How to end racial and social inequality

[FreznoBob]

There was once a belief that some were born to greatness while others (most) were destined to toil and each according to the station of his birth. Men were violently discouraged from rising above the rank of their fathers. If your father was a miner you would be required to mine, if you were unwilling or unable to do your job you might be able to look for work below your station but not above. The ruling classes considered themselves genetically superior to those they ruled, this developed into a science called Eugenics. Eugenics claimed that the poor could do nothng but breed more children destined to poverty and that, like their parents, they could not achieve a better life because they lacked the mental capacity to succeed. This theory was embraced by the upper classes in Europe and North America and was the moral basis for conquering and occupying many African countries. These beliefs have been with us for ages and have guided the elite and powerful to restrict and control their bloodlines, to this very day, in the belief that they are somehow physically and mentally superior to you and me. This belief must now end, all men must be empowered to an equal level of influence over the government regardless of wealth or or social status. Only then will all men and women truly be equal, when all are leaders, when the masses rise above the station of follower.

Please read The Etobicoke Proposal.

[Progressive Tory]

There was once a belief that some were born to greatness while others (most) were destined to toil and each according to the station of his birth. Men were violently discouraged from rising above the rank of their fathers. If your father was a miner you would be required to mine, if you were unwilling or unable to do your job you might be able to look for work below your station but not above. The ruling classes considered themselves genetically superior to those they ruled, this developed into a science called Eugenics. Eugenics claimed that the poor could do nothng but breed more children destined to poverty and that, like their parents, they could not achieve a better life because they lacked the mental capacity to succeed. This theory was embraced by the upper classes in Europe and North America and was the moral basis for conquering and occupying many African countries. These beliefs have been with us for ages and have guided the elite and powerful to restrict and control their bloodlines, to this very day, in the belief that they are somehow physically and mentally superior to you and me. This belief must now end, all men must be empowered to an equal level of influence over the government regardless of wealth or or social status. Only then will all men and women truly be equal, when all are leaders, when the masses rise above the station of follower.

Please read The Etobicoke Proposal.

The only 'Etobicoke Proposal' I could find was some kind of land development. I did read a bit and discovered that "The philosophy was most famously expounded by Plato, who believed human reproduction should be monitored and controlled by the state."

I was also surprized to find that "eugenics was supported by prominent people, including H. G. Wells, Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, Emile Zola, George Bernard Shaw, John Maynard Keynes, William Keith Kellogg, Margaret Sanger, Winston Churchill, and Sidney Webb."

But then the science was also considered in controlling genetic cell mutation and heridary diseases; not always to purify race. It's an interesting field of study but not one I'd care to be involved in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Do I think it died with Adolf Hitler? Not on your life.

You've obviously given this a lot of thought. Any immediate concerns?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It is my belief that we to this day still live within a class structured society. The upper class is more affluent, the lower class is poor, and the middle class carries the load of society in their numbers.

Further to this I think that there is also a social structure to consider within our current society. There is a certain class within our society that believe they have some entitlement to programs and services at government expense. In my view these are by choice the true lower class of citizens. The upper class, in my view are the citizens that desire to work for what they want. The middle class within our society are those who simply work for a living but do not desire to put more effort into their own lives or into their communities. Again in my view, society tends to sort itself out with the hard working citizens achieving more and realizing a higher standard of living by rewarding themselves with their own efforts.

As a matter of fact, for the most part our government has socially engineered our Canadian culture to provide a foundation in which no citizen is allowed to fall into complete poverty. The government will feed and cloth citizens, pay for their utilities, as well as their education and their health care. Their standard of living is very low, yet they are allowed to survive at the expense of society. While this is happening the most affluent pay less taxes and have more opportunity

even as the majority of citizens cover the burden of funding society.

Even so there is room for even more social engineering, through legislative effort. The age of entitlement is gradually coming to an end, we simply can no longer afford, nor do we any longer care to subsidize the lowest class of our society. The first nations will likely be the first to come to this realization. As it currently stands numerous bands have begun casino operations, and yet some of these pay no taxes. Soon the day will come when these bands will be compelled to make a decision, either pay taxes and receive benefits, or not. Then there are the generational welfare citizens, who have never lifted a finger to help themselves, they too shall discover a new reality and be compelled to make a decision.

In my view, those who desire to live high on the fat of the public hog, should expect to be relegated into a separated society of their own. There they would receive what they deserve which is very little.

[Progressive Tory]

It is my belief that we to this day still live within a class structured society. The upper class is more affluent, the lower class is poor, and the middle class carries the load of society in their numbers.

