kimmy Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 This must have been a tremendously disappointing day for Canada's lefties. I know they've had so much hope invested in the idea that Mr Obama would come to Ottawa and express some of their indignation at Mr Harper for them. I know they've been hoping that Mr Harper would do something completely disastrous, like serving a lunch of fried chicken and watermelon. Darn it, it looks like everything went swimmingly. Darn it, that darned Mr Obama came to Ottawa and conducted himself like a professional. Darn it, that darned Mr Harper conducted himself like a professional as well. Darn it all. Why didn't Jack Layton or Gilles Duceppe get to see him? Mr Obama probably said in advance that he had no interest in forming a coalition with Mr Layton. Mr Obama probably said in advance that he was not interested in hearing one of Mr Duceppe's colourful "alternative histories". Maybe some day Mr Duceppe will be Presidente of his own country, and Mr Obama will visit him in person. Until such time, he doesn't matter. And Action Jack will never matter. Or is that normal? God, I hope so. If Obama told you to go out and kill blonde people you'd snatch your carving knife from the rack and be running out onto the street before you he finished speaking. Would you please stop putting ideas in her head? My life is filled with far too much excitement already, thank you. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
SSD Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 This must have been a tremendously disappointing day for Canada's lefties. I know they've had so much hope invested in the idea that Mr Obama would come to Ottawa and express some of their indignation at Mr Harper for them. I know they've been hoping that Mr Harper would do something completely disastrous, like serving a lunch of fried chicken and watermelon. Darn it, it looks like everything went swimmingly. Darn it, that darned Mr Obama came to Ottawa and conducted himself like a professional. Darn it, that darned Mr Harper conducted himself like a professional as well. Darn it all. I heard the Harper on the phone months ago called him and tried to talk like a black guy but Barack told him to act professionally and treat him the way he would to a white guy. I also heard that Harper wanted to wear baggy jeans and a doo-rag and to walk like a gangsta but his chief-of-staff told him not to. The reason why this trip was only 6-7 hours was because the PMO staff told the White House staff that they didn't want to give Harper a big enough opportunity to unknowingly offend Barack Obama since Harper has never seen a black man before. Quote
kimmy Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 I heard the Harper on the phone months ago called him and tried to talk like a black guy but Barack told him to act professionally and treat him the way he would to a white guy. I also heard that Harper wanted to wear baggy jeans and a doo-rag and to walk like a gangsta but his chief-of-staff told him not to. The reason why this trip was only 6-7 hours was because the PMO staff told the White House staff that they didn't want to give Harper a big enough opportunity to unknowingly offend Barack Obama since Harper has never seen a black man before. As I said, I realize today must have been a very tough day for you guys. Try to keep your chin up. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
SSD Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 As I said, I realize today must have been a very tough day for you guys. Try to keep your chin up. -k Its not that tough actually. To tell you the truth, I am glad Obama is working with the government since without him, they'd probably be talking about bailing out the oil companies and introducing a tax on green technologies. Without Obama, Harper would be lost and this is our government and Harper is our P.M., so its better to know that they are going to try to at least appear to agree with the Obama administration so that we don't have to fear a hard right wing/Hitler-esque agenda. Quote
Alta4ever Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Its not that tough actually. To tell you the truth, I am glad Obama is working with the government since without him, they'd probably be talking about bailing out the oil companies and introducing a tax on green technologies. Without Obama, Harper would be lost and this is our government and Harper is our P.M., so its better to know that they are going to try to at least appear to agree with the Obama administration so that we don't have to fear a hard right wing/Hitler-esque agenda. Hey buddy Hitler was not right wing he was a socialist as was Musolini do a little reaseach about were their political minds started and finished and you will find it was in socialist parties. The difference between socialism and facism is a Nationalistic senitment, that is it. Both advocate a planned society, both advocate a government planned economy, both seek to silence opposition. If you feel that you have to fear the right and Harper you better have a look at the demons in the closet of liberalism and progessivism. Both for some reason were in love with Mussolini and his great facist experiment when it was new movement. They attached themselves to the idea of eugenics, among other questionable "ideas". A bail out of oil companies never was advocated by the right even when the hated bush was in the whitehouse. I think its time you stepped away from the smoke and mirror scary conservative leftist tactics of 2004, its old news. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Hey buddy Hitler was not right wing he was a socialist Actually, Nazism is very strange in that it is a combination of socialism and totalitarianism. It blends the worst aspects of both sides of spectrum. Quote
