Racism

[CANADIEN]

again... ad hominem abusive... why even make such a pronouncment? Are you too confused in your temper tantrums to notice that I HAVE BEEN TO JAPAN? I was also an exchange student in Venezuela through A.F.S. for a year. And notice of course that i'm am PRAISING JAPANESE CULTURE..

and still... after all of that... you call MOI close minded and xenophobic?

keep deferring attention away from the argument, the most minimally discerning amongst us know that you can't refute what I say.

:lol: Of course, you were praising japanese culture. for being homogenous and for being diverse. it's one or the other. Make up your mind, will you?

As for you being xenophobic... and more... your postings tell the story big time.

[lictor616]

You mean the Japanese society (unlike you) is not afraid of what is different? Interesting, btw, that you value it both for its homogeneity and its diversity. But then, the expectation that you will ever make sense is one I do not have.

lol one minute your agreeing with the statement that Japanese society is "isolationist, xenophobic, oppressive and racist"... now you're saying "they're not afraid of what is different"?

which is it canadien? no wonder you can't make sense of anything... scrambled eggs all the way for you eh?

I happen to think Canada should base its immigration policies on the Japanese model... that would be "different" wouldn't it?

[CANADIEN]

no talk about any silly "RACIAL EQUALITY EITHER" genius... back to your cave now..

Did I ever say that there was, or was not, equality between races? What I have said, and is proven by simple logic, is that race has nothing to do with intellectual capacity or character. Nice to see hat you are STILL trying the bit of intellectual dishonesty that consists in pretending I hold a position I have not expressed.

And thank you for recognizing that compared to you even I sound like a genius.

Edited July 4, 2009 by CANADIEN

[lictor616]

:lol: Of course, you were praising japanese culture. for being homogenous and for being diverse. it's one or the other. Make up your mind, will you?

As for you being xenophobic... and more... your postings tell the story big time.

You seem quite xenophobic yourself... i don't know that your liberalism would be capable of enjoying the rest of the world... that is for the most part: VERY ANTI- EGALITARIAN and a rebuke to everything you stand for.

And to clear the cobwebs from your confused mind... JAPAN IS RACIALLY HOMOGENOUS... YET IT IS STILL CAPABLE OF ENJOYING WHAT IT FEELS ARE THE BEST FOREIGN INFLUENCES...

Hence they have shawarma's without Muslims and sharia law, they have basketball without blacks, they have baseball without americans, they have mexican food without mexicans, they have western technology without westerners, they have Scotch without scotts, they have opera's without Italians...

does that register better? no right? then don't bother...

[CANADIEN]

lol one minute your agreeing with the statement that Japanese society is "isolationist, xenophobic, oppressive and racist"... now you're saying "they're not afraid of what is different"?

which is it canadien? no wonder you can't make sense of anything... scrambled eggs all the way for you eh?

I happen to think Canada should base its immigration policies on the Japanese model... that would be "different" wouldn't it?

Actaully, I haven't said anything about the Japanese society, except to point out the contradiction in your own posting. The comment about the Japanese society being ""isolationist, xenophobic, oppressive and racist was made by someone else. As for MY writing they're not afraid of what is different", I was mocking you for praising their homogeneity and diversity at the same time.

That being said, I'll take Canada as a societal model over Japan any day... and nnothing to do with skin colour.

Edited July 4, 2009 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

You seem quite xenophobic yourself

:lol:

don't know that your liberalism would be capable of enjoying the rest of the world... that is for the most part: VERY ANTI- EGALITARIAN and a rebuke to everything you stand for.

Your usual intellectual dishonesty as work again. My position is clear, and, unlike yours, logical: we are all humans, we are/should be equal under the law, and the measure of an individual is his/her own actions, and opinions. egalitarian is not what describes my position.

And to clear the cobwebs from your confused mind... JAPAN IS RACIALLY HOMOGENOUS... YET IT IS STILL CAPABLE OF ENJOYING WHAT IT FEELS ARE THE BEST FOREIGN INFLUENCES...

If they close themselves to other people, no they don't.

