Is Ignatieff politically incompetent?

[capricorn]

As expected, the budget passed 211 votes to 91. With Iggy's permission, the 6 Newfoundland and Labrador Liberals voted against.

"I decided to permit them in the budget vote tonight a one-time vote of protest to signal their displeasure and my displeasure at these unilateral actions which in my view weaken our federation, cause strains in our federation at a time when Canadians should be pulling together," Ignatieff said Tuesday.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...203?hub=QPeriod

If Iggy believes the budget weakens and strains our federation how in good conscience could he support the budget? One would think that he has the best interests of the country at heart. If he did, he would have done more than ask for progress reports, which the government was already planning to do.

The situation was emerging as the first big test for Ignatieff and his fledgling leadership of the party. Faced with a mini-revolt by caucus members who opposed the party's support of the budget, Ignatieff could have opted to discipline the MPs.

However, he today bowed to their anger and let them vote their conscience, setting in a place a possible precedent for how the party handles divisive issues in the future.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/581557

He made it clear this was a one time pass for Liberal MPs to vote contrary to the party. Yet, not long ago he was crowing that under his leadership the Liberals would speak with one voice. How would he handle MPs from Quebec when they come looking for a similar "one time" pass?

He reversed his position on tax cuts for the middle class. He didn't approve of them initially but decided to let them pass.

"This is not the moment for broad-based tax cuts because we think it will lead us into structural deficit and our children will be paying the price for Stephen Harper's mistakes for years to come,"

---

However, Mr. Ignatieff said that tax cuts should be targeted at low-income Canadians, who would spend all their disposable income rather than save it. His preference would include enhancing the Working Income Tax Benefit, a tax credit for lower-income earners, and the Canada Child Tax Benefit, a tax-free monthly payment available to eligible Canadian families to help with the cost of raising children.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/st...html?id=1187126

He has complained loudly that the budget didn't do enough to protect the vulnerable. In an email to supporters, he listed the budget's shortcomings.

• it doesn’t go far enough to protect Canadians who have - or will soon – lose their jobs;

• it opens the door for attacks on pay equity for women;

• it breaks the Conservatives` promise to all Canadian provinces on equalization;

• it missed the opportunity for significant stimulus investment towards the green economy;

• it lacks clear plan for getting us out of the $85 billion hole the government will dig us into over the next five years.

Iggy presented some pretty strong arguments against the budget but in the end it proved to be nothing but hot air. And now, some pundits are saying that by allowing MPs the discretion to vote against the party position he has undermined his leadership.

Iggy is a neophyte in politics. To date, I don't see that he possesses the political acumen required to lead a national party. I would like to be proven wrong because the country needs a principled and strong opposition to the government.

[Smallc]

If Iggy believes the budget weakens and strains our federation how in good conscience could he support the budget?

Because there was enough good to offset the problems. The things that are wrong can be fixed later. Right now, parliament needs to get to work for Canadians. An election now wouldn't be welcomed by the population.

[jdobbin]

Iggy is a neophyte in politics. To date, I don't see that he possesses the political acumen required to lead a national party. I would like to be proven wrong because the country needs a principled and strong opposition to the government.

Oh my. By your assessment, Harper comes off the incredible victor here. Looks like Ignatieff is done.

[Mr.Canada]

Oh my. By your assessment, Harper comes off the incredible victor here. Looks like Ignatieff is done.

Could be a sign of things to come from Ignotieff as in wishy washy.

[jdobbin]

Could be a sign of things to come from Ignotieff as in wishy washy.

And Horper is a sociopath.

[punked]

Nope you guys don't get to do this to Iggy. We stood by and watched you do to Dion but we wont let you do it to Iggy. I don't like him but I will defend him from your labelling.

This is the first parliament has passed in 10 months thanks Harper. I think we need to thank Iggy for putting it behind him and making sure Canada has a government of some kind.

Edited February 4, 2009 by punked

[Alta4ever]

Nope you guys don't get to do this to Iggy. We stood by and watched you do to Dion but we wont let you do it to Iggy. I don't like him but I will defend him from your labelling.

This is the first parliament has passed in 10 months thanks Harper. I think we need to thank Iggy for putting it behind him and making sure Canada has a government of some kind.

Who ever are you refering to? Dion did it to himself? As is Iggy.

[punked]

Who ever are you refering to? Dion did it to himself? As is Iggy.

Dion went out on TV and repeated talking points handed down from the Conservative party himself did he? Too late the media has already labelled Iggy as a strong leader you guys will have to do a lot of spinning to change their minds now. You didn't get out in front of it.

[Mr.Canada]

Who ever are you refering to? Dion did it to himself? As is Iggy.

Baaazing!

[Alta4ever]

Dion went out on TV and repeated talking points handed down from the Conservative party himself did he? Too late the media has already labelled Iggy as a strong leader you guys will have to do a lot of spinning to change their minds now. You didn't get out in front of it.

No the Cpc used exactly what he said they didn't even take them out of context.

[Oleg Bach]

Nope you guys don't get to do this to Iggy. We stood by and watched you do to Dion but we wont let you do it to Iggy. I don't like him but I will defend him from your labelling.

This is the first parliament has passed in 10 months thanks Harper. I think we need to thank Iggy for putting it behind him and making sure Canada has a government of some kind.

