Flashback to 2000 and 2004

[msj]

This has probably already been posted, and buried in the other thread on the latest attempt at a coalistion government.

Just wanted to ensure that some facts are out there.

So, here is an interview between Harper and the CBC's Evan Solomon back in 2004:

http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/harper.html

Solomon: Okay well let's skirt around the issue a little bit - are you preparing, do you have a plan in the event the government falls to form a government instead of calling an election?

Harper: No such plan. Our plan is always to be ready to be an alternative government. But my assumption is the Liberals will make the compromises necessary to be a government in this Parliament.

Solomon: Now I've known you for a while, chance favors the prepared mind, no one would accuse you of not being a prepared mind. You're telling me you don't have a plan B in the event this government falls to a confidence vote - you haven't talked to other parties - Layton, Duceppe, anybody - about forming a government?

Harper: I'm telling you that I've always my responsibility is to be prepared to form a government so we're always working at that.

Solomon: With who?

Harper: Well I've said I would not form a coalition under any circumstances - I said that in the election campaign, nothing changes. I expect we're going to put forward our program for the country, how we would make the House of Commons work. I know that Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Layton don't want an election, I think the Liberals may have a different view. We'll just see. We'll do whatever's necessary but I think we're going to be the official Opposition in this Parliament, I think that's how things will work.

Solomon: I just want to clarify something - you won't work with other parties

Harper: No I said we will work with other parties..

Solomon: You will, but you won't form a coalition -

Harper: No.

Solomon: You won't form a coalition, therefore in the event this government falls we cannot expect you to turn to another party and try to form a government, in other words it will be an election?

Harper: Well you're getting into a lot of hypotheticals...

Solomon: That's what this is all about!

Harper: I've said we wouldn't, we're not looking to form a coalition, the Bloc Quebecois has been very consistent that they're not going to form a coalition with anybody, so we wouldn't look to form a coalition - but the present government isn't in a coalition either.

Solomon: So why did you write that letter to the Governor-General with Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton saying in the event of a confidence vote situation do not call a snap election - are we to assume that therefore you're working to form a coalition?

Harper: There seems to be an attitude in the Liberal government - that they can go in, be deliberately defeated and call an election - that's not how our constitutional system works. The government has a minority - it has an obligation to demonstrate to Canadians that it can govern. That it can form a majority in the House of Commons. If it can't form a majority, we look at other options, we don't just concede to the government's request to make it dysfunctional. I know for a fact that Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Layton and the people who work for them want this Parliament to work and I know if is in all of our interests to work. The government has got to face the fact it has a minority, it has to work with other people.

Solomon: Other options meaning that you would have to govern though - don't you have to be in a coalition de facto - isn't that the implication?

Harper: The current government believes it doesn't have to be in a coalition and I share that view. There's a lot of options in the House of Commons - what I expect the Liberals to do is try to seek different allies for different pieces of legislation.

Solomon: This is a fascinating...

Harper: That's what I think they'll do but they're going to have to make some compromises to do that...

Solomon: This is fascinating because usually we think of the Leader of the Opposition in a minority government as trying to bring the government down - you're saying they want to bring themselves down and they want to continue the status quo! Which is a kind of ...

Harper: Canadians want the Parliament to work - but look we're not going to roll over to agree with the government just so they can stay in office. But as I say we've been away from minority government's for so long we've forgotten how they work. The government is still the government. The official Opposition is still the Official Opposition. And these two parties are still going to battle for govenrment in the next election. And that's how the system works. There's going to be other parties, the third parties and that's usually where the government's going to have to seek its mandate to try to get a majority in the House of Commons and it's - that's really their primary responsibility. They've got to get these other parties supporting them regularly or they can't command the confidence of the House. And the same would be true for me if I had the most seats, I would have to find a way of governing.

Solomon: Is there a similarity between this government and the Joe Clark government?

Harper: We'll see. We'll see - time will tell - but there does seem to be an attitude that they can govern as if they have a majority. And as I've told you I think Joe Clark taught us I think that's the wrong attitude to have in a minority Parliament.

Oh, and a copy of that letter which is signed by Harper, Layton and Duceppe - but don't call it a "coalition."

http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/11/h...t-hypcrite.html

Harper's letter to the Governor General of September 9, 2004

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

-From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper

(September 9, 2004)

[ThatGuy]

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/power-play/#clip117957

You couldn't make it up. Flaherty is nuts. Scroll through to 7 minutes and watch away.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged thread; old OP title: "Question Period - Love it"

[ThatGuy]

For a government that relied heavily on the Bloc for the past two years, they have lost the plot.

[Topaz]

For a government that relied heavily on the Bloc for the past two years, they have lost the plot.

Just wait until the Cons have to elect a new leader, it'll be Alberta members vs Ontarians!

[ThatGuy]

Just wait until the Cons have to elect a new leader, it'll be Alberta members vs Ontarians!

It could tear them apart again.

[M.Dancer]

For a government that relied heavily on the Bloc for the past two years, they have lost the plot.

You will have to show me the accord...

[ThatGuy]

You will have to show me the accord...

Accord?

Just look to the voting records over the past minority government's tenure.

[Alta4ever]

Accord?

Just look to the voting records over the past minority government's tenure.

There was no back room deal, the bloc could have turned at any time but they have a history of always voting against the current government.

The coalition has invited them into a backroom deal that would gove them pwer and not have to air it in the house.

[M.Dancer]

For a government that relied heavily on the Bloc for the past two years, they have lost the plot.

Let the records show....

