Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Now Islamic 'honor killing' has come full circle to the land of the free. It is here. It is going to continue. The Pakistani woman wanted out of the marriage in Atlanta. Her father concluded that a divorce would "shame the family." So he cut off her air SOURCE The United Nations Population Fund estimates that the annual worldwide total of honour-killing victims may be as high as 5,000. Source Islam is the supposed religion of peace. Religion of peace? Maybe they meant Rest in Peace as in a daughter of a Muslim who didn't want an arranged marriage. Think about that for a moment. A girl simply wants to marry a man or woman of whom she chooses. Sounds pretty normal to me, I wouldn't want my parents choosing my wife and I'm sure not many here would want their parents choosing their mate. Yet this poor girl was murdered by her father for exactly that. In this example she simply wants out of a marriage, maybe her husband abused her or was not a good father but instead of "shaming the family" he'd rather have a dead daughter killed by his own hands. She is one of 5,000 so called honor killings each year around the world. How tolerant are we meant to be of others religions? Are we to look the other way and celebrate this as freedom of religion as the left have been screaming for for decades? The left is always telling us we need to be tolerant but where do we draw the line and accept no more? What sort of religion is this that we're allowing into our towns and cities? Edited January 29, 2009 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) She is one of 5,000 so called honor killings each year in North America. Best that we can say about this article is that it is nonsense. The author and Mr. Canada are trying to make us believe that out of an average of 15,000 murders each year in the USA, muslims representing 0.6% of the population are committing 33% of the murders. I think it is very sad that anyone for any reason is murdered, more so if by a family member. Also sad but not as tragic are stupid articles based on ignorance and the complete disregard for truth and honestly. Shame Mr. Canada....remember the 9th suggestion! Edited January 29, 2009 by M.Dancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Best that we can say about this article is that it is nonsense. The author and Mr. Canada are trying to make us believe that out of an average of 15,000 murders each year in the USA, muslims representing 0.6% of the population are committing 33% of the murders. I think it is very sad that anyone for any reason is murdered, more so if by a family member. Also sad but not as tragic are stupid articles based on ignorance and the complete disregard for truth and honestly. Shame Mr. Canada....remember the 9th suggestion! I'm bringing these alarming stats to the forefront so that everyday Canadians can see for themselves what these people stand for. I know it goes against you politically correct world view but if it's getting worse than it's getting worse. I don't understand why many refuse to believe that honor killings are becoming common place in today's new multicultural society. This is part of the Muslim culture, accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) She is one of 5,000 so called honor killings each year in North America. How tolerant are we meant to be of others religions? Are we to look the other way and celebrate this as freedom of religion as the left have been screaming for for decades? The left is always telling us we need to be tolerant but where do we draw the line and accept no more? What sort of religion is this that we're allowing into our towns and cities? Honor killings suck. I take issue with the figure of 5000 a year in North America, however. The writer of your article misquoted the source for the figure: "The United Nations estimates around 5,000 deaths occur each year — mostly of women, mostly in South Asia and the Middle East." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...ft=1&f=1012 The source for the claim of 5000 is claiming it is worldwide, not North America. A word of advice: if you can find mainstream sources for your citations, use those instead. "Post Chronicle" looks like little more than a blog for angry Christians. In this instance, using the NPR article would have spared you criticism from people who don't consider "Post Chronicle" credible. Also, before someone else does, I have to point out that honor-killings are hardly unique to Islam. I believe the last honor killing I heard about in Canada was in Vancouver's Indo community, not Muslims. "Macho" South American Catholics have been known to kill women who they think have cheated on them or have insulted or embarrassed them. However, I appreciate your enthusiasm for women's rights. -k Edited January 29, 2009 by kimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Honor killings suck. I take issue with the figure of 5000 a year in North America, however. The writer of your article misquoted the source for the figure:"The United Nations estimates around 5,000 deaths occur each year — mostly of women, mostly in South Asia and the Middle East." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...ft=1&f=1012 The source for the claim of 5000 is claiming it is worldwide, not North America. A word of advice: if you can find mainstream sources for your citations, use those instead. "Post Chronicle" looks like little more than a blog for angry Christians. In this instance, using the NPR article would have spared you criticism from people who don't consider "Post Chronicle" credible. Also, before someone else does, I have to point out that honor-killings are hardly unique to Islam. I believe the last honor killing I heard about in Canada was in Vancouver's Indo community, not Muslims. "Macho" South American Catholics have been known to kill women who they think have cheated on them or have insulted or embarrassed them. However, I appreciate your enthusiasm for women's rights. -k Thank you. You're right. With 5,000 so called "honor killings" around the world, I fixed it. It's very sad that women are being killed for any perceived slight in the name of Allah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I'm bringing these alarming erroneous and inflammatory stats to the forefront so that everyday Canadians can see for themselves what these people who bring alarming and erroneous and imflammatory stats stand for. I fixed it for you. Maybe you should stick to the racist wing nut sites that quote erroneous