[lictor616]

Actaully, I haven't said anything about the Japanese society, except to point out the contradiction in your own posting. The comment about the Japanese society being ""isolationist, xenophobic, oppressive and racist was made by someone else. As for MY writing they're not afraid of what is different", I was mocking you for praising their homoggeneity and diversity at the same time.

That being said, I'll take Canada as a societal model over Japan any day... and note because of their skin colour.

!?

Why do you mock my position: of praising homogeneity and "diversity" at the same time?

Do you think a country cannot be diverse without different races living in it?

How do you keep avoiding my point that we can be homogeneous and still be able to seek out what we consider are the best foreign influences?

Furthermore... I wonder.. do you think that a country cannot have a Chinese restaurant without chinese living in it? Do you believe that a colony of Italians are necessary to have an opera house?

and hear the glorious anti-racist speak:

"I'll take Canada as a societal model over Japan any day... and note because of their skin colour."

that's right BECAUSE of their skin color..... wow... thank you for suiciding your argument... (although to be frank it was already dead to begin with)

[Griz]

The question pertained to the roots of racism. I fired back with my belief that it originates from whites who believe they built this country and done everyone a great big favour by showing up in boats. If you're an immigrant yourself, why should you complain about immigaration 100, 200, 300 years later? Fess up gentel white reader--you too are an immigrant and I mean no offence about poop and pee but you have to admit, the boats back then didn't have showers and Europe is a long ways a way

your "truth" is that the ancient solutreans never existed and that Europeans are doused in urine and festooned with excrement, are stupid and have no claim on canada?

is this your view of reality?

[Remiel]

And to clear the cobwebs from your confused mind... JAPAN IS RACIALLY HOMOGENOUS... YET IT IS STILL CAPABLE OF ENJOYING WHAT IT FEELS ARE THE BEST FOREIGN INFLUENCES...

Hence they have shawarma's without Muslims and sharia law, they have basketball without blacks, they have baseball without americans, they have mexican food without mexicans, they have western technology without westerners, they have Scotch without scotts, they have opera's without Italians...

But they did not recreate basketball, nor baseball, nor Western technology, nor Scotch, nor opera without help from Westerners, who under your views they should not ever tolerate to walk among them. In other words, if the world were to have conformed to what you wish, they would have none of those things.

[lictor616]

Your usual intellectual dishonesty as work again. My position is clear, and, unlike yours, logical: we are all humans, we are/should be equal under the law, and the measure of an individual is his/her own actions, and opinions. egalitarian is not what describes my position.

oh that's grand coming from you...

"we are all humans?" okay, take me down that road please: what does that EVEN mean?

"equal under the law" what law? did you know that countries have different sets of them?

but wait a minute hmmmm lets see how equal we are under the law HERE IN CANADA:

"Equality Rights"

15. (1) Every individual is equal before the and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability.

(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because or race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability.(5)

hahaha in other words we're all equal... except of course if your skin is a certain color, if you swing a certain way and if you have some sort of deficiency ... then ... you're slightly MORE equal and not really subject to "equal rights"

ouch right? doesn't that hurt canadian... now let me see your next bit of ad hominem nonsense...

[lictor616]

But they did not recreate basketball, nor baseball, nor Western technology, nor Scotch, nor opera without help from Westerners, who under your views they should not ever tolerate to walk among them. In other words, if the world were to have conformed to what you wish, they would have none of those things.

not at all of course... japanese are capable of having (and do) all these things on their lonesome.. they don,t have a colony of 15 000 scotts living there to show them how to fill a hoggshead cask full of whiskey.... sorry.

why would they "recreate it"? what are you talking about?

The japanese did also CONTRIBUTE to western science and technology more then any other non western ethnicity...

[CANADIEN]

!?

Why do you mock my position: of praising homogeneity and "diversity" at the same time?

because it is absurd

Do you think a country cannot be diverse without different races living in it?

It iis not about races Diversity is part of humanity. As i have said before, and as you have tried in vain to distort, diversity in racial features does not make a society stronger or weaker. Attempts at enforcing uniformity will always make a society weaker though.