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=504

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=586

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=580

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=591

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=603

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=617

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=621

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?id=622

Sure doesn;t seem like the BQ and the Conservatives work together very much...

Anyway, it goes without saying that the opposition party that gave the Conservatives the longest running minority goverment in Canadian history is.....

The Liberals.

[M.Dancer]

Accord?

Just look to the voting records over the past minority government's tenure.

I just did. Perhaps you should too

[ThatGuy]

I just did. Perhaps you should too

The Liberals don't vote enough for me to be interested

[msj]

Accord?

No, no accord.

But this doesn't mean that Harper has not considered himself to have worked in "close consultation" with the NDP and BQ in the past:

QUOTE

Harper's letter to the Governor General of September 9, 2004

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

-From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper

(September 9, 2004)

If he can sign a letter with them in 2004 then I'm sure he, just like the NDP and Liberals now, could have found a way to work with them (or even the NDP or Liberals) now (although it appears that he prefers to burn bridges rather than build them).

[ThatGuy]

Good post msj.

As for the earlier statements, I am not sayign that the Liberals and NDP didn't vote with the Tories once in awhile, but so did the Bloc. The CPC wasn't complaining as long as they were on the Harper Team.

[charter.rights]

Just wait until the Cons have to elect a new leader, it'll be Alberta members vs Ontarians!

Heck...it might even be say the REFORM versus the Progressive Conservatives......or say the Canadian Alliance versus the Conservatives... deja vu......

[scribblet]

There was no 'accord' with the bloc because Harper could not agree to their demands, but the axis of evil doesn't mind. 6 senate seats to the bloc ugh !

[Alta4ever]

There was no 'accord' with the bloc because Harper could not agree to their demands, but the axis of evil doesn't mind. 6 senate seats to the bloc ugh !

As I asked Dobbin what are you goving the block his reposne nothing.

Now this.

The Liberals and NDP sold this country to Bloc.

1.3 billion immediatly

six senate seats,

and veto.

Please who do you think will be runningthis country?

[Sir Bandelot]

Please who do you think will be runningthis country?

Maybe it will be good for Canada. I prefer the french canadian style to the english, who are wipers of other peoples bums.

[jdobbin]

There was no 'accord' with the bloc because Harper could not agree to their demands, but the axis of evil doesn't mind. 6 senate seats to the bloc ugh !

Totally false.

[jdobbin]

As I asked Dobbin what are you goving the block his reposne nothing.

Which Liberal said this? Totally bogus. There isn't even six seats vacant in Quebec.

[jdobbin]

If he can sign a letter with them in 2004 then I'm sure he, just like the NDP and Liberals now, could have found a way to work with them (or even the NDP or Liberals) now (although it appears that he prefers to burn bridges rather than build them).

And don't forget the accord the Alliance signed with the Bloc in 2000.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081203/...t_crisis_letter

The separatist Bloc Quebecois was courted by Stockwell Day's Canadian Alliance party eight years ago to form a coalition similar to what is being proposed today.

The proposal was contained in a letter from well-known Calgary lawyer Gerry Chipeur prior to the November 2000 election, in which Jean Chretien's Liberals won a majority government.

The letter undercuts the Conservative government's line this week that it would never sign a deal with the separatists, as the Liberals and New Democrats did this week.

Yup. And most Tories keep denying it.

[Jobu]

And don't forget the accord the Alliance signed with the Bloc in 2000.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081203/...t_crisis_letter

Yup. And most Tories keep denying it.

Dobby, I don't see anything that was signed.

I could produce a letter agreement like this if you'll just give me a few minutes...

[jdobbin]

Dobby, I don't see anything that was signed.

I could produce a letter agreement like this if you'll just give me a few minutes...

Jabba, the letter was seen by the Canadian Press. Gerry Chipeur is on the air soon so maybe we can clear this up, right?

Edited December 3, 2008 by jdobbin

[BC_chick]

As the 'separatist coalition' accusations get uglier and uglier, the plot thickens:

OTTAWA — The separatist Bloc Québécois was part of secret plotting in 2000 to join a formal coalition with the two parties that now make up Stephen Harper's government, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

The scheme, designed to propel current Conservative minister Stockwell Day to power, undermines the Harper government's line this week that it would never sign a deal like the current one between the Liberal Party, the NDP and the Bloc.

Bloc officials said that well-known Calgary lawyer Gerry Chipeur sent a written offer before the votes were counted on election day on Nov. 27, 2000.

According to prominent sovereigntist lawyer Eric Bédard, who received the proposal, Mr. Chipeur identified himself as being close to Mr. Day, the leader of the Canadian Alliance at the time.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...203.wquebec1203

Never one to make the CPC look like the bunch of hypocrites they're being these days, Day was quick to deny the allegations:

Federal Trade Minister Stockwell Day denied on Wednesday he was aware of a secret plan in 2000 for him to take power through a formal coalition between the Bloc Québécois, the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/03/day-bloc.html

When you can a case of he said vs. he said, I say look at the motives. Who has more to gain who has more to lose on this...?

Edited December 9, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged thread; old OP title: "Alliance plotted the same thing in 2000, Of course Stockwell Day is denying so...."

[M.Dancer]

When you can a case of he said vs. he said, I say look at the motives. Who has more to gain who has more to lose on this...?

I there was anything to it we would have heard about it 8 years ago. As it stand it sounds like a hypothetical what if between party non entities...

Just think what Chrtien could have done trotting out that the CCRAparty was in bed with separitists...kiss good bye half ofntheir seats out west and all (2-3?) seats in Intario.

[Donaill]

Its not a what if. The PC, and Reform parties did want an alliance with the Bloc.