Religious Right in Canada

Melanie_ · December 21, 2008

So what is this thread about? You've brought in homosexuality and abortion several times, which seems to indicate they are topics on the table. But, if they aren't, I'm going to ask for the third or fourth time, what specific policies of the Conservative Party do you see as being based in Biblical teachings? How do you perceive the Conservatives to be less secular than the other parties?

Keepitsimple · December 21, 2008

Perhaps it might be better to look at reasons why these religious segments are no longer supporting the Liberals. I think it's a little of both. Conservatives have put in place a family agenda - child support bonuses, seniors income splitting, various family targeted tax deductions, etc. They are also not afraid to mention the word religion or faith - although it is not a prominent plank in their platform. The vast majority of new Canadians come from Conservative cultures and are looking for fairness, law and order. Many who came to Canada when the Liberals were in power were conned into thinking the Conservatives were scary.....and the divided right did not help. Now they are starting to see - with the capable help of Jason Kenney's outreach - that they have more in common with the Conservative party. The Liberals on the other hand, have taken secularism so far left that they are afraid to utter the word religion or church or Islam....and their descent into being a rudderless and corrupt ship with Adscam and Dion's folley has laid bare any claims that they are the Natural Governing Party. There is definitely a quantum shift underway.

punked · December 21, 2008

LEt's try to stay on topic instead of making this thread about queers and abortion. Which it isn't, ok.

You were the one making it about that I was saying Catholics, and Jesus specifically preached tolerance. One of an inclusiveness of all peoples regardless of how bigots, much like those who killed Jesus, feel about different types of peoples.

My favourite West Wing moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

Jesus taught us to follow his teachings, all of them.

Argus · December 21, 2008

The Conservative Party's official position on same sex marriage is that it is here to stay. They aren't actively opposing abortion, either, or adultery, so I'm still not seeing the connection you are making between the Conservatives and the Biblical teachings you are quoting.

Is it really surprising to anyone that most religious folks would vote Conservative? Come on.

How much of the gay vote do you think the Tories get? Would it shock you if I suggested - not much?

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

Is it really surprising to anyone that most religious folks would vote Conservative? Come on.
How much of the gay vote do you think the Tories get? Would it shock you if I suggested - not much?

The secu-socialists cannot fathom anyone voting for the Tories for some reason.

punked · December 21, 2008

Jesus taught us to follow his teachings, all of them.

When did Jesus preach on the Gays? When did Jesus mention abortion? I remember Jesus saying the rich can not get into heaven Mark 10:17-25, I remember a little bit about the poor in spirit going to heaven, I know Jesus said the the merciful will be the ones shown mercy, and I know he said

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God" But I don't remember him saying "make sure two men who love each other are never treated equal"

In fact I can not think of one thing Jesus said or taught that links up with the Conservative party. It would do you well Mr. Canada too close your old testament and open your new. It might just change your life.

Melanie_ · December 21, 2008

Is it really surprising to anyone that most religious folks would vote Conservative? Come on.
How much of the gay vote do you think the Tories get? Would it shock you if I suggested - not much?

Argus, I agree that the Conservatives get the Christian vote; that's what the opening post's link was all about. That's not really what I'm asking Mr. Canada, though. He keeps linking Conservative policy to Biblical teachings, and claims that they are less secular than the other parties.

The trend of Christians voting Conservative cannot be denied. They are finally starting to see that we Christians have more in common with the Tories and Harper then the other Parties who wish to further a secular agenda. Secularism is the enemy of Christianity and the Christians are finally starting to understand that.

All I want is a something specific that shows that.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

Argus, I agree that the Conservatives get the Christian vote; that's what the opening post's link was all about. That's not really what I'm asking Mr. Canada, though. He keeps linking Conservative policy to Biblical teachings, and claims that they are less secular than the other parties.
All I want is a something specific that shows that.

It's all in the article and Angus/Reid poll. The fact that now more than ever that Christians are voting Tory proves that.

Melanie_ · December 21, 2008

No, its not in the article. In fact, the article states

People who attend conservative churches have coalesced around the Conservatives, when they used to vote pretty much like the general public. It is a big change in a short period of time. You have to wonder why. It is clearly not because the Conservatives are running on moral issues or have taken any action on Evangelical hot-button topics. They have actually stayed pretty far away from that agenda and stuck to an economically-focused type of conservatism. So it is hard to know how long this pattern will hold, in the absence of any carrots or commitment from the Conservatives."

So, again, yes I recognize that Christians are voting more for the Conservatives. I'm asking you why. You seem to see the Conservatives as having a less secular agenda, and I'm asking you to point to something specific that makes you think this. I've asked this over and over, but you are dancing around it rather than addressing it. Maybe I'm not being clear enough? What in the Conservative party platform or policies is attracting Christian voters?

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

No, its not in the article. In fact, the article states
So, again, yes I recognize that Christians are voting more for the Conservatives. I'm asking you why. You seem to see the Conservatives as having a less secular agenda, and I'm asking you to point to something specific that makes you think this. I've asked this over and over, but you are dancing around it rather than addressing it. Maybe I'm not being clear enough? What in the Conservative party platform or policies is attracting Christian voters?

I answered this on the first page. Here it is again...

Christians who are regular church goers are more socially conservative then those that do not. Pretty simple. At least with the Tories there is a chance for socially conservative policy. This would never happen with any of the other parties. This is just my opinion mind you.
I bring the facts you can take them any way you want. You're a socialist so anything to do with God is foreign to you as Christianity is the enemy of the Secu-Socialist.

I didn't write the article or take the poll, I'm posting them , that's it. I don't know why as it is an opinion question. Maybe that'll be the next set of poll questions, you'll have to contact Angus/Reid for that. I gave my opinion on the first pagw which I quoted here for you. Clear enough?

