How many Green votes?

[kengs333]

The reason all parties have environment plans is not because they are being strong-armed by the Green Party. It is because the environment is one of the top issues of concern to Canadians. The Green Party is merely reacting to the public's concerns, just like the other parties. The Green Party has much less leverage than you perceive.

There is a direct connection between the NDP's advocacy of the environment and the rise of the Green Party. The NDP even went so far as to suggest that the Greens merge with them--a desperate attempt to eliminate a rival. Eventually the Greens will replace the NDP.

The other parties are much too slow in responding to the environmental crisis, and it may already be too late. The other parties only express concern for the issue to win votes, the Greens are sincerely committed to the issue.

[OddSox]

Would you watch a sport if only the top four or five teams ever received coverage, funding, special competative advantages?

We're not discussing sports, or entertainment, or grade-school. Even so, when I watch the NHL, only the top 30 teams are even allowed to play. But I guess some believe that everybody should be able to participate because that's the fair thing to do. Wouldn't want anyone to get hurt feelings.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Political Citizen, how old are you? I ask because I find it hard to believe that you haven't read anything about Canada if you care about it so much. Why do you want everyone else to do your research? Why don't you try googling some answers for yourself instead of wasting everyone's time. Are you that lazy? No wonder our country is going to hell.

I'm an immigrant and was busy working - you know the dirty immigrant jobs that you complain we stole from Canadians. So I hadn't had time to study Canadian history. To someone like you however, with the name of Mr. Canada you should know all this stuff by heart - what research are you talking about?

Our system is based on the British common system. As we were a British Colony still at that point. The National Anthem was the same as in the UK. God Save the Queen. Make sense now?

So the Queen decided we should use ridings? Very democratic, I guess...

Everyone's vote is worth exactly the same, one. In monetary value it is worth $1.75 to the party you cast it.

I guess that's all it means to you...

Like it or not Nuclear power is by far the cleanest energy to produce. Much cleaner than using fossil fuels like coal. It produces nearly zero emissions into the environment. It produces steam. Is it perfect? No, but it's the best solution we have so far. We don't have any other viable options to produce the amount of power generated from 1 Nuclear power station.

Maybe. But we already have technologies that would allow to GREATLY REDUCE energy consumption.

Let's start by closing the coal-burning plants first. Then we can discuss nuclear.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Where did you learn this drivel - state-sponsored nursery school? Of course there has to be winners and losers...

Your attempt to insult me certainly denotes you as the latter...

[PoliticalCitizen]

And of course every vote has the same value, the value of 1.

I wonder if the Greens could understand democracy better they might have a better chance of not being laughed at....

I guess moving all people that have the same political opinion into 1 riding just so they could get their candidate elected would make perfect sense to you.

Edited October 24, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[M.Dancer]

I guess moving all people that have the same political opinion into 1 riding just so they could get their candidate elected would make perfect sense to you.

Not as much as convincing the majority of the people in one riding to have a similar opinion. If you can't convince a majority, it speaks volumes of the opinion..

[M.Dancer]

In some cases that means that 60-70% of people who vote receive no representation.

Amazingly every riding has a representitive, ergo, you are wrong yet again.

[OddSox]

Your attempt to insult me certainly denotes you as the latter...

Gee, I hope your feelings weren't hurt. I'll let you win next time, or would that be impolitic of me?

[kengs333]

We're not discussing sports, or entertainment, or grade-school. Even so, when I watch the NHL, only the top 30 teams are even allowed to play. But I guess some believe that everybody should be able to participate because that's the fair thing to do. Wouldn't want anyone to get hurt feelings.

It's usually referred to as an analogy...

Well, the NHL admits a certain number of teams into the league, and Elections Canada has admitted a certain number of parties into federal politics. The difference is that the electoral system is designed to only allow three or four major parties to succeed. Would you want to watch a hockey game where the one team had a goal the size of a soccer goal and the other just slightly large than the size of a puck? Where three or four teams had the latter net, the rest the former?

[madmax]

Let's start by closing the coal-burning plants first. Then we can discuss nuclear.

Federal Green Party candidate Frank Nightingale has come out in favour of keeping the coal-fired generating plant in Nanticoke, pegged by many environmentalists as one of North America's worst polluters.

I met Frank, once in Dundas, with this person "Stephana Johnston" who were both promoting keeping the coal fired generating plant in nanticoke open. They used the anti-nuclear argument to promote coal.

WHile the argument is accurate.

Here is the spin

Nuclear energy, he said, is not as clean, safe, and cost-efficient as it has been promoted. Nuclear costs up to 12 cents per kilowatt hour. That's three times the cost of Nanticoke," he told a group gathered in a meeting room at Hambleton Hall yesterday afternoon. Technological advances could make nuclear "an option" one day, he said, "but we have not seen them yet."

His address also included his vision of Haldimand-Norfolk developing a "green economy" in which manufacturers associated with renewable energy locate here and empty tobacco fields are filled with crops burned in Nanticoke's furnaces.

In an interview, Nightingale noted that if Nanticoke was closed, the area would be hurt with the loss of 600 jobs and the property taxes the plant pays. The Ontario government has said it will close all the province's coal-fired plants by 2014 in an effort to clean up the environment.