holocaust stats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Honor killings are becoming increasingly normal in Canada. Some choose to downplay the outright murder of women and support misogyny but I'm not one of them. I'm a friend of women everywhere and will defend their rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Honor killings are becoming increasingly normal in Canada. You're certainly the friend of hyperbole and over exageration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 You're certainly the friend of hyperbole and over exageration. They're much more common nowadays then they were 20 or 30 years ago, this cannot be debated. This isn't an exaggeration or hyperbole sir. These honor killings aren't going to stop or slow down so we must change our practices as a country instead. In fact they will only increase in number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 This is anti-Islamic propaganda. Knowing that you abhor atheists and those who advertise against your own beliefs, how could you be posting this malarkey? Could you post some verses that would undoubtedly approve of honour killings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) This is anti-Islamic propaganda. Knowing that you abhor atheists and those who advertise against your own beliefs, how could you be posting this malarkey? Could you post some verses that would undoubtedly approve of honour killings? You don't believe that honor killings occur to the tune of 5,000+ per year? Or you refuse to admit they happen at all? Being critical isn't anti-Islamic. Atheists are anti-Christian yet no one in the MSM accuses them of hate speech do they? Edited January 29, 2009 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 You don't believe that honor killings occur to the tune of 5,000+ per year? Or you refuse to admit they happen at all?Being critical isn't anti-Islamic. Atheists are anti-Christian yet no one in the MSM accuses them of hate speech do they? It is unfair to criticize the "religion" as a whole based on the actions of a certain number of human beings. I do know that honour killings are apparent and I wholeheartedly abhor them. However, the fault is laid upon those who practise the atrocities, not the religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It is unfair to criticize the "religion" as a whole based on the actions of a certain number of human beings. I do know that honour killings are apparent and I wholeheartedly abhor them. However, the fault is laid upon those who practise the atrocities, not the religion. It's happening by Muslims who are fanatical. Murdering in the name of Allah. This is a problem and it comes from the Imams. We must identify and deport the Imams who preach honor killing, there is no place for them in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It's happening by Muslims who are fanatical. Murdering in the name of Allah. This is a problem and it comes from the Imams. We must identify and deport the Imams who preach honor killing, there is no place for them in Canada. Yes, we should not allow this kind of thing in Canada, but twisted people live by twisted texts. They interpret philosophies to their own desires - the blame is all upon the radicals. Do you take the crusades as a representative act in the name of Jesus Christ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck U. Farlie Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It's happening by Muslims who are fanatical. Murdering in the name of Allah. This is a problem and it comes from the Imams. We must identify and deport the Imams who preach honor killing, there is no place for them in Canada. As Kimmy pointed out already, but you don't seem to want to listen, is that not all of the honour killings are from Muslims. Hindu and Sikhs, for example, also still have arranged marriages and also have honour killings. For example, this 22 year old woman killed on New Year's Day is also suspected to be an honour killing: http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics...html?id=1149057 Now, while it didn't state what religion in this article, I am guessing by their names that they are likely Punjabi, and so more likely than not are Sikh. I could be wrong about that... just guessing. I completely agree with fighting against violence towards women, especially these so-called honour killings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Honor killings suck. I take issue with the figure of 5000 a year in North America, however. The writer of your article misquoted the source for the figure:"The United Nations estimates around 5,000 deaths occur each year — mostly of women, mostly in South Asia and the Middle East." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...ft=1&f=1012 The source for the claim of 5000 is claiming it is worldwide, not North America. A word of advice: if you can find mainstream sources for your citations, use those instead. "Post Chronicle" looks like little more than a blog for angry Christians. In this instance, using the NPR article would have spared you criticism from people who don't consider "Post Chronicle" credible. Also, before someone else does, I have to point out that honor-killings are hardly unique to Islam. I believe the last honor killing I heard about in Canada was in Vancouver's Indo community, not Muslims. "Macho" South American Catholics have been known to kill women who they think have cheated on them or have insulted or embarrassed them. However, I appreciate your enthusiasm for women's rights. -k Hear hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Honor killings are becoming increasingly normal in Canada. You have the statistics that support your statements, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 You don't believe that honor killings occur to the tune of 5,000+ per year? Or you refuse to admit they happen at all?Being critical isn't anti-Islamic. Atheists are anti-Christian yet no one in the MSM accuses them of hate speech do they? Let's be clear here. We're talking about a planetary population of over 6 billion, a billion of those are Muslims, and another billion belonging to various Indian religions where honor killing is known to happen, and I will find it other cultures besides, so let's peg this at over a third of the world's population live in cultures where one could conceivably imagine honor killings being some part of the cultural motif, and out of all those, just 5,000 such murders actually take place. In other words, such events are exceedingly