Melanie_ · December 21, 2008

Actually, no, it isn't clear at all. You said

Not only that but Christians are starting to vote as the Bible says. For a party that best identifies with Christians, has the best party policies that are in line with Church teachings.

and

we Christians have more in common with the Tories and Harper then the other Parties who wish to further a secular agenda.

The article says Christians are voting Conservative, but it doesn't say why. You have said it is because the Conservatives are less secular than the other parties, and follow the Bible more closely. All I'm asking for is an example of this, from your own perspective.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

I gave my reply I'm not answering anymore of your silly questions. You're really hung up on one thing I said?

Socially Conservative = Church

Socially Conservative = Sometimes Tories

Socially Conservative = NEVER Liberals and NDP

Is this clear enough for you? I'm describing it to you as I would a child so I hope you are good now.

BC_chick · December 21, 2008

He's obviously not going to bite Melanie, though I commend your patience.

The thing is, your question is a double-edged sword... if he points out specific examples of Harper's demonstrated social conservatism, he would be validating the 'scary' image of Harper which the CPC has desperately tried to tarnish.

If he states that there is nothing particularly socially conservative about Harper's policies, our block of conservative-voting Christians appear pathetically naive.

Lose-lose situation.

Melanie_ · December 21, 2008

Thanks, BC_Chick. I was beginning to feel like a dog with a bone, but you're right, and I guess I'll just let it go now.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

I gave my reply I'm not answering anymore of your silly questions. You're really hung up on one thing I said?
Socially Conservative = Church

Socially Conservative = Sometimes Tories

Socially Conservative = NEVER Liberals and NDP

Is this clear enough for you? I'm describing it to you as I would a child so I hope you are good now.

This answers your question perfectly. For the chance of Socially Conservative policy. This chance would never be a chance with any other party.

Michael Hardner · December 21, 2008

Here's a hint Melanie - Mr. Canada has a difficult time explaining his opinions. I suspect that the hand of God may be placing the ideas in his head without context.

His explanation is here, but only the last sentence has value for you:

Christians who are regular church goers are more socially conservative then those that do not. Pretty simple. At least with the Tories there is a chance for socially conservative policy. This would never happen with any of the other parties. This is just my opinion mind you.

You asked for a reason, though, and since I find it frustrating myself getting good answers from Mr. Canada, I'll answer you.

Says that people who are religious vote conservative, but the mistaken implication is that people who are religious vote conservative BECAUSE they are conservative.

In fact, people who are religious may also tend to be: old, wealthy, rural. These are what are called 'co-factors'.

I'll give you a glib example: I could publish a poll saying that people who watch "Matlock" tend to be incontinent. Without context, you may opt to not watch the show for fear of wetting your pants. In fact, the reason is that Matlock watchers tend to be very, very old.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing: in the original article there was a claim of a so-called "swing" to Harper - that shows a 29% increase in votes for practicing Catholics and a 25% for practicing evangelicals. Sounds convincing right ?

Wrong.

Canadians in general tended to vote for Harper 27% more in 2008 than 2004. His overall percentage in 2008 was 37.65 % versus 29.63 % in 2004.

So Harper got 25% more votes from evangelicals ? BIG DEAL. The average joe on the street was 27% more likely to vote for Harper anyway.

Therefore, this poll is wrong. The religious right in Canada is fading. Influence on the hard core church going protestants (who are bedrock Conservatives by the way) is DECREASING for the conservatives. They're likely voting for the Canadian Family Coalition or some other flat earth society that wants to ban dinosaur textbooks.

Sorry for the strident tone here, but really Mr. Canada submits low-quality high-volume noise on this site.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Michael Hardner

Michael Hardner · December 21, 2008

I would like to reiterate the point of my last post clearly so that Mr. Canada gets it:

The Conservative Party of Canada lost influence with evangelical voters, compared relative to the rest of the Canadian population.

The high numbers for religious folks supporting the CPC is likely based on co-factors.

Mr. Canada's awkward use of statistics continues unabated and in related news, the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

What a surprise. A Torontonian trying to tell us how we should live. Urban folks know best right? Liberal arrogance.

Smallc · December 21, 2008

What a surprise. A Torontonian trying to tell us how we should live. Urban folks know best right? Liberal arrogance.

How ironic. You accusing others of telling you how to live your life while you try to do the same to them.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Smallc

Michael Hardner · December 21, 2008

Mr C,

People should live any way they like.

But if they try to make up fake arguments using statistics, they shouldn't expect to take sanctuary in the church.

Stay away from science, it doesn't work well for you.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

How ironic. You accusing others of telling you how to live your life while you try to do the same to them.

No, no,no. Canada would be a better place if people were taught proper morals and having good values. It starts in the home. This is my entire point.

IF having good morals and solid family values is a bad thing for society then I guess I'm guilty.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Mr.Canada

punked · December 21, 2008

No, no,no. Canada would be a better place if people were taught proper morals and having good values. It starts in the home. This is my entire point.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

How about you stop with the righteousness Jesus says it does not look good on you. I seriously dont believe you have ever opened a Bible.

Smallc · December 21, 2008

No, no,no. Canada would be a better place if people were taught proper morals.

Define those for me please. I'm sure we won't agree on your definition.

Mr.Canada · December 21, 2008

Define those for me please. I'm sure we won't agree on your definition.

Standard stuff. Follow the 10 Commandments or w/e one wishes to call them. Don't do drugs, use alcohol responsibly or not at all. Value family, respect your elders. Stay in school, don't be a crack dealer and don't shoot people. Always vote. Be a person of your word. The list goes on.

If this is a bad thing for Canadians to aspire to then I'm guilty.