Further to this I think that there is also a social structure to consider within our current society. There is a certain class within our society that believe they have some entitlement to programs and services at government expense. In my view these are by choice the true lower class of citizens. The upper class, in my view are the citizens that desire to work for what they want. The middle class within our society are those who simply work for a living but do not desire to put more effort into their own lives or into their communities. Again in my view, society tends to sort itself out with the hard working citizens achieving more and realizing a higher standard of living by rewarding themselves with their own efforts.

As a matter of fact, for the most part our government has socially engineered our Canadian culture to provide a foundation in which no citizen is allowed to fall into complete poverty. The government will feed and cloth citizens, pay for their utilities, as well as their education and their health care. Their standard of living is very low, yet they are allowed to survive at the expense of society. While this is happening the most affluent pay less taxes and have more opportunity

even as the majority of citizens cover the burden of funding society.

Even so there is room for even more social engineering, through legislative effort. The age of entitlement is gradually coming to an end, we simply can no longer afford, nor do we any longer care to subsidize the lowest class of our society. The first nations will likely be the first to come to this realization. As it currently stands numerous bands have begun casino operations, and yet some of these pay no taxes. Soon the day will come when these bands will be compelled to make a decision, either pay taxes and receive benefits, or not. Then there are the generational welfare citizens, who have never lifted a finger to help themselves, they too shall discover a new reality and be compelled to make a decision.

In my view, those who desire to live high on the fat of the public hog, should expect to be relegated into a separated society of their own. There they would receive what they deserve which is very little.

I don't really agree. Yes, we do have a class system in Canada, but for the most part it is based on actual income and buying power. I do agree that "The upper class is more affluent, the lower class is poor, and the middle class carries the load of society in their numbers."

However, "The upper class, in my view are the citizens that desire to work for what they want." I don't agree with this at all, and in fact they are more inclined to believe they have 'entitlement'. Didn't you yourself once say that our country is being run by corporations? The upper class are able to contribute to political campaigns and host $500.00 a plate luncheons to help finance political campaigns. They are also first at the trough for tax cuts and bail outs.

In Ontario, welfare recipients are under Ontario Works. The funds are very low (less than $500.00 per month for single person), and you must work.

I mentioned before that I grew up poor and spent most of my youth in public housing. Many of the people I grew up with are now teachers, nurses, etc. One is a lawyer and another the head of a large union. I think the upper class are more prone to become lazy, and make their money off other people, knowing that the politicians they've financed will keep them out of trouble.

The wealthy are also not free from crime (Conrad Black). They are just less likely to get caught.

[Muddy]

I firmly believe that Canada offers every individual a chance to rise above the station they were born into. I was one of four children,born poor to those with communist leanings but with the work ethic. We all rose above our station with hard work ,ingenuity and a desire to have what others had gained. Except one brother who`s beer delivery was utmost on his mind. Mind you he worked hard at his job no matter what it was. But he was bitter at the rest of his siblings for his poverty and his inability to pull himself up by the bootstraps. His children inherited his lifestyle and still live in the old neighbourhood. The rest of us gave our kids a chance to be even more prosperous than ourselves. We should never blame anyone but ourselves for our success or lack of it. The best place to confirm who and what you have done with your life is by the reflection in the mirror.

[Molly]

... less likely to be meaningfully, proportionally punished _when_ they are caught.

If you or I was caught after having stolen $100 from each of 15 people, we would face 15 counts of theft. How many counts did Conrad face?

[Argus]

These beliefs have been with us for ages and have guided the elite and powerful to restrict and control their bloodlines, to this very day, in the belief that they are somehow physically and mentally superior to you and me. This belief must now end, all men must be empowered to an equal level of influence over the government regardless of wealth or or social status. Only then will all men and women truly be equal, when all are leaders, when the masses rise above the station of follower.

Please read The Etobicoke Proposal.

But all are clearly NOT equal. Some are much smarter than others. Some are much more industrious than others. Why should a smart, hard-working man be held as the equal of a stupid, lazy man?

[Progressive Tory]

But all are clearly NOT equal. Some are much smarter than others. Some are much more industrious than others. Why should a smart, hard-working man be held as the equal of a stupid, lazy man?

When does that happen? We have a class system but it is not written in stone. Anyone can be rich and even the rich can become poor.

I was one of seven who grew up poor, and with exception of a sister sho got pregnant at 15 and spent a few years on the skids; we all rose above our 'station'. That sister went back to school, with the help of one of those damned social programs everyone complains about, and now works with disabled adults. She also spends hours doing volunteer work, so is giving back, and pays taxes.

[charter.rights]

But all are clearly NOT equal. Some are much smarter than others. Some are much more industrious than others. Why should a smart, hard-working man be held as the equal of a stupid, lazy man?

