamored with the facists from 1900 thru the 1930's. It was porgressives and liberals that wanted to try Mussolini's experiment in both Canada and the US. Even Woodrow Wilson implimented some of the same policies as mussolini.

[Alta4ever]

Really... the google is your friend

No history books are my friend. leftwing academa has perpetuated the myth of facists being right wing as they are too proud to admit that it was their ilk that wanted to dable in Facism at the turn of the century. They wanted to give you something to fear on the right so they would be able to enact their social policies.

[Argus]

Yes he can, but usually doesn't.

Back that claim up. When hasn't he?

Obama knows exactly who Stephen Harper is, and ideologically they are complete opposites.

Which simply shows you know as little about Obama as you do about Harper.

[Argus]

This is said without acknowledging the restoration of funding by the same Liberals who cut in years prior to end the deficit.

They never fully restored it, despite having years of huge surpluses which they desperately tried to hide and squirel away under various accounting tricks.

They only really started to restore funding when polls showed they were starting to fall.

This is said as a purely partisan shot.

I disagree. The Liberals claimed health care was a "sacred trust" every election, then ignored it, letting it deteriorate year after year while doing nothing. There is no indication the Liberals care at all about health care in Canada beyond what will improve their polling chances.

[Argus]

I think I'm going to like you SSD. I'm often alone in supporting Ignatieff,

Uhm, no, you are alone in worshipping Ignatieff, though.

[Argus]

1 MINUTE LATER your one line topicial contribution...

Bravo.

I am often short in my replies to foolish posts. However, the sum total of my postings over a vast array of subject matter is far more of a contribution to this site than the snivelling drivel which is your normal "contribution".

[Alta4ever]

Not me. Don't collect autographs or put posters on my wall. Never did. People have to earn my respect and loyalty. Obama represents hope after eight years of evil. He was in the right place at the right time.

Ya right, OBAMA has accomplished nothing he has done nothing but do the same old same old liberal democrat politics so much for hope and change.

All Obama ever could do was enthrall people with his speeches he is nothing but an empty suit helped by Henry Kissenger.

[Argus]

Its not that tough actually. To tell you the truth, I am glad Obama is working with the government since without him, they'd probably be talking about bailing out the oil companies and introducing a tax on green technologies. Without Obama, Harper would be lost and this is our government and Harper is our P.M., so its better to know that they are going to try to at least appear to agree with the Obama administration so that we don't have to fear a hard right wing/Hitler-esque agenda.

How do you manage it? How do you get every post to be stupider than the one which preceded it? You have an extraordinary talent, sir.

[Argus]

Canadians needed this and wanted this. It was worth every traffic jam.

Said the woman who wasn't in any of them...

[Argus]

Did you ever listen to yourself, no most speak first.

I'm not sure but - was this unintelliglble sentence meant as a question?

[Argus]

Not me. Don't collect autographs or put posters on my wall. Never did. People have to earn my respect and loyalty.

Just not very bloody hard.

Now I have nothing really against Ignatieff or Obama, but my feelings towards politicians in general tends to be on the lower end of the spectrum of admiration, and I can't, for the life of me, understand why so many people can treat a politician as some kind of combination religious icon and rock guitar god. That people came from Toronto iand stood in the cold on Parliament Hill for hours n hopes of catching a ten second glimpse of Obama from a great distance boggles the mind. The man has yet to accomplish anything of note other than self-advancement. And your expressed attitude towards both Iganatieff and Obama leans towards that of an awe-struck rock groupie fawning over the latest cute teen boy-band.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Argus

[waldo]

Facism is not on the right side of the spectrum.

Really... the google is your friend

No history books are my friend. leftwing academa has perpetuated the myth of facists being right wing as they are too proud to admit that it was their ilk that wanted to dable in Facism at the turn of the century. They wanted to give you something to fear on the right so they would be able to enact their social policies.

but, but, but... where do them there social conservatives fit within your profound revelations? What's being used to set fear (and damnation!) upon social conservatives to enable their social policy enactments?

really, c'mon - you should give yourself a well deserved wikipedia break

[waldo]

All Obama ever could do was enthrall people with his speeches he is nothing but an empty suit helped by Henry Kissenger.

your empty suit rhetoric pales in comparison to the attacks from the Republicans on candidate Obama’s legitimacy during the U.S. presidential election campaign. He has a significant resume, both political and educational. Perhaps you subscribe to the Rush Limpballs school openly advocating for an Obama failure. I do believe Obama has his Secretary of State now… no need for your Kissinger obscufication.

Edited February 20, 2009 by waldo

[guyser]

You've never been here, have you.

Many many times, and even in 'rush hour'. Although in Ottawa's case it should be referred to as rush minutes.

Hell, even Manotick has a rush hour....or so they call it.

[OddSox]

Many many times, and even in 'rush hour'. Although in Ottawa's case it should be referred to as rush minutes.

Heh, I guess you missed the transit strike...

Hell, even Manotick has a rush hour....or so they call it.

Only on the river...

[guyser]

Heh, I guess you missed the transit strike...

Ok, you got me on that one, yes the traffic was bad during that strike. It is the reason I didnt come up for the World Junior tourney (my brother was a delegate for the Kazak team)