LesterDC Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Canada is NOT better off without Quebec.. Our Francophone culture is just as important as our Anglophone culture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Canada is NOT better off without Quebec.. Our Francophone culture is just as important as our Anglophone culture That's just bullshit. There is no francophone culture of any significance outside of quebec. I know that in most parts of Canada, the Indo-Canadian or Chinese Canadian cultures represent a FAR greater significance than the frenchies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 That's just bullshit. There is no francophone culture of any significance outside of quebec. What is Alberta culture? Is it as distinct as francophone culture? Does it exist outside of Alberta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 What is Alberta culture? Is it as distinct as francophone culture? Does it exist outside of Alberta? Who gives a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Is there majority support for separation? If Canada is divisible, is Alberta divisible? If a clear majority doesn't support separation, will the minority attack those opposed to separation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Too busy paying for your healthcare, guyser. 1. Your not paying for anything that Ontario has. They still send MORE out every year than Alberta. They are only getting a tiny fraction of that back this year. 2. Quit talking about separation (of any province). This country is about more than politics and if you can't see that then maybe YOU should leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySeinfeld Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 1. Your not paying for anything that Ontario has. They still send MORE out every year than Alberta. They are only getting a tiny fraction of that back this year. You need to take an economics lesson. They're a NET taker. Ontario is a basket case old fashioned manufacturing economy reliant on the doomed detroit automakers. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 You need to take an economics lesson.They're a NET taker. No, they're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 No, they're not. If you've been following the news, Ontario is about to receive equalization for the first time. Which basically means that excess monies collected from wealthy provinces such as Saskatchewan and Newfoundland will be provided to Ontario to help maintain the level of services. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Thats not how it works. Equalization comes from federal tax revenue. I'm pretty much certain that Ontario residents pay more than $347M a year in federal taxes. They ae a net contributor. A massive net contributor. All hat is happening now is that they are getting a very small portion of that back in order to bring their provincial fiscal capacity up to the new average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HistoryBuff44 Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Is there majority support for separation? If Canada is divisible, is Alberta divisible?If a clear majority doesn't support separation, will the minority attack those opposed to separation? is that not what block supporters are doing in quebec now? they are not a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 ssive Conservatives stabbed us in the back... the belief that our paltry handful of MPs just doesn't matter in Ottawa anyway, that we could send Liberal, send PC, or send the Moose Party, it's all the same: a token representation with no impact at all... the belief that the Liberals could legalize kindergarten prostitution rings and Ontario voters would still put them in power. Hey, Harper took 51 Ontario seats last election. The biggest chunk of the ones which remain loyally Liberal are in Toronto - home to the nation's highest immigrant and highest gay populations. How many of Toronto's 650,000 gays do you think voted Tory last time around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Thats not how it works. Equalization comes from federal tax revenue. I'm pretty much certain that Ontario residents pay more than $347M a year in federal taxes. They ae a net contributor. A massive net contributor. All hat is happening now is that they are getting a very small portion of that back in order to bring their provincial fiscal capacity up to the new average. How can they be a massive net contributor when (as you recognize) their fiscal capacity is below the national average and the government is nearing a deficit? The $347 million equalization payment is in addition to the $14.1 billion dollars of regular funding Ontario will receive this year through Canada Health and Social Transfers and other federally funded programs. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Canada is NOT better off without Quebec.. Our Francophone culture is just as important as our Anglophone culture Good F'ing riddance to our F'ing Francophone culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) How can they be a massive net contributor when (as you recognize) their fiscal capacity is below the national average and the government is nearing a deficit?The $347 million equalization payment is in addition to the $14.1 billion dollars of regular funding Ontario will receive this year through Canada Health and Social Transfers and other federally funded programs. -k Every province gets the other transfers. Ontario is a net contributor. Dwight Duncan said the number is around $11B that they will send out this year. Their fiscal capacity is below the "average" of the program, but that doesn't change the fact that massive amounts of federal tax (which is where the money for equalization comes from) is collected in Ontario each year. Its the same for Alberta. They don't actually send money out for equalization in any other way than through federal tax. They just don't get any back because they have enough to get by on their own (though they do get the Social and Health transfers). Edited December 3, 2008 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 How can they be a massive net contributor when (as you recognize) their fiscal capacity is below the national average and the government is nearing a deficit?The $347 million equalization payment is in addition to the $14.1 billion dollars of regular funding Ontario will receive this year through Canada Health and Social Transfers and other federally funded programs. -k No. he's actually right for once. Ontario is a net contributor. I'm not entirely sure how the math is worked out. I suspect that the "have not" status is AFTER the feds have robbed