Oleg Bach Posted December 25, 2008 Report Posted December 25, 2008 The most important thing during this recession is to instill confidence in the money. Repeatedly, I have mentioned that our monetary system is a belief system, a religion. Now that religion has run the first leg of the race - It has collapsed half way to the finish line with no more energy left for the next leg of the relay. The only people that can bring hopeful courage back to the system are those that are in control of that system. They are the ones that have horded and gathered wealth for almost a full generation - there only purpose was growth of personal wealth. No real benevolent social purpose what so ever - simply the accumulation of first wealth and then total power. There is a serious defect in those that took it all and never put anything meaningful back...because they have functioned as trained...take and take and NEVER give other that what makes them appear to be caring and that which generates even more income through tax deductable charitable orgainizations. So, now that suddenly the extreme rich and powerful have found total success - that success now amounts to total and absolute failure. Wealth by declaration just is not going to cut it anymore - people everywhere are realizing that the god like rich that they aspired to be and that they worshipped all their lives are hopeless failures crying out for a bailout welfare payment in order to maintain the religion. It looks like it's pretty much over for the top dogs in the nation and in the world - for the only way they can keep going and keep the established way of doing things afloat is to instill faith and hope in the people - the problem is these people can not give nor are they capable of giving hope - because they have never given a thing to anyone in all their miserable lives..even though hope and faith are without cost - They are incapable of generating it - The old top dogs are NOT capable of learning a new trick. These dogs actually believed that power consisted of the disempowerment of all others. When in reality the granting and generation of power to others is the only real power - My dad taught me one thing.."There are others" - There fathers taught them one thing also - "There are no others, other than you" Well - reality strikes - there are many many others - a whole world of them . Now the world has turned on this stupified elite - by understanding one thing - that they shit - and don't give a shit - now all they will get is the same they gave the world. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 26, 2008 Report Posted December 26, 2008 I don't think so Oleg. There have always been wealthy folks, and there has always been poor folks. Some folks work hard and get nowhere, some never work at all. The important consideration is the freedom to choose. The basis of all that we do in this nation and around the entire world is that we are free to choose. The key is decision making which is education dependent. Making good choices provides greater benefit to the individual. Would you rather be the richest guy in a city that was to poor to provide any sort of service or would you rather be a guy that had much in common with the rest of the citizens and you all had access to great services. Yes it is all about money, not the possession of it you understand but the lack of it. The hope that citizens can find exists within their own purview. We can participate in the political process to the extent that we are capable of and interact within our society to agitate for beneficial change or we can hide our heads in the sand. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 28, 2008 Report Posted December 28, 2008 You may have a point. Capitalism does give anyone an opportunity to become wealthy. However, when the basis of Capitalism is in trouble, we should be able to look to the benefactors to help keep the system afloat. That doesn't mean asking them for hand outs, but maybe if they took some of that accumulated wealth and SPENT IT, to stimulate the economy; they would help ensure the continued success of the system. Spending keeps industries afloat and generates much needed tax dollars. Hoarding does neither. Instead of looking for bailouts maybe you could encourage your rich friends to buy a new car. If they don't need a new car, buy it anyway and raffle it off for charity. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Mr.Canada Posted December 28, 2008 Report Posted December 28, 2008 It is far easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle then for a wealthy person to get into heaven. As Jesus would say. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 28, 2008 Report Posted December 28, 2008 We live in a class based society whether we choose to believe so or not. It is not up to the rich folks to bail us out. The rich will be hurt just like the poor will be hurt, we are all going to get hurt. Even so, we will prevail and move on. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 We're not asking the rich to bail us out. However, they are rich because of the Capitalist System or by inheriting from someone else who got rich because of the Capitalist System. If there is no spending power Capitalism is in trouble which threatens future wealth. I believe the initial thread was about hoarding. If the benafactors of the system simply hold on to what they've got, how long before thay have to start dipping into it? Why not instead spend a little to keep the system going and ensure future wealth? The poor sure can't do it. Just a thought. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
eyeball Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 We live in a class based society whether we choose to believe so or not. It is not up to the rich folks to bail us out. The rich will be hurt just like the poor will be hurt, we are all going to get hurt. Even so, we will prevail and move on. The pain of the rich is so short-lived compared to the poor though...its just not fair. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Progressive Tory Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 The pain of the rich is so short-lived compared to the poor though...its just not fair. I agree. I'm in a lot of ever lasting pain. I'd be willing to assume the woes of the rich for awhile. My portfolio is protected by poverty. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 Envy is the ticket to despair. Do not begrudge the success of others, instead work to achieve the position for yourself. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 Envy is the ticket to despair. Do not begrudge the success of others, instead work to achieve the position for yourself. But Confucius says: "In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." We need to share the wealth, then everyone's happy. Did I just say that? Maybe I am a Socialist. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
eyeball Posted December 29, 2008 Report Posted December 29, 2008 But Confucius says: "In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." We need to share the wealth, then everyone's happy. Did I just say that? Maybe I am a Socialist. What we really need to share is power or govern it better. I think that's what Confucius probably meant. So, can the extremely powerful generate any hope or can they only get wealthier? Maybe the poor beggars don't have any more choice than anyone else. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 What we really need to share is power or govern it better. I think that's what Confucius probably meant.So, can the extremely powerful generate any hope or can they only get wealthier? Maybe the poor beggars don't have any more choice than anyone else. Then get onboard with the concept of direct democracy. Let the politicians propose but let the people decide. Allow the people to propose. There is no better way. Quote
eyeball Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 Then get onboard with the concept of direct democracy. Let the politicians propose but let the people decide. Allow the people to propose. There is no better way. I have been onboard that for at least 20 years now. Its completely hopeless. It appears the only way to redistribute power on this planet is with violence. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 I don't think so Oleg. There have always been wealthy folks, and there has always been poor folks. Some folks work hard and get nowhere, some never work at all. The important consideration is the freedom to choose. At what point did the poor get the power of choice? Quote
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 Then get onboard with the concept of direct democracy. Let the politicians propose but let the people decide. Allow the people to propose. There is no better way. Direct democracy forced Socrates to drink poison hemlock. Quote
ToadBrother Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 Envy is the ticket to despair. Do not begrudge the success of others, instead work to achieve the position for yourself. Surely not all wealth generation is equal. If I walk into your house and steal everything you own, does that mean you shouldn't begrudge me my success? Or, alternatively, if I use the markets the way a greedy kid might use a piggy bank, enriching myself while the rest of the system goes under, no one has the right to begrudge me my success? Quote
Oleg Bach Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Posted December 30, 2008 Surely not all wealth generation is equal. If I walk into your house and steal everything you own, does that mean you shouldn't begrudge me my success? Or, alternatively, if I use the markets the way a greedy kid might use a piggy bank, enriching myself while the rest of the system goes under, no one has the right to begrudge me my success? My original point was that most highly trained intergenerational rich - are not very good at giving - they love our public liberal school system that from an early age teaches our children to "share" - mean while they send their kids off to England for schooling and are taught - never to give or share unless it benefits them socially and finacially - the rich are crippled by this mind set...and quite hopeless - yet they ask us to bail out their failed companies. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 It's much harder for a wealthy person to get into heaven. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Progressive Tory Posted December 30, 2008 Report Posted December 30, 2008 It's much harder for a wealthy person to get into heaven. Hmmm. Not sure that's true. We can't really say that all rich people are evil. Of course we have as much chance of knowing the financial status of those in hell as we do proving that it even exists. Is that from the Bible? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
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