Learn French, Quebec orders immigrants

[Peter F]

Actually I was wondering about that very question myself. If one did not speak French and had no desire to learn it but was a Canadian citizen would they be barred from living in Quebec. Personally I don't think they would, they most definitly shouldn't be, but I don't know if they would. Or would they be forced to learn French?

No they are not barred from Quebec and no, they are not forced to learn French.

I know because I moved there from Saskatchewan - married and had two children there, lived and worked there.

Any French I did learn I learned while there, mostly picked up from my children.

[blueblood]

Don't move to Quebec if you don't like it, simple. The law isn't changing so go away please.

And that's a big reason why Americans don't want to invest there. Having a language gestapo throws a big wrench in the economic growth machine. It's a stupid law that limits freedom of expression, what would happen if western canada had similar laws? Why is there a double standard?

[blueblood]

No they are not barred from Quebec and no, they are not forced to learn French.

I know because I moved there from Saskatchewan - married and had two children there, lived and worked there.

Any French I did learn I learned while there, mostly picked up from my children.

So an immigrant is barred from Quebec if they don't learn French??? Shall Toronto bar immigrants for not being leaf's fans? Shall Albertan's bar immigrants for not learning English when french is perfectly satisfactory?

[Peter F]

Wrong!!! Bill 101 was passed. If I set up business in Quebec, my sign HAS to be in French. Quebec was taken to the UN over this kerfuffell and had to introduce some "compromises". No such law would ever be allowed to pass in the rest of Canada without controversy.

There's far more to it than signs. The Official language of business in Quebec is French. That means that all official documents/contracts of a business must be in French. That means that an employee cannot be refused advancement because he doesn't speak English. That means that all operating manuals, parts lists, instructions for machinery, consumer products - even Monopoly games etc, must be supplied in French.

And all that is for a very good reason. Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens if the likes of Leafless ever got his way. Because the likes of Leafless, in fact, did have their way back before the Quiet Revolution. Thus the Quiet Revolution and the Charter of the French Language and, yes, even bill 101...and why Leafless laments the good ol days.

[Peter F]

So an immigrant is barred from Quebec if they don't learn French??? Shall Toronto bar immigrants for not being leaf's fans? Shall Albertan's bar immigrants for not learning English when french is perfectly satisfactory?

French is perfectly satisfactory in Alberta? Tell me, what wide range of employment would be open to me in Alberta if I could not speak English?

Alberta needs no laws to enforce the use of English. The market place is doing it for them.

[blueblood]

French is perfectly satisfactory in Alberta? Tell me, what wide range of employment would be open to me in Alberta if I could not speak English?

Alberta needs no laws to enforce the use of English. The market place is doing it for them.

Very good, the market place can do that in Quebec. Why the need to legislate discriminatory laws?

There's far more to it than signs. The Official language of business in Quebec is French. That means that all official documents/contracts of a business must be in French. That means that an employee cannot be refused advancement because he doesn't speak English. That means that all operating manuals, parts lists, instructions for machinery, consumer products - even Monopoly games etc, must be supplied in French.

And all that is for a very good reason. Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens if the likes of Leafless ever got his way. Because the likes of Leafless, in fact, did have their way back before the Quiet Revolution. Thus the Quiet Revolution and the Charter of the French Language and, yes, even bill 101...and why Leafless laments the good ol days.

Hogwash. This is the 2000's, nobody gets treated like second class citizens. They have TV broadcasts in Mandarin for pete sakes. Nobody could care less about the status of the french language, the problem is legislation that is oppressing those who don't speak french in Quebec. Manitoba tried something like this in its history trying to eradicate french from the province and trying to impose english language laws, it failed and rightfully so. Why should Quebec get a free pass?

[Smallc]

Start up a business and have your sign in only Ukrainian and see what happens.

You can have your sign in Ukranian as long as its also in French. There is no infringement.

[Peter F]

Very good, the market place can do that in Quebec. Why the need to legislate discriminatory laws?

Hogwash. This is the 2000's, nobody gets treated like second class citizens. They have TV broadcasts in Mandarin for pete sakes. Nobody could care less about the status of the french language, the problem is legislation that is oppressing those who don't speak french in Quebec. Manitoba tried something like this in its history trying to eradicate french from the province and trying to impose english language laws, it failed and rightfully so. Why should Quebec get a free pass?

Hogwash yourself

Because Quebec isnt trying to eradicate the English language. Manitoba would not allow anyone an education in French. Quebec is not doing that. Never has.

I lived in Quebec without being able to speak French and in noway was I oppressed. I can't even think of a single Quebec government policy that 'Oppresses' the pitiful Englishman.