us of billions in extra taxes that don't come back to us. Think about it logically. You can't take enough from the much smaller populations of Alberta and Saskatchewan to pay off the freeloaders in Quebec alone. Harper just increased their transfers by $4.5 billion per year in an attempt to buy votes there. Did you get the bill for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Good F'ing riddance to our F'ing Francophone culture. Opinions are kind of like...well.....you know how the line goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 No. he's actually right for once. I'm hurt. I rarely argue in anything other than facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I'm hurt. I rarely argue in anything other than facts. Whatever you say Smalll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Whatever you say Smalll Yes, that may have been a poor choice for a name given that the political test tells me I was lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have a solution, legalize pot so you can all have a hoot and mellow out a bit. Plus it will make millions if not billions to boost our economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornAlbertan Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Every province gets the other transfers. Ontario is a net contributor. Dwight Duncan said the number is around $11B that they will send out this year. Their fiscal capacity is below the "average" of the program, but that doesn't change the fact that massive amounts of federal tax (which is where the money for equalization comes from) is collected in Ontario each year. Its the same for Alberta. They don't actually send money out for equalization in any other way than through federal tax. They just don't get any back because they have enough to get by on their own (though they do get the Social and Health transfers). Ok...so Ontario contributing $11B with 12,891,787 people = 853.26 per person. Alberta contributing $11B (2003 figure) with 3,512,368 people = 3131.79 per person. "From 1961 to 2002 (the most recent year for which Statistics Canada data is available), Alberta made a total net fiscal contribution to the federal government of $244 billion, compared with $315 billion for Ontario and $54 billion for B.C. By far the largest fiscal transfers in Canadian history occurred through the national energy policies in the 1970s and 1980s, when the net transfers from Alberta alone associated with regulated energy prices amounted to $79 billion." http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/weekly/nov...berta-pays.html ====== Don't anyone DARE try to equate Ontario's contributions to Alberta's. Ontario has had the lap of luxury when it comes to many things Canadiana. Sure, Alberta collected equalization for a couple years way back when...but we have more than paid it back....been screwed over several times in the past. We now have massive taxation without representation... TIME FOR ALBERTA TO CUT IT'S LOSSES AND GET THE F*** OUT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 TIME FOR ALBERTA TO CUT IT'S LOSSES AND GET THE F*** OUT!! That type of statement is simply pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HistoryBuff44 Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ok...so Ontario contributing $11B with 12,891,787 people = 853.26 per person. Alberta contributing $11B (2003 figure) with 3,512,368 people = 3131.79 per person. "From 1961 to 2002 (the most recent year for which Statistics Canada data is available), Alberta made a total net fiscal contribution to the federal government of $244 billion, compared with $315 billion for Ontario and $54 billion for B.C. By far the largest fiscal transfers in Canadian history occurred through the national energy policies in the 1970s and 1980s, when the net transfers from Alberta alone associated with regulated energy prices amounted to $79 billion." http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/weekly/nov...berta-pays.html ====== Don't anyone DARE try to equate Ontario's contributions to Alberta's. Ontario has had the lap of luxury when it comes to many things Canadiana. Sure, Alberta collected equalization for a couple years way back when...but we have more than paid it back....been screwed over several times in the past. We now have massive taxation without representation... TIME FOR ALBERTA TO CUT IT'S LOSSES AND GET THE F*** OUT!! you should put quebecs numbers in for comparison... they paint a great picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Talk of separation is pretty silly.Among my family and friends, I have heard lots of people talk about separation in a flippant way, but never in a serious way. I think the famous "Republic of Alberta" bumper-stickers represent a hearty "up yours" to old-line Ottawa politics, not an actual intent to separate. For the most part. Among my family and friends, I've never heard serious separatist sentiment, but what I did used to hear all the time is utter contempt and cynicism with regard to federal politics in Canada. The belief that the Liberals care about little outside of the Windsor-Montreal corridor... the belief that the Progressive Conservatives stabbed us in the back... the belief that our paltry handful of MPs just doesn't matter in Ottawa anyway, that we could send Liberal, send PC, or send the Moose Party, it's all the same: a token representation with no impact at all... the belief that the Liberals could legalize kindergarten prostitution rings and Ontario voters would still put them in power. Harper's victory in 2006 challenged all of this cynicism. For almost 3 years, the system delivered a result that made people think "wow, this thing ... actually works?" This coalition, though, it will reignite all of the cynicism with an intensity that exceeds the darkest days of the Gomery Inquiry. It can't do anything but make people decide that federal politics in this country is more broken than they ever imagined. -k Excellent post from one of the best posters on this forum. I live here and can say I've never heard a single Alberta politician complain about the great disparity between what Albwerta contributes to equalization and what Alberta receives from Ottawa. I don't expect that to change, but I do expect what Alberta contributes to change, and change dramatically. Alberta is getting hit very hard with greatly reduced world oil prices, which means Canada is going to get hit very hard too. With Ontario in the dumps, maybe one of the eternal leeches like Manitoba or Quebec could pick up the slack. Wouldn't that be 'progressive'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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