How low can Israeli supporters sink

[KeyStone]

Ahem.... a "single rocket"?

In the months that there was supposedly a 'truce', there were over 3 dozen rocket and mortar attacks. Not one. dozens.

Obviously, there was more than a single rocket. My point is that you don't seem to acknowledge that eliminating 98% of the rocket fire is a significant step, so where do you draw that line. Is one rocket enough to justify killing hundreds? Five? Twenty? It seems that anything short of perfection is justification enough.

I'm particularly amazed at your willingness to dismissed dozens of attempts to kill Israeli citizens (not soldiers, but citizens... women, children, the elderly, etc.) is dismissed as just a 'single rocket', something that should be tolerated.

Please tell me who HAS killed more civilians - Israel or Palestine?

Please tell me who HAS killed more children - Israel or Palestine?

Repeating the mantra that Israel isn't TRYING to kill civilians doesn't mean much when they kill hundreds of them, including children.

Even if their prime intention is to kill Hamas members, the sheer number of civilians being killed suggests a cruel indifference to the lives of the Palestinians.

- Not have an organization in power with the stated goal of the destruction of Israel

- Should actually be shown to be making an attempt to stop the rocket attacks and other activities such as digging tunnels and kidnapping soldiers by, you know, actually arresting those involved

- Not be showing TV shows like "Tomorrow's Pioneers".

Hamas denies Israel's right to exist. Israel denies Palestine's right to exist.

Hamas doesn't arrest Hamas soldiers who kill Israeli civilians, Israel doesn't arrest IDF soldiers who kill Palestinian civilians.

Given the number of Hamas prisoners 'kidnapped', kidnapping IDF soldiers seems fair. Didn't you say that they should be targeting military?

I agree that the TV show is blatant anti-semitism and that free-speech should be curtailed in this instance, but it is not as if Israel and Jewish supporters do not engage in massive campaigns to discredit Muslims and Arabs. They are just far more clever about it.

Yes, perfection may be a difficult goal to achieve, but your willingness to dismiss Palestinian culpability is rather distasteful.

Both sides are culpable. There is no question in my mind.

Your willingness to defend the death of hundreds of civilians and suggest that it was the only or best alternative, is ludicrous, particularly in the face of the progress made during the ceasefire, which you now disregard.

By the way, while you're trying to suggest that Israel should just accept constant bombardment, I want you to think of Hezbollah in Lebanon. Israel used to be subject to attacks from the north, until they actually invaded in 2006. The result? The attacks pretty much stopped. In fact, when there was a recent attack from Lebanon during the recent fighting, Hezbollah actually condemed the attackes and acted against those responsible. Hezbollah learned... why not Hamas?

Well, it is an interesting analogy, but dangerous if Israel thinks it can get its way through violence, and murder.

The difference is that Israel does not control Lebanon in the same way that it controls Palestine. Lebanon is independent. They can trade, they have their own country. They can move on and focus on other things. Palestine can not. They have nothing else.

The fact that Hamas (you know, the people elected to run Gaza) has as its goal the total destruction of Israel suggests that perhaps there is not as much progress as you might think.

So long as the ruling party of Israel does not intend to recognize Palestine, I see no reason why the ruling party of Palestine needs to recognize Israel.

So, the leadership going from Fatah (a group that at least was willing to recognize Israel's right to exist) to Hamas (a group that has as its charter the goal of destroying Israel) is considered a sign of progress?

You don't seem to understand progress. If we lower maternal mortality rates, and life expectancy in Canada, we can say that we have made progress on health care, even if there is still a shortage of MRI machines. You do not have to make progress on each element of the peace process, in order for their to be progress. Do you not think that a 98% reduction in rocket fire is progress?

Yeah, how dare those dirty Israelis make any attempts to stop the kidnapping of Israelis.

Yes, that's right. Because we all know the only way to fight fair is to wear uniforms and stand in a field where no civilians are so that Israel can bomb the shit out of them with their billion dollar warplanes.

Believe it or not, there are alternatives that Hamas could engage in besides hiding behind baby carriages while they shoot at Israelis. Militarily they could restrict their attacks to actual military targets.

Well, let's ignore your ridiculous baby carriages comment for a moment and consider how Hamas could only attack military targets.

That worked out pretty well when Lebanon captured a couple of IDF soliders, didn't it? It seems that even though they were military targets, Israel had no problem justifying killing numerous civilians.

What military targets do you think they should attack and how should they go about it?

Perhaps they should only attack the unmanned drones that hover overhead firing missiles? I'm sure Israel would like that. Perhaps they should get dressed up in uniforms and march towards the Israeli border? That should last about ten minutes before the billion dollar warplanes blow the sh!t out of them? They don't have the technology to accurately target military operations from Palestine (neither does Israel apparently)

They could restrict their movements to unpopulated areas (not "standing in a field"... believe it or not, the gaza strip consists of hundreds of square kilometers. If this really were some sort of legitimate military force, they would make use of some of that land.

Oh, unpopulated areas? That's totally different than fields. How long do you think they could maintain operations in these unpopulated areas before Israel used their superior weaponry to annihilate them? Listen, any time Israel wants to show how brave they are, i guarantee you, that you would have no problem finding Hamas fighters willing to fight unarmed, or with daggers, as long as the fight is fair. Calling them cowardly because they don't want to stand in the middle of a field to shoot at unmanned missle-firing drones with a pistol and a pitchfork, is a little absurd.

I'll get back to the rest later.

[ironstone]

Hey,since you call us "Israeli supporters"and think we are pretty low,can I call you a Hamas/Hezbollah supporter?

[ironstone]

One more thing,any group of "fighters"that routinely hides among civilians are indeed cowards.That would be a description that fits Hamas perfectly.

[jbg]

Hey,since you call us "Israeli supporters"and think we are pretty low,can I call you a Hamas/Hezbollah supporter?

And they indeed routinely sink very low. See below.

One more thing,any group of "fighters"that routinely hides among civilians are indeed cowards.That would be a description that fits Hamas perfectly.

[ironstone]

Keystone makes an interesting point with the question of who HAS killed more.And the answer is....the Israelis have killed more.

I have another question.Who has TRIED to kill more?I guess launching rockets indiscriminately at a target and hoping they kill someone,anyone,is not a very efficient method of causing death.Highly effective as a psychological weapon though.

What a truly f****d up world this is,where there is widespread support and sympathy for groups like Hamas etc.Palestinians wanting peace are more likely to die at the hands of Hamas than from any Israeli.Don't be so afraid of reason....

[jbg]

What a truly f****d up world this is,where there is widespread support and sympathy for groups like Hamas etc.Palestinians wanting peace are more likely to die at the hands of Hamas than from any Israeli.Don't be so afraid of reason....

How true.