How do you keep avoiding my point that we can be homogeneous and still be able to seek out what we consider are the best foreign influences?

Pointing how ridiculous your position is is hardly what I would consider avoiding it.

Furthermore... I wonder.. do you think that a country cannot have a Chinese restaurant without chinese living in it? Do you believe that a colony of Italians are necessary to have an opera house?

What can i say, Chinese culture is better when there are chinese around. Same with Italian culture.

and hear the glorious anti-racist speak:

"I'll take Canada as a societal model over Japan any day... and note because of their skin colour."

that's right BECAUSE of their skin color..... wow... thank you for suiciding your argument... (although to be frank it was already dead to begin with)

You keep forgetting I am the king of typos, right/ Already corrected it, btw. Better luck next time.

Edited July 4, 2009 by CANADIEN

[lictor616]

If they close themselves to other people, no they don't.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Do you need a Jamaican friend to enjoy rum? Do you need to pall around indian people to like butter chicken?!

dude give it a rest...

[lictor616]

What can i say, Chinese culture is better when there are chinese around. Same with Italian culture.

LOL! I guess you,ve completely destroyed your own point... Without the authentic people "races" you can't have the authentic cultural aspects...

that's funny ... I was'nt expecting that from a rabid egalitarian... So it follows that western culture is better the more WESTERNERS we have...

so we really aren't all the same are we?

[CANADIEN]

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Do you need a Jamaican friend to enjoy rum? Do you need to pall around indian people to like butter chicken?!

dude give it a rest...

Nice trying to distort what I say.

I did not say food, I did not talk about drinks. I referred to culture... as a whole.

[lictor616]

Nice trying to distort what I say.

I did not say food, I did not talk about drinks. I referred to culture... as a whole.

since when is food not tied in to culture? and no, what you were saying- you were saying if people were like me (which i don,t know what that is... and you didnt bother to specify) .. the world would'nt have basketball... or something or other..

[CANADIEN]

LOL! I guess you,ve completely destroyed your own point... Without the authentic people "races" you can't have the authentic cultural aspects...

that's funny ... I was'nt expecting that from a rabid egalitarian... So it follows that western culture is better the more WESTERNERS we have...

so we really aren't all the same are we?

:lol: The lenghts of absurdity you would go when LYING about my opinion is truly amazing.

Just that others are not confused, I'll clarify things. Human beings are not equal when it comes to character and intelligence. Nothing to do with skin colour. I know quire a few people, of different races and cultures, who I consider to be fine human beings. Then there's me... not that fine, but I've seen worse. Then there's the bottom of the barrel. wwhere lictor sits (un)happily.

Is that clear enough now?

[CANADIEN]

since when is food not tied in to culture? and no, what you were saying- you were saying if people were like me (which i don,t know what that is... and you didnt bother to specify) .. the world would'nt have basketball... or something or other..

Once again, did I say that there was no relationship between food and culture? Nope.

And where did I even mention the word basketball?

Now, if one were to admit that non-sense of your that race determines character and intelligence, you'd definitely have to be considered a low-level race on your own.

[Strangles]

what a deceitful reply.

? And why does preference for one's race AUTOMATICALLY MEANS you hate others?

Does appreciation for your own race automatically means your detest others? Really surely you thought of that before...

And freedom of association doesn't Mean FORCED INTEGRATION... People usually SELF SEGREGATE regardless ... people should be free to do associate with who they want... If people want to self segregate, it doesn't mean they'll be subjugating other people.

why is it okay to have a "black community" or a "black college" but not a white one?

Does appreciating your own race mean claiming superiority over others and subjugating them as second class citizens?

If people are free to do as they want then why were there so many rules that forced separation in our neighbor in the south? In South Africa? In Australia? In Canada when it came to dealing with natives?

People do prefer their own race, only when there is a different culture.

The reason why there are black schools and universities (however, not exclusive to blacks whites can enroll too) is because until the 60s, blacks in most states were excluded from attending higher education colleges, making centres of higher learning de-facto white.