You can buy English language newspapers in Quebec, watch English language TV (they do have cable there, ynow), Listen to English language radio (and not just the CBC), you can even get a job there and not speak French (I did). You can vote on an English language ballot, get government services in English.

You just gotta put French on your business sign - The Horror...the horror...

Even if this is the 2000's, without the Quebec laws supporting the use of French, Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens. To say otherwise is to ignore history.

[blueblood]

Hogwash yourself

Because Quebec isnt trying to eradicate the English language. Manitoba would not allow anyone an education in French. Quebec is not doing that. Never has.

I lived in Quebec without being able to speak French and in noway was I oppressed. I can't even think of a single Quebec government policy that 'Oppresses' the pitiful Englishman.

You can buy English language newspapers in Quebec, watch English language TV (they do have cable there, ynow), Listen to English language radio (and not just the CBC), you can even get a job there and not speak French (I did). You can vote on an English language ballot, get government services in English.

You just gotta put French on your business sign - The Horror...the horror...

Even if this is the 2000's, without the Quebec laws supporting the use of French, Quebecers would be treated as second class citizens. To say otherwise is to ignore history.

I have been in Quebec and I have been oppressed for speaking English.

My point exactly, you HAVE to put French on a business sign. It's a business owner's sign they can run their sign how they see fit, it's called freedom, the horror...the horror...

Nobody needs laws protecting culture. The first nations don't need laws protecting their culture, and they get to speak whatever they want and have signs in whatever they want. How would French disappear and how would they be treated as second class citizens if the laws didn't exist? If they are as strong as they claim, they don't need protection.

[blueblood]

You can have your sign in Ukranian as long as its also in French. There is no infringement.

What if I want it only in Ukranian? that is infringement.

[Smallc]

What if I want it only in Ukranian? that is infringement.

No, its not. If it was, the law wouldn't be allowed.

[Smallc]

My point exactly, you HAVE to put French on a business sign. It's a business owner's sign they can run their sign how they see fit, it's called freedom, the horror...the horror...

We have other rules that govern workplaces. Should we get rid of those in the name of freedom as well?

[blueblood]

No, its not. If it was, the law wouldn't be allowed.

How is it not infringement? It's my sign and I can put what I want on it, if it's bad for business that's my problem. I shouldn't be forced to put anything I don't want to on my store sign.

Shall Manitoba pass a language law like that where English is Mandatory on signs? The citizens of St. Adolphe and Notre Dame wouldn't be too happy with that...

[blueblood]

We have other rules that govern workplaces. Should we get rid of those in the name of freedom as well?

How would having a business sign in any language other than French hurt anyone? Those other rules that govern the workplace ensure safety and fairness. Next...

[Smallc]

How is it not infringement?

Because it just isn't. You can put any language you like o nthe sign as long as you also include French. You'll live. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Smallc]

How would having a business sign in any language other than French hurt anyone?

How does having to have French on the sign hurt anyone....next.

[blueblood]

Because it just isn't. You can put any language you like o nthe sign as long as you also include French. You'll live. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

That's infringing my freedom of expression, if I wanted to open a business in Quebec it's my fundamental right to have a sign in any way I see fit and if business suffers, that's my fault. The business owner who took Quebec to the UN human rights tribunal didn't think it was a non-issue.

[blueblood]

How does having to have French on the sign hurt anyone....next.

Forcing me into what I can and can't express. Hurts me.

[Smallc]

Well then I guess you'll just have to be hurt, because it isn't going to change.

[blueblood]

Well then I guess you'll just have to be hurt, because it isn't going to change.

So the Quebec gov't is oppressive...

[Smallc]

So the Quebec gov't is oppressive...

In your opinion i suppose it is.

[Mr.Canada]

In your opinion i suppose it is.

Smallc is a genius don';t bother disagreeing with him he is far to brilliant to be spending 10 hours a day here.

[Smallc]

Smallc is a genius don';t bother disagreeing with him he is far to brilliant to be spending 10 hours a day here.

Isn't that a personal attack of some type????

[Mr.Canada]

Isn't that a personal attack of some type????

You're the expert. It's a complement in case you didn't notice. I'm recognizing your supreme intellect. Kudos.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[Hcheh]

They are forcing the superiority of one culture over another culture as a conditon to immigrate to Quebec.

It is not about superiority.. Dude, you if you want to move to Quebec you gotta learn the ways.. Why else would you want to live somewhere if you refuse to live the lifestyle? Anyhow, we could all learn a thing or two from the Quebecois people - unity