Learn French, Quebec orders immigrants

[Argus]

That's infringing my freedom of expression, if I wanted to open a business in Quebec it's my fundamental right to have a sign in any way I see fit and if business suffers, that's my fault.

Liberals like smallc will be completely unable to comprehend this kind of argument. To them, the state has a right to order you to do anything the state feels is in its interests.

[Argus]

It is not about superiority.. Dude, you if you want to move to Quebec you gotta learn the ways.. Why else would you want to live somewhere if you refuse to live the lifestyle? Anyhow, we could all learn a thing or two from the Quebecois people - unity

It's the same sort of unity the Serbians feel; a disdain and contempt for anyone and everyone else, and a belief in the purity and superiority of their race.

[Argus]

There's far more to it than signs. The Official language of business in Quebec is French. That means that all official documents/contracts of a business must be in French. That means that an employee cannot be refused advancement because he doesn't speak English. That means that all operating manuals, parts lists, instructions for machinery, consumer products - even Monopoly games etc, must be supplied in French.

And all that is for a very good reason.

Xenophobia and paranoid ethnic nationalism?

Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens if the likes of Leafless ever got his way.

I... see.... sooooo Leafless is bad for wanting to repress the poor Fench guy, but the French guy is noble and culturally enlightened for wanting to repress everyone else.

Okay, I think I got it.

[Argus]

French is perfectly satisfactory in Alberta? Tell me, what wide range of employment would be open to me in Alberta if I could not speak English?

Alberta needs no laws to enforce the use of English. The market place is doing it for them.

Whereas in Quebec, why all career opportunities are wide open to a non-French speaker!

[Argus]

Hogwash yourself

Because Quebec isnt trying to eradicate the English language. Manitoba would not allow anyone an education in French. Quebec is not doing that. Never has.

I lived in Quebec without being able to speak French and in noway was I oppressed. I can't even think of a single Quebec government policy that 'Oppresses' the pitiful Englishman.

You can buy English language newspapers in Quebec, watch English language TV (they do have cable there, ynow), Listen to English language radio (and not just the CBC),

Where there are numbers, a community provides its own services. How do you imagine the Quebec government could do anything to stop that?

you can even get a job there and not speak French (I did).

You can get a job in Ontario and not speak English, just ask most of our immigrants, but we don't feel it necessary to outlaw other languages in the workplace.

Even if this is the 2000's, without the Quebec laws supporting the use of French, Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens.

Utter, brainless drivel.

To say otherwise is to ignore history.

To say it is to ignore reality.

[Argus]

No, its not. If it was, the law wouldn't be allowed.

The law was ruled unconstitutional, and Quebec overrode the constitution.

[Argus]

It does not in any way.

Fine, genius. From now on you are not permitted to post anything on this site unless it is accompanied by a French translation.

[seabee]

The law was ruled unconstitutional, and Quebec overrode the constitution.

references, please.

To be more precise:

1. When did the SCC judge that the whole law was unconstitutional. (I know that there are many judgements that declared specific sections unconstitutional, and that the law was amended to comply. But they did not invallidate the whole law)

2. When was the last time that the Québec government renew the use of the notwithstanding clause. This is important because, if I am not mistaken, when using this clause, it is valid only for five years, at which time it has to be renewed or the law abandonned and cancelled.

Thanks in advance.

[Peter F]

You can get a job in Ontario and not speak English, just ask most of our immigrants, but we don't feel it necessary to outlaw other languages in the workplace.

Do tell, Argus; What Law in Quebec outlaws English in the workplace?

[White Doors]

No, its not. If it was, the law wouldn't be allowed.

Wrong smallc. Ever wonder why there is no 101 outside of Quebec?

101 is plainly unconstitutional and would be struck down by the Supreme court. Luckliy for Quebec, they didn't sign the constitution and they have the notwithstanding clause in the Charter.

Edited November 5, 2008 by White Doors

[White Doors]

Because it just isn't. You can put any language you like o nthe sign as long as you also include French. You'll live. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

And you are too easily dismissing valid complaints about lack of freedom.

It is very clearly an infringement wether or not you agree.

[White Doors]

Well then I guess you'll just have to be hurt, because it isn't going to change.

My, how progressive of you. I guess you only care about minorities when they don't speak English or aren't white? That's progress alright...

[White Doors]

Fine, genius. From now on you are not permitted to post anything on this site unless it is accompanied by a French translation.

[guyser]

I have been in Quebec and I have been oppressed for speaking English.

If "some" people being rude to you = oppression, I would not agree with you.

Nobody needs laws protecting culture. The first nations don't need laws protecting their culture, and they get to speak whatever they want and have signs in whatever they want. How would French disappear and how would they be treated as second class citizens if the laws didn't exist? If they are as strong as they claim, they don't need protection.

Except FN's do have laws that protect thier culture.

Now what?

[blueblood]

If "some" people being rude to you = oppression, I would not agree with you.

Except FN's do have laws that protect thier culture.

Now what?

Getting screamed at for talking to my buddy by someone half my size for just speaking English is IMO oppression. Had that happened out west, we would be labeled bigots. Same goes for signs, if say I set up a business, I should be able to write what I want.

The FN's don't have laws as sweeping as the Quebecer's unless you count treaty obligations.

Then there are the other minorities, shall we have laws protecting chinese, east indian, viatnamese, sikh, etc.?

[Mr.Canada]

Then there are the other minorities, shall we have laws protecting chinese, east indian, viatnamese, sikh, etc.?