This is very similar argument the KKK would write in their leaflets, and I quote "...Rules to re-establish the god given superiority of the white-man". This re-iterates the views of modern day racialist (of all colours) regarding race, however appreciation of one's race does not constitute enforcement of "god given rules" of one over another.

Regarding the question of FORCED integration, this is another fallacy by modern day proclaimed race whores. Separation was never separate but equal as the southern states like to claim. The taxation of 'negros' in the south was equal, however the redistribution of services, voting rules, and law enforcement practices remained highly slanted against him. It was one of the primary reasons the supreme court smashed the Jim Crow laws once and for all, for such a system of separated races could never be equally enforced.

The idea that black cops could patrol black neighborhoods, black lawyers would defend black convicts, black entrepreneurs would start black companies was repulsive the the southern white men. The system had to be destroyed and integration had to happen.

A true separate but equal system where no race would have dominance over another would be destructive to the nation, far more than integration or separate BUT UNEQUAL.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Strangles

[Strangles]

Are you serious in claiming that the Japanese doesn't have an NAACP chapter because "it doesn't want to" address the problem of black inequality? NONE LIVE THERE GENIUS!

Yes Koreans and Chinese are the minorities... how's that for Diversity in Japan... their only minority groups are CLOSELY related and often INDISTINGUISHABLE.

Japan an small Isolationist culture!?!?!?! Have you ever even been there? of course not!

Japan is actually a devastating refutation of the ignorant view that homogeneity means dull uniformity. (This is the implication, of course, of the common assertion that immigrants have livened up Canada, saving it, presumably, from the suffocating sameness of "whiteness").

Japan has as much variety—cultural, esthetic, culinary—as we have here in our befouled diverse country. Whether it is clothing styles, amateur orchestras, motorcycle clubs, art exhibits, restaurants or museums, Japan is fully diverse, there are countless ways to be japanese, countless outlets of japanese lifestyle. Traditional Japanese instruments like the koto and shamisen have never been more popular, but Japan also produces internationally-known classical musicians (Seizi Ozawa to name one of them) ... here sample this bit of western musical mastery championed here by Ozawa)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzMGzBKRttU

In addition to its own sports like sumo or judo, Japan has mastered baseball to the point that it sends Japanese stars to the major leagues... So clearly you entire argument of "isolationist" close minded dumb Japanese collapses with a pinprick... I could also go on and comment on how marvelously well run and progressive Japan is... it is MILES ahead of the US and canada in science and technology... their cities (despite the overpopulation) are spotlessly clean, their streets have no pot holes, their crime rate is a slither of ours, their average IQ higher then our own, their economy much more solid (despite their few resources).

so please, go to Japan, I have been... and it will perhaps (if you are not immune to logic) open your eyes to the wonder of a society not at grips with the "multicultural squalor" and "racial problems" we have in north america...

Actually I have been to Japan, S.Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan.

To a Japanese person a Korean is a white to a black man in north America.

Japan has a very rich and deep culture, and in no way do I insult them by stating that they are naturally an isolationist country. But they are. "Japanese only", "no wide eyes allowed", all signs I've come across in Japan. The young generation may love American culture, but the Japanese nationalists may not be so friendly. You should talk to some, I have.

Japan has a history of suspicion to those outside of it, I would suggest you read about British and American traders murdered in Japan when it first opened its shores. Japan is a beautiful and highly developed country, but socially there are skeletons in its closet. In addition; Japan in its history had no colonization aspirations until the British and Americans forced them to open up and they saw that the only way to industrialize was to have access to natural resources which it did not have, we know the rest of the story.

Japan is homogeneous as a nation. It is an island. Japan did not create colonies with slaves in the western hemisphere. If it did, it would have the same issues as contemporary western nations such as America and Brazil, and to a far lesser extent Canada. Britain is a special case since it is the opposite of Japan, they are very open and have a history of encouraging free trade and migration of people (Canada, America, and Australia for example).

I actually don't know what to say regarding the rest of your post since it is a rather useless rant regarding Japanese sport, opera, useless youtube links which is no different than any other modern day country so I'll leave it at that.

