this is why israel doesn't want a just peace

M.Dancer · February 25, 2009

only for the students who have the attention span of a fish:
how about israel's recent attacks on gaza which left over 1000 palestinians dead, with over 1/3 of them children, over 5000 injured for life and the open air prison israel had created flattened?

Nonsense.

Another 300 of the 1,200 - women, children aged 15 and younger and men over the age of 65 - had been categorized as noncombatants, the CLA said.
Counted among the women, however, were female terrorists, including at least two women who tried to blow themselves up next to forces from the Givati and Paratroopers' Brigades. Also classed as noncombatants were the wives and children of Nizar Rayyan, a Hamas military commander who refused to allow his family to leave his home even after he was warned by Israel that it would be bombed.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

dub · February 25, 2009

That's what Hamas and their chums tells us...baby milk factories...kindergartens...flocks of fluffy kittens. All targets of the evil Zionist invaders. However, I think we'll find the numbers are quite a bit lower if past conflicts are our guides....

downplaying the deaths of the innocent palestinians only makes you look bad.

may i suggest putting down the tribal flag and start showing some compassion towards the people of the world and find it in yourself to hold those who are committing bad things, even if they're from your tribe, responsible.

There you go with the personal attacks, again, btw. Does it make you feel like a big man to call folks names?

you are the one who brought up 'class' and i played along.

Edited February 25, 2009 by dub

dub · February 25, 2009

there goes dancer trying to downplay israel's atrocities. you're no better than the holocaust deniers.

M.Dancer · February 25, 2009

there goes dancer trying to downplay israel's atrocities. you're no better than the holocaust deniers.

There you go, spinning like Goebbels again. Say a lie enough and Higgly repeat it for you

KeyStone · February 25, 2009

The Syrian government killed 50,000 people in the city of Hamas when some of them decided they wanted a different form of government.
The Iranians forced thousands and tens of thousands of untrained teenagers to run out into the fields at Iraqi fortifications in their war, simply to absorb the cannon and machinegun fire.

Something like a quarter million people have been butchered in Darfur by allies of the Sudanese government.

And in Gaza? Something less than 1000 - of which, even the UN says - the vast majority are Hamas fighters.

So how many did the Israelis kill in their fighting with Hamas?

Let's have some fun with your ridiculous logic.

The Nazis killed millions of Jews.

So how many did the rockets kill in their fighting with the Jews?

jbg · February 26, 2009

downplaying the deaths of the innocent palestinians only makes you look bad.
may i suggest putting down the tribal flag and start showing some compassion towards the people of the world and find it in yourself to hold those who are committing bad things, even if they're from your tribe, responsible.

I have a suggestion for Hamas. They have grievances against Israel, right?

Let them raise an army, buy uniforms, and mount a land invasion of Israel. They should fight like men, now like cowards, launching rockets from civilian areas.

WIP · February 26, 2009

Nonsense.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

And that's what makes it so hard to take these stories of massacres seriously! There's no real respect for innocent life when hospitals and schools are used for military command centers, and making rockets and munitions. When Hamas leaders refused to allow in Egyptian doctors into Gaza, or send injured civilians to Egyptian hospitals, it was obvious that saving lives was not one of their priorities!

That said, I hope the talk of expanding settlements, and setting up more checkpoints in the West Bank is just part of a bargaining strategy for future negotiations, and not a desire to annex occupied territories. Ariel Sharon gave up on Gaza, and wanted a withdrawal from most of the West Bank because maintaining the status quo would mean the end of having a Jewish-majority state.

dub · February 26, 2009

And that's what makes it so hard to take these stories of massacres seriously! There's no real respect for innocent life when hospitals and schools are used for military command centers, and making rockets and munitions. When Hamas leaders refused to allow in Egyptian doctors into Gaza, or send injured civilians to Egyptian hospitals, it was obvious that saving lives was not one of their priorities!

by the same account, it sounds like israel didn't really care about injured civilians by not allowing food and aid into gaza.

That said, I hope the talk of expanding settlements, and setting up more checkpoints in the West Bank is just part of a bargaining strategy for future negotiations, and not a desire to annex occupied territories. Ariel Sharon gave up on Gaza, and wanted a withdrawal from most of the West Bank because maintaining the status quo would mean the end of having a Jewish-majority state.

expanding settlements and having checkpoints as a bargaining strategy? then israel has been bargaining for decades.

WIP · February 26, 2009

by the same account, it sounds like israel didn't really care about injured civilians by not allowing food and aid into gaza.

It's their own people! I would have expected them to have more concern for their own civilians than their enemies do! But these are people made insane by a religion that glorifies death and martyrdom. I question whether they see death as a bad thing, when they have celebrations when suicide bombers blow themselves up, along with Israeli civilians.

dub · February 26, 2009

It's their own people! I would have expected them to have more concern for their own civilians than their enemies do! But these are people made insane by a religion that glorifies death and martyrdom. I question whether they see death as a bad thing, when they have celebrations when suicide bombers blow themselves up, along with Israeli civilians.

can you show me all these instances where hamas has not allowed their injured to receive medical attention?

DogOnPorch · February 26, 2009

can you show me all these instances where hamas has not allowed their injured to receive medical attention?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-15084,00.html

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We're all water in a vast, vast ocean.

Some day we'll evaporate together.