The purpose of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not to make everyone equal. It is to balance the rights of people in our collective. It is only when we find equity in society that we truly have equality under the law.

Our class system IS supported by Corporatism which is primarily supported by government. While there are opportunities to rise above one's station in life, it is much harder for those outside of the Corporatist club. Being born into privilege almost always guarantees staying with the power and privilege. Doors are opened for the rich (the extremely wealthy - not just the higher income earners) that are not otherwise available for anyone else.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The purpose of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is not to make everyone equal. It is to balance the rights of people in our collective. It is only when we find equity in society that we truly have equality under the law.

I must agree with you on this statement at least.

Our class system IS supported by Corporatism which is primarily supported by government. While there are opportunities to rise above one's station in life, it is much harder for those outside of the Corporatist club. Being born into privilege almost always guarantees staying with the power and privilege. Doors are opened for the rich (the extremely wealthy - not just the higher income earners) that are not otherwise available for anyone else.

Here as well I find myself in agreement with you, this is not a common thin CR.

Yet the issue of entitlement looms as large before us corporatism. Universality would address this but some say that is not a fair approach, I disagree. I want the government blind with respect to telling citizens apart. That is the kind of equality I desire.

There will always be rich folks and there will always be poor folks. That is not an issue, some get to choose their station and some do not. My point was directed toward the reality of a class system within our society. While we have the opportunity to rise above where we find ourselves, I suggest that society itself needs to recognize the reality of our class structure.

I do think that rights apply to all citizens, but privilege is another matter. Perhaps if privilege was accepted as the reality enfranchised in law then we could do a little more social engineering to improve the human condition. Such improvement is the responsibility of society. Working toward it is a path of enlightenment. This is where I desire that citizens and government together go.

[Moonbox]

Our class system IS supported by Corporatism which is primarily supported by government. While there are opportunities to rise above one's station in life, it is much harder for those outside of the Corporatist club. Being born into privilege almost always guarantees staying with the power and privilege. Doors are opened for the rich (the extremely wealthy - not just the higher income earners) that are not otherwise available for anyone else.

There is a saying that is surprisingly apt when you talk about very wealthy families. The way it normally works is thus:

The first generation works hard and gets rich

The second generation enjoys that money

The third generation loses it

Yes, riches beget riches, but in VERY FEW cases is that a perpetual thing. Maybe the top 1% of society or less end up permanently wealthy as the generations pass because you basically end up with a critical mass of wealth. Once you have billions and billions, you almost have to TRY to lose it.

Most wealthy families, however, unless fabulously so, have the wealth dwindle via inheritances and spoiled children/grandchildren.

There are exceptions obviously, but we ALL know that Bill Gates' kids are not going to be geniuses like their dad. They'll live mediocre, albeit wealthy, lives and they'll likely never do anything remarkable. Eventually that money runs out until the next genius is born.

[Huston]

I find the public education a huge road block in person 'class' movement. It is structured for the few, and at higher levels of post-secondary level too expensive a bubble forming. Essentially that bubble is lack of real world experience, too theoritical, and provides a false market, with limited options requiring more money. The money and the risk involved is far too much for most people. In fact, I would prefer a limited the education system (especially the indoctrination part of it) and let the market decide. But hey.. but that's a free-market. We can't have that.

[Griz]

I find the public education a huge road block in person 'class' movement. It is structured for the few, and at higher levels of post-secondary level too expensive a bubble forming. Essentially that bubble is lack of real world experience, too theoritical, and provides a false market, with limited options requiring more money. The money and the risk involved is far too much for most people. In fact, I would prefer a limited the education system (especially the indoctrination part of it) and let the market decide. But hey.. but that's a free-market. We can't have that.

The answer lies in shipping all the whiners back to Europe

[Army Guy]

I fail to see how it is the governments problem, should it not start at home, and how we teach our kids....

[Huston]

The answer lies in shipping all the whiners back to Europe

Huh? If you are not going to say anything, why post?

[Huston]

I fail to see how it is the governments problem, should it not start at home, and how we teach our kids....

It is the government fault, because it is regulated in such a manner now, that any options are standardize. So if you are not in a standard situation, tough luck. Government enforces positive liberty and it is far too limited in its scope. Parents cannot provide, nor can the education system, both ultimately stymie options.

[BigAl]

I fail to see how it is the governments problem, should it not start at home, and how we teach our kids....

Correct again, Army Guy. We are entirely too willing to blame government (or media or whatever) for the problems with our children, when in fact it is our responsibility as parents and as a community to instill base morality and promote tolerance in our youth.