[Strangles]

my belief is not that "SKIN COLOR is a determinant factor in the value of human beings"... My position (one supported by the scientific community) is that there is no such thing under the sun as equality... And that race (or genetic inheritance) does have an impact on the character (physical and mental) of a population.

Asians did not build civilizations equal to that of Africans...

You proved my early point regarding colour has nothing to do with it. Not all Africans are equal, not all Asians are equal.

The empire of Nubia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia) for example far surpassed anything built by the jungle dwellers of central Congo.

While in Asia, with far larger population cluster, the Indians from the Hindu Kush built far more powerful Empires than the Tamils (Tamil Nadu) and the Han Chinese built far more powerful and organized regimes than the Tibetans or South Vietnamese. And there's a big difference in results today.

The pendulum of power constantly swings, there was a time when the Roman considered Nubian (black) generals the smartest warriors, and thought the Germans as primitive northern Savage. Now it is the German who looks upon the Nubian as the primitive savage.

I wouldn't be astonished if by the end our lifetimes it is the Africans or brown South Americans that astonish us at abilities. Don't get too hung up on skin colour and phenotypical traits of a people for it is far more that counts regarding civilization building.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Strangles

[lictor616]

Japan is homogeneous as a nation. It is an island. Japan did not create colonies with slaves in the western hemisphere. If it did, it would have the same issues as contemporary western nations such as America and Brazil, and to a far lesser extent Canada. Britain is a special case since it is the opposite of Japan, they are very open and have a history of encouraging free trade and migration of people (Canada, America, and Australia for example).

Japan did however colonize and virtually enslave Manchuria, Sinkiang, and much of south east asia more then once in its history..... they weren't in the western hemisphere... but how is that relevant?

Funny you should say that, actually Japan has been called the "Britain of East" by The newsletter of United Nations University, Noam Chomsky, John J. Mearsheimer and many others.

Far from being the opposite of Japan, you can barely put a cigarette paper between the two countries... both are even constitutional monarchies! Uk is open how? there has only been 3rd world immigration there for a few decades...

[Strangles]

Japan did however colonize and virtually enslave Manchuria, Sinkiang, and much of south east asia more then once in its history..... they weren't in the western hemisphere... but how is that relevant?

Military conquest is not the same as long term colonization and settlement. What England did with its North American colonies, Australia, African colonies and India cannot be compared to Japan's feat.

Funny you should say that, actually Japan has been called the "Britain of East" by The newsletter of United Nations University, Noam Chomsky, John J. Mearsheimer and many others.

Irrelevant. I won't even get into it I believe you're smarter than that.

Far from being the opposite of Japan, you can barely put a cigarette paper between the two countries... both are even constitutional monarchies! Uk is open how? there has only been 3rd world immigration there for a few decades...

Absolutely false. Japan was an absolute dictatorship until in 1945 it was forced to adopt a western style democracy and forced to give up its offensive military machine.

Britian has always exported human capital. The British have heavily populated Canada, the USA, Australia, South Africa, and to a lesser extent India, Kenya (more Brits in Kenya than Kenyans in Britain), Botswana, and many more have scattered throughout the world. This cannot be compared with Japan.

Hence there are people from the formers colonies who have moved to the UK and the government of the UK sough to deal with it by enacting rules that would help ease the friction.

A direct comparison between the UK and Japan is akin to comparing Bananas to Chiwawas.

[Griz]

Lictor! Do yourself a favor and don't believe everything you think!! You're only making yourself look foolish as well as the right-wing element. Once again, the original question was about the roots of racism, and I stated that I believe one cause is the fact the Europeans excuse the fact they too were immigrants and they act as though they built this country all on their own. All of Lictors responses help solidify my point.

[enlightment]

Lictor! Do yourself a favor and don't believe everything you think!! You're only making yourself look foolish as well as the right-wing element. Once again, the original question was about the roots of racism, and I stated that I believe one cause is the fact the Europeans excuse the fact they too were immigrants and they act as though they built this country all on their own. All of Lictors responses help solidify my point.

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