Alta4ever Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Actually, Nazism is very strange in that it is a combination of socialism and totalitarianism. It blends the worst aspects of both sides of spectrum. I'm not so sure that they are from opposite side of the spectrum as Karl Marx said socialism was a stepping stone between capitalism and communism. Totalitarian states seem to be something of the left side of the spectrum as well. Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems whereby a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life. Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror tactics. The term has been applied to many states, including: the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, German Democratic Republic (East Germany), Socialist Republic of Romania, People's Socialist Republic of Albania, Ethiopia, People's Republic of China, Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) [2] and Communist Czechoslovakia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Totalitarian states seem to be something of the left side of the spectrum as well. It can be from either side. The word I was actually looking for was fascism. Either side of the spectrum can be controlling. Quote
SSD Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 It can be from either side. The word I was actually looking for was fascism. Either side of the spectrum can be controlling. Very true. People from the right thinks that all things bad comes from the left. Hussein and Hitler were both fascists (right wing) and were very nationalistic. Right wing does not equal small government as you can see down south. The thing the social conservative forget is that interfering in a woman's health issues (abortion illegality), gay rights, criminalizing marijuana are all signs of big government but that we only equate when it comes to fiscal issues. Quote
Alta4ever Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 It can be from either side. The word I was actually looking for was fascism. Either side of the spectrum can be controlling. Facism is not on the right side of the spectrum. I don't really think their is a true right left line in ideology. The left right argement has deemed ot be wrong as two opposite spectrums of political thought. I now seen the idea of quadrants applied as well, but I still don't think the professors have it right. I think that the ideologies are more of a progression from an from little rule to total rule. IE anarchy to libertarian, conservative, moderate, liberalism, progressivism, socialism and here a split in the line to either facism or communism, as socialism has been proven to be the path to both. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Very true. People from the right thinks that all things bad comes from the left. Hussein and Hitler were both fascists (right wing) and were very nationalistic. Right wing does not equal small government as you can see down south. The thing the social conservative forget is that interfering in a woman's health issues (abortion illegality), gay rights, criminalizing marijuana are all signs of big government but that we only equate when it comes to fiscal issues. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN READ, FACISM DOES NOT FIT WITH THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM, IN THE WAY YOU THINK IT DOES, IT IS A PERVERSION OF SOCIALISM. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 This must have been a tremendously disappointing day for Canada's lefties. I know they've had so much hope invested in the idea that Mr Obama would come to Ottawa and express some of their indignation at Mr Harper for them. I'm not really a Leftie, though lately that term only means a non-Harper fan. I wasn't cheering for him to screw up, just not embarass us by posturing over the tar sands. He promised to start focusing on the environment, and I do hope for once he keeps his word. I've never liked Stephen Harper, beginning with his criticism of Chretien over Iraq, but never started hating him until December and his shameful campaign to keep his job. I wanted the Obama visit to be positive, and even if it was mostly show and photo-ops; I think he left with a positive impression, and left Canadians with the same. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 but he can put on a very good face when representing Canada. Yes he can, but usually doesn't. Obama knows exactly who Stephen Harper is, and ideologically they are complete opposites. But that didn't show. Harper appeared humbled and Obama gracious. It set a nice tone. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
waldo Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 Fascism is not on the right side of the spectrum. Really... the google is your friend Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 They're not the leaders of the Official Opposition (though they did try to play that on TV :-). Thanks. I wasn't sure of the protocol. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 "They both come from modest backgrounds, "Too funny. Who, Harper and Obama? Obama may have, but Harper certainly didn't. An upper class wasp neighbourhood. His farther was an executive at Imperial Oil. Hardly modest. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 "They both come from modest backgrounds, "Too funny. Who, Harper and Obama? Obama may have, but Harper certainly didn't. An upper class wasp neighbourhood. His farther was an executive at Imperial Oil. Hardly modest. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 You say Iggy came back to Canada to collect a public pension? Wow, I though that's why ALL politicans are politicans . BTW, Iggy was asked by the Lib organizers to come back to run for the Lib party, when Paul Martin retired. A little food for thought. "Michael Ignatieff is a recognized historian, a fiction writer and public intellectual[7] who has written several books on international relations and nation building. His sixteen fiction and non-fiction books have been translated into twelve languages.... Maclean's named him among the "Top 10 Canadian Who's Who" in 1997 and one of the "50 Most Influential Canadians Shaping Society" in 2002. In 2003, Maclean's named him Canada's "Sexiest Cerebral Man."[8] Ignatieff's history of his family's experiences in nineteenth-century Russia (and subsequent exile), The Russian Album, won the Canadian 1987 Governor General's Award for Non-Fiction and the British Royal Society of Literature's Heinemann Prize. His 1998 biography of Isaiah Berlin was shortlisted for both the Jewish Quarterly Literary Prize for Non-Fiction and the James Tait Black Memorial Prize. His text on Western interventionist policies and nation building, Virtual War: Kosovo and Beyond, analyzes the NATO bombing of Kosovo and its subsequent aftermath. It won the Orwell Prize for political non-fiction in 2000.