Because Dion and Iggy are very vulnerable book smarters..and semi-professatorial types...it would be unkind to cruxify Iggy - one victim is enough. Any brains that may be in Iggy must be utilized for what it is. Dion was very emotional...Iggy is less so..too bad we can't recruit the wise and earthy guy with the tatoos that pumps gas for the last 20 years out side of Medicine Hat. It would be wonderful if the acedemic mind could be crossed with the common man with old fashioned street wise wisdom. In the mean time - just like playing in a rock band - You have to listen carefully to the other players ----AND even if you are better than the front man - You give full support to the one centre stage...then you have a great show no matter what..get my drift?

[capricorn]

Because there was enough good to offset the problems.

Since when is something good in a budget more important than preventing the weakening of the federation?

The things that are wrong can be fixed later. Right now, parliament needs to get to work for Canadians.

If the coalition had done its job and prepared a counter budget, Iggy could have voted down the government and visited the GG with a plan. The GG may have agreed that an election would delay action on the economy and allowed the coalition.

An election now wouldn't be welcomed by the population.

That's true. Perhaps if Iggy had had the guts to proceed with the coalition an election would have been avoided. The fact is Iggy put aside his principles and his disdain for the budget, and propped up Harper for political advantage.

[capricorn]

Oh my. By your assessment, Harper comes off the incredible victor here. Looks like Ignatieff is done.

As far as I know, Harper is still PM and Iggy is leader of the opposition.

[Smallc]

Since when is something good in a budget more important than preventing the weakening of the federation?

Since we became tangled in a global economic crisis....and since it appears that Stephen Harper is willing to sacrifice anything to stay in power.

If the coalition had done its job and prepared a counter budget, Iggy could have voted down the government and visited the GG with a plan.

I really don't think he ever wanted to. If I had to guess, I would say he would like to become the Prime Minister of a Liberal government...without the NDP hanging around his neck.

The fact is Iggy put aside his principles

If you support Harper...that's rich.

[Smallc]

As far as I know, Harper is still PM and Iggy is leader of the opposition.

And yet, Harper had to draft a budget that angered his base and went against his principles(?). Now, Ignatieff can watch...and wait.

[gordiecanuk]

I saw a poll recently which said Canadians overwhelmingly support Ignatieff's decision to vote for the budget...including 65% of Conservatives. I would have preferred an election, this budget is a mess, and now Harper gets to wear Bob Rae's mantle as deficit boy.

[Oleg Bach]

Looking at his face and eyes before I heard him speak he looked like a very tough and dangerous warrior...a man of natural primative power...a leader. Once I heard him vocalize..I was disappointed..there was no force of character that I expected from the image. He was watery -- and his attempt to sound like the challenging statesman..was feeble...I was really hoping that the poor liberals would have found a guy with some umpff. Apparently the side effect of liberal conditioning is de-masculinization.

[capricorn]

If you support Harper...that's rich.

My support for the Conservatives came about from my loathing of the Liberals. I had voted for the Liberals all my life until the corruption came to light. I don't think the Liberals have yet atoned for their sins against Canadians. To borrow a phrase from Iggy, I'll settle for "the lesser evil".

I don't like the budget. Neither does Ignatieff but his disapproval is assuaged by assigning quarterly grades.

[Smallc]

I don't like the budget. Neither does Ignatieff but his disapproval is assuaged by assigning quarterly grades.

That's not really what he's doing. He's waiting for his chance...a chance he will most likely get. I voted for the Conservatives in the last election because I though they were the best choice available. I still stick by that. I can safely say though, that I won't be voting for them this election.

[Oleg Bach]

We should all vote liberal and get it over with - they with the NDP will have us all on corporate and private welfare if the financial chaos continues...where as the conservatives will be happy with their northern cottages on the family island and their hobby farms with expensive horses. Try to get a decent social subsidy out of a conservative - they will do what Harris did to the poor in Ontario - give them just enough to eat badly and supply them with addictive substances to keep them passive till they die and are rid of. They will continue to scam the tax payer by supplying dope to the poor paid for by the tax dollar - and the profits from the pharma dope sales will not go back into sustaining the system but will skip over the population and go into the hands of the rich - who own the dope and booze companies...It's a very very clever arrangement.

[Alta4ever]

We should all vote liberal and get it over with - they with the NDP will have us all on corporate and private welfare if the financial chaos continues...where as the conservatives will be happy with their northern cottages on the family island and their hobby farms with expensive horses. Try to get a decent social subsidy out of a conservative - they will do what Harris did to the poor in Ontario - give them just enough to eat badly and supply them with addictive substances to keep them passive till they die and are rid of. They will continue to scam the tax payer by supplying dope to the poor paid for by the tax dollar - and the profits from the pharma dope sales will not go back into sustaining the system but will skip over the population and go into the hands of the rich - who own the dope and booze companies...It's a very very clever arrangement.

Is this ment as satire?

[charter.rights]

Is this ment as satire?

No. It is strategic.

[Alta4ever]

No. It is strategic.

I see your now living in someone elses mind

[Oleg Bach]

Is this ment as satire?

YEP! With all satire there is always a smudgin of truth. Satire has always been used as a protective cloak by the soothsayer (truth sayer). So if you offend anyone important or dangerous, you can always say you were just kidding. Take the court jester for instance - he could tell the truth and insult the king - but the king could not execute the pesky clown...IF the king was to kill the jester - the realm would lose all respect for him and he would lose his kingship. The man with nothing to lose and who owns nothing can say what he pleases...my mention of the booming dope trade raging with billions in profits - is true...most of the subsidised poor are addicted to legal substances - whether they are in need or not of medications - the policy is to drug ALL -----there's your satire. Do you find the truth amuzing?

[Alta4ever]

I'm not sure where you are coming from with the drug bit....