Those people have contributed nothing to the country in the larger picture. The french have been here since what? The 1500's? Over 500 years.

These people have been here what? Since 1980 or later? About 20-30 years. Big difference.

[guyser]

Getting screamed at for talking to my buddy by someone half my size for just speaking English is IMO oppression.

It is not oppression though. An idiot for sure, but there was not legal construct to it.

Same goes for signs, if say I set up a business, I should be able to write what I want.

Yet you can, and so can they, with one caveat, French will be dominant.

The FN's don't have laws as sweeping as the Quebecer's unless you count treaty obligations.

Do Quebecors drive without helmets? Do they fish when they want. Can they drive into, hunt , fish and not be subject to all the laws in a Provincial Park? Are they allowed to use unregistered vehicles on public (but reserve) roads without insurance? Can they show a card and be exempt from some taxes?

Still think the Que'ers rules are seeping? I dont.

Then there are the other minorities, shall we have laws protecting chinese, east indian, viatnamese, sikh, etc.?

None of those are founding peoples of this country. Besides we do have laws to protect them, and us, it is the CCC and Charter.

[blueblood]

It is not oppression though. An idiot for sure, but there was not legal construct to it.

Yet you can, and so can they, with one caveat, French will be dominant.

Do Quebecors drive without helmets? Do they fish when they want. Can they drive into, hunt , fish and not be subject to all the laws in a Provincial Park? Are they allowed to use unregistered vehicles on public (but reserve) roads without insurance? Can they show a card and be exempt from some taxes?

Still think the Que'ers rules are seeping? I dont.

None of those are founding peoples of this country. Besides we do have laws to protect them, and us, it is the CCC and Charter.

Why the need for caveats? That caveat (nit pickingly) does limit my right to freedom of expression.

What you are talking about with the FN's is treaty obligations. Has there been any laws passed protecting their culture like there is in Quebec?

Yes that is all we need the CCC and Charter, no Bill 101 and no immigrant technicalities.

[guyser]

Those people have contributed nothing to the country in the larger picture. The french have been here since what? The 1500's? Over 500 years.

These people have been here what? Since 1980 or later? About 20-30 years. Big difference.

Fingers went before the brain engaged huh?

Look, mr hall monitor, if you dont want to be ridiculed, how about checking the things you write, instead of pretty much always being wrong.

The Chinese , well known as labourers on our national railway. I was unaware it was only built "20-30" years ago. Cuz, you know, I recall being on a train in the 1960's, guess I am mistaken, yea, must be.

Hmmm.... Japanese internment camps, were they near Nanaimo in 1980 , or was it further up Vancouver Island?

And Sikh, East Indians, have given their lives for this country .

I suck at history, but apparently I know more than some. <<cough cough>>>>

[guyser]

Why the need for caveats? That caveat (nit pickingly) does limit my right to freedom of expression.

You are free to express yourself in any language you want.

As for the caveat, there exists many in these lands , and likely some in your neighbourhood. Mennonites have certain rights granted to them only.

What you are talking about with the FN's is treaty obligations. Has there been any laws passed protecting their culture like there is in Quebec?

Yes that is all we need the CCC and Charter, no Bill 101 and no immigrant technicalities.

Thinking about that, is there really any difference? Treaty....law.

A treaty is a law, is it not? By Law, a cop cant charge a motorcycle riding FN without a helmet.

[Mr.Canada]

Fingers went before the brain engaged huh?

Look, mr hall monitor, if you dont want to be ridiculed, how about checking the things you write, instead of pretty much always being wrong.

The Chinese , well known as labourers on our national railway. I was unaware it was only built "20-30" years ago. Cuz, you know, I recall being on a train in the 1960's, guess I am mistaken, yea, must be.

Hmmm.... Japanese internment camps, were they near Nanaimo in 1980 , or was it further up Vancouver Island?

And Sikh, East Indians, have given their lives for this country .

I suck at history, but apparently I know more than some. <<cough cough>>>>

These people were lower class then the founding people of Canada at that time and no input into the over riding culture of this country. They were our source for cheap labour.

I don't recall any coloureds sailing up the St. Lawrence to settle this country. They were all brought by the founding people.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[guyser]

These people were lower class then the founding people of Canada at that time and no input into the over riding culture of this country. They were our source for cheap labour.

Yes they were for the most part. There was racism back then wehen we used those people to build the railway. See, I agree with you.

However, that isnt what you were talking about, and if it were the point was not made.

I don't recall any coloureds sailing up the St. Lawrence to settle this country. They were all brought by the founding people.

"Coloureds" ?

Anyhow, again, that isnt the point you were making. IIRC, the majority of blacks who came to Canada to settle came through the underground railroad, not brought by the founding peoples.

So, "They were all brought by the founding people" is grossly wrong.

Here , read this. Its really short and concise. First 5 paragraphs will do.

http://www.whitepinepictures.com/seeds/i/5/history1.html

[M.Dancer]

These people were lower class then the founding people of Canada at that time and no input into the over riding culture of this country. They were our source for cheap labour.

I don't recall any coloureds sailing up the St. Lawrence to settle this country. They were all brought by the founding people.

"over riding culture"? And that is apropos how?

20 30 years I believe your gaffe was....

Given that "coloureds" have been in Canada since before confederation....I'm sure you don 't recall ..but most of them walked and then farmed, fished.....served in the army, navy.....

Anyway please continue, comedy is sparce Wednesday nights.

[Smallc]

nevermind.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Argus]

Do tell, Argus; What Law in Quebec outlaws English in the workplace?

That would be the law mandating the use of French in the workplace.