uncommon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 There's another question to consider... what actually does fall under the heading of 'honor killing'? Certainly some of these cases are easy to file under a heading. What was the previous one that was a hot topic on this board-- a father choking his daughter almost to death because she wouldn't follow the dress code? And there's been a number of incidents involving Vancouver's Indo community-- deaths of young women at the hands of male relatives-- that we tend to suspect have cultural/religious motivation. I mentioned one earlier in this thread... South American men killing a woman they feel has embarrassed them in some way. That's not a religious honor killing, but it's something that has existed in the culture and was even a legal defense in Brazil until just recently. Religion and culture can apparently both be behind honor killings. What if we took an average Canadian guy, who might be an atheist, or maybe a Christian to some degree that most people would consider a very average citizen. And he finds out that his wife is cheating on him, and he's so mad that he kills her. Is that an honor killing? Is it only an honor killing if we have religion or culture to blame it on? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) What if we took an average Canadian guy, who might be an atheist, or maybe a Christian to some degree that most people would consider a very average citizen. And he finds out that his wife is cheating on him, and he's so mad that he kills her. Is that an honor killing? Is it only an honor killing if we have religion or culture to blame it on? -k Indeed..and it wasn't so long ago in Italy and Spain when someone had murdered their spouce they could plead it was a crime of passion...or with scilians.. an honour killing. Parts of the narrative changed in the telling, recalled from the fading memories of older people. But several facts remained consistent in Tintori's interviews: Frances was murdered by two men, most likely her older brothers; she was drowned at Belle Isle, and her sin was some sort of sexual impropriety, as decided by her male relatives. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...METRO/711100379 Honor killings are also part of Italy's own history, where the idea of "honor" was an admitted legal defense until 1981. Prior to its reversal, an article existed in the Italian Criminal Code that provided a reduced penalty of imprisonment of only three to seven years for a man who killed his wife, sister or daughter to vindicate his or his family's honor. http://www.wluml.org/english/newsfulltxt.s...5D=x-157-555943 Edited January 30, 2009 by M.Dancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Let's be clear here. We're talking about a planetary population of over 6 billion, a billion of those are Muslims, and another billion belonging to various Indian religions where honor killing is known to happen, and I will find it other cultures besides, so let's peg this at over a third of the world's population live in cultures where one could conceivably imagine honor killings being some part of the cultural motif, and out of all those, just 5,000 such murders actually take place. In other words, such events are exceedingly uncommon. Indian killings have less to do with honour than they do with dowries. An Indian bride, by custom, brings with her a dowry. If the dowry is not considered adequate, the bride is killed - usually by dousing her with kerosene and lighting her afire. These killings were referred to in the New Delhi press for decades as "kitchen accidents". The killing was most often carried out by the husband's mother - typically newly married couples will live with the family of the groom. Brings a whole new level of horror to mother-in-law stories. Alfred Hitchcock would have loved this sort of stuff. There has been a movement afoot for some time to ban dowries, and it appears to be having some success, but Indian society is extraordinarily complex and dense (it can change virtually from village to village), so change is slow to come. Edited January 30, 2009 by Higgly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Globe Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Honor killings are becoming increasingly normal in Canada. Really? Says who? You? How do you know this? Guteral insight? ESP? Some choose to downplay the outright murder of women and support misogyny but I'm not one of them. I'm a friend of women everywhere and will defend their rights. You're not a defender of women's rights, because if you were you'd be making posts about domestic violence IN GENERAL and not just talking about it when it involves someone who happens to be Muslim. If you cared about women's rights you would be as outraged about Aqsa Parvez as you are about a man murdering his girlfriend: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Murder...1901/story.html As said earlier, why do you separate "honour killings" from cases where a man who isn't Muslim murdered his wife or girlfriend? Why is one worse than the other? Is the end result not the same? Why do you not care about one versus the other? I believe the answer is that you are simply feigning concern here and this is merely a vehicle for you to express your bigoted views against Muslims in general. Also you spoke about Imams who justify honour killings - who are you talking about? Because I don't know of any, I only know of Imams who condemn honour killings and the forced wearing of the hijab: http://www.islamicfoundation.ca/friday_ser...aring_the_hijab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Really? Says who? You? How do you know this? Guteral insight? ESP? Honour killings are not common in Canada. There are all kinds of people who kill. They all have different reasons. This is just something the press seizes on because it is constantly on the hunt for themes in society. Muslim Society has been thrust into the spotlight after 9/11. Edited January 30, 2009 by Higgly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusThermopyle Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 How do you know this? Guteral insight? ESP? What is guteral insight? Is that where you proclaim an insight in a low raspy rough tone of voice? Or perhaps you meant to say visceral, as in a gut feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I discovered an interesting initialism on another forum: PUI : Posting Under the Influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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