---Yoko Ono

M.Dancer · February 26, 2009

can you show me all these instances where hamas has not allowed their injured to receive medical attention?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm

dub · February 26, 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm

this is what i got from the news piece:

Egypt says the Hamas militant group, which controls Gaza, is preventing hundreds of wounded Palestinians from leaving for treatment in Egypt.
Cairo says dozens of empty ambulances are at the Rafah crossing - the only one to Gaza which avoids Israel.

Hamas said it was drawing up lists of the injured but that it was difficult getting them to the border because of the ongoing Israeli air strikes.

Egypt has summoned Israel's ambassador to demand an end to the bombardment.

as much as i'm not a fan of hamas, to me, it doesn't sound like hamas was trying to avoid treating these people. to me it sounds like disorganization most likely caused by the overwhelming attack on hamas by israel. when anything 'hamas' and anything close to it was being targeted by israel, i'm sure it would create this type of organization.

however, you can go ahead and draw up your own conclusion that hamas did not want to treat gazans who were injured by israel's attack.

DogOnPorch · February 26, 2009

this is what i got from the news piece:
as much as i'm not a fan of hamas, to me, it doesn't sound like hamas was trying to avoid treating these people. to me it sounds like disorganization most likely caused by the overwhelming attack on hamas by israel. when anything 'hamas' and anything close to it was being targeted by israel, i'm sure it would create this type of organization.

however, you can go ahead and draw up your own conclusion that hamas did not want to treat gazans who were injured by israel's attack.

In the divided town of Rafah, the road leading to the border crossing was lined last night with 20 riot police vehicles, with 40 ambulances and several utilities full of medicine waiting to cross into Gaza.
"We are preparing a list of casualties. There are just so many dead and injured," Mouneer al-Borsh of the Hamas-run Health Ministry said at the border.

Dr Borsh had arrived at the border with a ministry truck and was waiting to take medical supplies into Gaza. Asked when the wounded would arrive at the border, Dr Borsh said: "I don't know when. I can't say."

Seems Dr Borsh can nip on down to Rafah no-problemo but needs to draw up a list of the wounded before they can be treated.

Yeah...right.

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It'safakea

Edited February 26, 2009 by DogOnPorch

dub · February 26, 2009

Seems Dr Borsh can nip on down to Rafah no-problemo but needs to draw up a list of the wounded before they can be treated.
Yeah...right.

why 'yeah right'? how is that unbelievable? i'm sure it takes a lot of time and people power to draw up lists of wounded. the explanation seems quite legitimate to me.

M.Dancer · February 26, 2009

Only among the congenitally retarded, arab bureaucrats and Hamas would the first rule of triage be to prepare the paperwork.

DogOnPorch · February 26, 2009

why 'yeah right'? how is that unbelievable? i'm sure it takes a lot of time and people power to draw up lists of wounded. the explanation seems quite legitimate to me.

I'd suggest they stop using leeches if that's the case. You too as well...

-----------------------------------

Well, I'll do everything humanly possible. Unfortunately, we barbers aren't gods. You know, medicine is not an exact science, but we are learning all the time. Why, just fifty years ago, they thought a disease like your daughter's was caused by demonic possession or witchcraft. But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach.

---Theodoric of York Medieval Barber

dub · February 26, 2009

Only among the congenitally retarded, arab bureaucrats and Hamas would the first rule of triage be to prepare the paperwork.

there is a protocol involved when it comes to treating the wounded. go look it up.

DogOnPorch · February 26, 2009

there is a protocol involved when it comes to treating the wounded. go look it up.

Maybe you could point this protocol out since you're more familiar with First Aid...(?) Everywhere I look says seek immediate medical attention.

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It's a Daisy.

dub · February 26, 2009

Maybe you could point this protocol out since you're more familiar with First Aid...(?) Everywhere I look says seek immediate medical attention.

you don't just dump people in a vehicle without knowing who they are and having a record of them. you have to keep records of these situations. you should know that.

i don't have time to find you the information on the internet because i've dedicated enough time to fighting evil zionism on the internet for the day. however, you can contact your local hospital and ask them what they know about international protocols when transferring patients.

jbg · February 27, 2009

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-15084,00.html

Lovely group!!!

M.Dancer · February 27, 2009

there is a protocol involved when it comes to treating the wounded. go look it up.

Yes...it's called triage....in most parts of the world it's a process of dividing the wounded into 3 categories, those who need immediate aid, those who can wait and those for whom aid is no longer needed.

With the palestinians they also have system those who are too old to be martyrs, those who are too rich to be martyrs and those who are so perfect fpr matyrdom that it would not be halal to give them aid.

DogOnPorch · February 27, 2009

Lovely group!!!

That's what I think...but apparently I'm just misunderstanding their actions.

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Hamas leaders wish to be martyrs and are not scared of death.

---Sheikh A. Yassin

dub · February 27, 2009

That's what I think...but apparently I'm just misunderstanding their actions.

oh cool. pull out the "islam/nazi connection".

i thought that stuff was only for the low-browed evangelical christians who eat up this crap.

dub · February 27, 2009

Yes...it's called triage....in most parts of the world it's a process of dividing the wounded into 3 categories, those who need immediate aid, those who can wait and those for whom aid is no longer needed.

see DoP? why does dancer know and you don't? couldn't you find it on wikipedia?