Who's to blame for the Budget Deficit?

[jdobbin]

On a side note, the budget deficit would be 10 times worse under NDP or Liberal leadership. So in a way, we're kind of lucky.

Past Liberal government have a reputation of cutting. If Harper can't control his spending, he will likely be shown the door because it is hard to blame the Liberals for a deficit they didn't create.

[madmax]

and the truth shall set us free.

Yup.

[Oleg Bach]

Being free is much like the rebel stallion that jumps the fence and finds out there are no oats in his new brave world.

[Wilber]

Seems to be it is the spending. The Tories were warned that the tax cuts without subsequent spending cuts was a dangerous thing but did it anyway.

It was working fine until the economy went in the dumpster. Martin was cutting taxes as well. He also increased spending by over 9% while he was in power. Basically, there was little difference between them on that score, other than what taxes they would cut and what they would spend on.

Bottom line, "it's the economy stupid".

[Oleg Bach]

Getting back to who is to blame for the deficit? Maybe it was the same guys who put "the economy in the dumpster"? And they are long gone.

[Wilber]

Getting back to who is to blame for the deficit? Maybe it was the same guys who put "the economy in the dumpster"? And they are long gone.

Our economy will go into the dumpster because the world wide market for our goods has gone into the dumpster. So who do you blame?

The first depression didn't start here and neither will the next, but it will kick the crap out of us just like the first one did.

[jdobbin]

It was working fine until the economy went in the dumpster. Martin was cutting taxes as well. He also increased spending by over 9% while he was in power. Basically, there was little difference between them on that score, other than what taxes they would cut and what they would spend on.

It wasn't working fine. Martin of all people knew that spending beyond the rate of inflation and population growth while cutting taxes was going to create a problem. Harper continued that policy and then some by cutting taxes more and continuing spending at a pace.

Blaming the upticks and downticks in the economy for ending up in deficit and absolving the government from using better fiscal management is just not going to stick.

The Liberal government went through some difficulties where every other industrialized government slipped into deficits. September 11 and SARs were huge financial hits. The government didn't go into deficit.

Harper has thrown up his hands on the issue of the deficit. He just can't seem to get his spending under control. He can't blame this coming deficit on anyone except himself. Blaming the economy does not absolve him from better management which was in his domain to offer.

[madmax]

Rant all you want about who is at fault but when you get right down to it, "it's the economy stupid". Revenues are going down but everyone still wants a bigger piece of the pie. The worse things get, the more people will expect from governments that have less to give.

If the government does not to accept responsibility for their fiscal ineptness, then we could be headed for more fiscal mismanagement. If they accept that they created the deficit in the 1st place, and now have to deal with a reduction in revenues from tax breaks, past and present as well as a shrinking economy, perhaps they may find the foresight to deal with what lies ahead.

It sure as heck isn't the tax payers who are to blame. I have heard enough nonsense, and that takes the cake.

You are correct that the worse things get the more people will expect from governments that have less to give. Unfortuneately the CPC already gave away the store, and the cupboards are bare.

[Oleg Bach]

Hate to say it - but you can not become right untill you admit you were wrong. What do you think the effect would be if the Conservative leadership were to state - we caused the deficit and we are sorry but we ill try to learn from our mistakes and fix it? Who knows the Canadian tax payer might be understanding and forgive you...but to go into the inner mind of the average citizen to see what the reaction would be - is not something accomplished by polling. Soon as money is envolved a family fight might break out - like aunt Martha admitting that she took the family savings and invested it in an herbal medicine company in Nicaragua that cures cancer.

[Wilber]

Blaming the upticks and downticks in the economy for ending up in deficit and absolving the government from using better fiscal management is just not going to stick.

What hole do you have your head in? This isn't a downtick. There won't likely be a government in the developed world that isn't in deficit by the end of next year no matter which way they lean politically.

The Liberal government went through some difficulties where every other industrialized government slipped into deficits. September 11 and SARs were huge financial hits. The government didn't go into deficit.

Not near the hit we are experiencing now. A large portion of the worlds banking was not in danger of collapse and the market did not lose 50% of its value in less than two months with no end in sight, on either of those occasions.

It sure as heck isn't the tax payers who are to blame. I have heard enough nonsense, and that takes the cake.

If people expect and demand more from a government than it is in a position to deliver, they are to blame.