[9] Ignatieff worked with the International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty in preparing the report, The Responsibility to Protect, which examined the role of international involvement in Kosovo and Rwanda, and advocated a framework for 'humanitarian' intervention in future humanitarian crises. Ignatieff's general line is to highlight the moral imperative to intervene for humanitarian and other high motives, rejecting isolationism, but then drawing attention to practical and systematic limitations to successful interventions. His 2003 book, Empire Lite, argued that the post-intervention efforts in Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan were under-equipped to deal with the near-intractable problems they were facing. His book on the dangers of ethnic nationalism in the post-Cold War period, Blood and Belonging: Journeys into the New Nationalism, won the Gordon Montador Award for Best Canadian Book on Social Issues and the University of Toronto's Lionel Gelber Prize.[10] Blood and Belonging was based on Ignatieff's Gemini Award winning 1993 television series of the same name. In 2004, he published The Lesser Evil: Political Ethics in an Age of Terror, a philosophical work analyzing human rights in the post-9/11 world. The book was a finalist for the Lionel Gelber Prize, and attracted considerable attention for its attempts to reconcile the democratic ideals of western liberal societies with the often-coercive nature of the War on Terrorism. Ignatieff also writes fiction; one of his novels, Scar Tissue, was short-listed for the Booker Prize. In addition to writing, he has been a guest lecturer in a variety of settings. He delivered the Massey Lectures in 2000. Entitled The Rights Revolution, the series was released in print later that year. He has been a participant and panel leader at the World Economic Forum in Geneva. Ignatieff was ranked 37th on the list of top public intellectuals prepared by Prospect and Foreign Policy magazines.[11] Do you think he needs the job or the pension? He has a chance to make a difference and put Canada back on the map. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 Obama's visit was a pain in the ass. They were closing roads down over an hour before the great man whizzed down them. They even closed down roads which passed over or under ,or crossed the ones he intended - eventually - to drive down - with a 50 car entourage. While Obama was buying his cookies downtown there were cops blocking off a major on-ramp near where I work, and they'd been blocking it off for over an hour in ancitipation of him coming that way. Canadians needed this and wanted this. It was worth every traffic jam. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 that is because you and a lot of the masses are celebrity worshiping sheep. BAAAAAAA Not me. Don't collect autographs or put posters on my wall. Never did. People have to earn my respect and loyalty. Obama represents hope after eight years of evil. He was in the right place at the right time. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 Not the fact that it was directed at you, just the line itself. You're right, however, only my dog tells me who to kill. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 The GG and Obama will be buddies much like the legendary romance of Peter McKay and what's her name the brake pad lady from Aurora - but it will end badly...as for Harper and Obama - conservatives like the idea of a well spoken front man but it must irk them that they had to put forth a coloured boy (old school for someone who is not from Africa nor reall America) Biden and the Bankers will become buddies - but they always were anyway.. In the Canadians love Obama poll, the West were less impressed. Less than half liked him, especially in Alberta. I don't think it's the black thing though, just the environmental thing. They miss Bush who didn't give a damn. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 I'm tired of people claiming that Iggy was appointed to Leader of Opposition and not elected. Are you guys drunk? Anyone in opposition can become Opposition Leader. It doesn't necessarily have to be a party leader. If the Liberal caucus, in unison, wanted, they could make Ralph Goodle the Opposition Leader. Hell, if the NDP and Bloc came to some sort of agreement, they could make Gilles or Jack the opposition leader without any change to party structure. So stop your crying. Its a ceremonial title with some actual perks. Parties actually have no official role in parliament. The Governor General selects the P.M. to form a government (with anyone from any party) and she also chooses the Leader of the Opposition to form his official opposition. You're absolutely right. Thank you. If you read the history of PMs in Canada, they never say 'elected' - just 'designated'. All 308 MPs are elected, all other positions are appointments. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Posted February 20, 2009 I was surprised to hear that Obama has read some of Ignatieff's books. I have also heard that the Iggy/Obama meeting was more cordial and warm than either with Harper or the GG. I am looking forward to this relationship as the next time Obama comes to Canada, Iggy will be P.M. and Harper will have his meeting with Obama in a washroom when Obama is taking a crap. A lot of people complain the Iggy was planted into his riding. Why do people have a problem with this. If your not a member of the party living in that riding (which is probably only a few hundred), then what makes your stomach ache about this. Same thing goes with the party leadership. The other candidates dropped out. Rae never spoke to Iggy about his decision beforehand. There was supposed to be a quick early vote instead of a convention and completely within the party constitution. I don't see you guys complaining about Harper's backroom deal to overthrow prime minister Martin or Stockwell's failed coup d'etat in 2000. I think I'm going to like you SSD. I'm often alone in supporting Ignatieff, but it doesn't stop me. Ignatieff is respected around the world with awards up the yingyang, including a Gelder and a Gemini. Obama and Iggy represent the future in politics - intelligence over hokey - a welcome change. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
madmax Posted February 20, 2009 Report Posted February 20, 2009 I always have something topical to contribute. 1 MINUTE LATER your one line topicial contribution... What are you on anyway? Bravo. Quote
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