You are correct that the worse things get the more people will expect from governments that have less to give. Unfortunately the CPC already gave away the store, and the cupboards are bare.

Governments don't give anything because they don't produce anything. They merely redistribute that which others produce. They didn't give away the store, they stopped taking as much from the people who earned it. If the economy goes in the tank and people stop producing and earning, there will be nothing to take, or give.

[Oleg Bach]

You are right about that. Even tax bureacrats will not attempt to inforce collection..they will continue to make the usual moves in order to appear employed but nothing of value will actually move. For instance, my brother had the tax department released on him during a bickering with his wife in the court system (they are now happy) - a primary weapon used by lawyers is to make their advesary a target for the tax collectors. Now - he supports the wife and children and all is well - It is a hand to mouth existance and he works hard in the private sphere, building shelter for rich people - He does wonderful work. On his dash board is a stack of unopened tax bills. Out of curiousity I asked him to open and show me the amount...It was stunning - It was about one hundred thousand dollars.

No way in hell could he ever pay that or even a small part of it. He would have to live in a tent and feed the kids cold beans for ten years. The tax department will not inforce the collection because they know there is no money...but they will continue to send out tons of paper work and the tax payer that can pay will pay for that bureacratic makes work program. As the previous writer states that nothing will move - he is spot on. The government will eventually become a burden onto itself...and seek to surive for all the wrong reasons.

[jdobbin]

What hole do you have your head in? This isn't a downtick. There won't likely be a government in the developed world that isn't in deficit by the end of next year no matter which way they lean politically.

Why do you feel the need to insult? Is that your only response when people disagree with you?

A number of economists including the budget officer have said that Canada would not be in deficit if spending and tax cuts had been handled differently.

Not near the hit we are experiencing now. A large portion of the worlds banking was not in danger of collapse and the market did not lose 50% of its value in less than two months with no end in sight, on either of those occasions.

The government was warned about not having a reserve fund and keeping its spending in line for this very reason of an apparent bubble. If we go into deficit $12 billion, it is directly related to the tax cuts and spending.

Conservative supporters are prepared to let the government off on their management of things. For how long, I don't know.

[Shady]

The CPC inherited HUGE surpluses and stated that they had no intention of maintaining huge surpluses.

You speak as if HUGE suprluses are a good thing. In fact, giant government surpluses are bad. In means that government is taking more than is should from the tax-paying public, as well as sucking billions of dollars out of the economy. Small surpluses are much better, and even the odd deficit, but any government who maintains huge surpluses is doing the wrong thing.

10 times worse

Yeah, I lived through what Bob Rae and the NDP did to Ontario. No thanks. Not again.

It sure as heck isn't the tax payers who are to blame

I agree 100%. There isn't a deficit because people aren't paying enough in taxes, that's forsure.

[madmax]

You speak as if HUGE suprluses are a good thing. In fact, giant government surpluses are bad. In means that government is taking more than is should from the tax-paying public, as well as sucking billions of dollars out of the economy.

Huge Surplusses existed. Whether you consider them good or bad. The CPC have nothing to show for their actions. I support services for taxes. It is why we pay them. I expect responsible government. I have seen neither from this one.... yet I am patient.

Small surpluses are much better, and even the odd deficit, but any government who maintains huge surpluses is doing the wrong thing.

So is a government who has gone into deficit before engaging a recession. This is not the vision of Preston Manning who put federal governments inline. Much the same as Tommy Douglas did in Sask during his terms.

Yeah, I lived through what Bob Rae and the NDP did to Ontario. No thanks. Not again.

Well you appear to agree with Mr. Rae and his Liberal Keysenian economics. Perhaps his biggest problem being a New Democrat was that he was a Liberal, and now is with the party he shares an history with. Other NDP governments have been the most apt at avoiding a deficit. Those figures don't include Tommy Douglas 5 terms, Eliminating the Debt, balancing the budget and bringing in Public Health Care. PC governments have proven a distant 2nd in running balanced budgets.

And worse was Mulroney.....

The CPC haven't done anything other then waste money rapidly. So as much as I may agree with you as to the value of surplus budgets, the CPC have taken those surplus and blown them. It is that simple. They are gone.

I do not believe in running deficits, and I am not a believer that Keynesian Economic theories have any positive effect in open global economies.