The GP wants to tax pollution vs end it. Could you imagine, they moved the taxes to the coal fired generated plant as a source of FEDERAL revenue, and then the Ontario Liberals close it down?

Infact this was the irony between the Federal Liberal Policy in adopting the GP platform. It was at complete odds with its Provincial Cousins.

Of course the Provincial GP are of the same opinion as the Provincial Liberals.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Not as much as convincing the majority of the people in one riding to have a similar opinion. If you can't convince a majority, it speaks volumes of the opinion..

Volumes of the opinion that have no reflection in the Parliament.

I don't want my unpopular party to rule. I want it to be in and represented, even SOMEHOW (with the MMP Greens would still have gotten 0 FPTP seats and only 7% of the PR seats).

[PoliticalCitizen]

Federal Green Party candidate Frank Nightingale has come out in favour of keeping the coal-fired generating plant in Nanticoke, pegged by many environmentalists as one of North America's worst polluters.

I met Frank, once in Dundas, with this person "Stephana Johnston" who were both promoting keeping the coal fired generating plant in nanticoke open. They used the anti-nuclear argument to promote coal.

WHile the argument is accurate.

Here is the spin

The GP wants to tax pollution vs end it. Could you imagine, they moved the taxes to the coal fired generated plant as a source of FEDERAL revenue, and then the Ontario Liberals close it down?

Infact this was the irony between the Federal Liberal Policy in adopting the GP platform. It was at complete odds with its Provincial Cousins.

Of course the Provincial GP are of the same opinion as the Provincial Liberals.

Just because I support the Green Party doesn't mean I agree with every single thing they say and do.

I chose GP as the best of what we have (for me, of course).

I have my own views, some of which I shared with my Green candidate.

Burning coal is an insult to the last 200 years of tecnological evolution, its use should have ended with the second millenia.

Oil should be next one out the door, REGARDLESS of whehter CO2 is causing global warming or not.

Cars should be phased out next, with the urban architecture returning to human-centric from car-centric.

[madmax]

Just because I support the Green Party doesn't mean I agree with every single thing they say and do.

Its just a political party. I doubt that any person on these forums, has blind support for their party of choice. Well, I think there is one fanatical, delusional poster for the time being, but that will pass.

[M.Dancer]

I don't want my unpopular party to rule. I want it to be in and represented, even SOMEHOW (with the MMP Greens would still have gotten 0 FPTP seats and only 7% of the PR seats).

MMR went the vote....it was soundly defeated and cast into the dustbin of hostory.

I laugh to myself when one of the sore losers whine about having no representation ..if we had PR, we would have no ridings. If we had no ridings we would have no MPs representing ridings. Without MPs representing ridings no one is directly represented. What we would have would be delegates representing their party, local representation be damned....

Greeners should remember the Maxim of Tip O'Neil.

We all should before embracing the least of democratic systems, PR. Local concerns will have no priority for parties that are only interested in the national vote....remember that.

[M.Dancer]

I don't want my unpopular party to rule.

93% or more agree with you.

[madmax]

Cars should be phased out next

banning cars.

7% vote. No seats.

I can't figure this out.

[madmax]

93% or more agree with you.

Nothing gets past you

But......you don't drive much. And I am interested in your low mileage car. Perhaps there is some common ground on the car ban?

[OddSox]

It's usually referred to as an analogy...

Well, the NHL admits a certain number of teams into the league, and Elections Canada has admitted a certain number of parties into federal politics. The difference is that the electoral system is designed to only allow three or four major parties to succeed. Would you want to watch a hockey game where the one team had a goal the size of a soccer goal and the other just slightly large than the size of a puck? Where three or four teams had the latter net, the rest the former?

You're serious aren't you? How does that have anything at all to do with our political system?

In terms of an analogy - how about: The NHL allows a certain number of teams. They each compete using similar rules and regulations. Eventually, some teams do better than others and they are allowed to move on to the playoffs. Some teams get left behind because, well, they weren't good enough. Eventually, someone actually wins because they had the best team.

It's a stretch I know, but you started it.

[M.Dancer]

Nothing gets past you

But......you don't drive much. And I am interested in your low mileage car. Perhaps there is some common ground on the car ban?

Drive much? I don't drive at all.....But I do want a carbon frame bike.

[kengs333]

You're serious aren't you? How does that have anything at all to do with our political system?

In terms of an analogy - how about: The NHL allows a certain number of teams. They each compete using similar rules and regulations. Eventually, some teams do better than others and they are allowed to move on to the playoffs. Some teams get left behind because, well, they weren't good enough. Eventually, someone actually wins because they had the best team.

It's a stretch I know, but you started it.

It's not a valid argument because there is no "playoffs" in the Canadian electoral system. All parties that are approved by Elections Canada are involved in a given election, but the media determines which ones are "legitmate".

[OddSox]

It's not a valid argument because there is no "playoffs" in the Canadian electoral system. All parties that are approved by Elections Canada are involved in a given election, but the media determines which ones are "legitmate".

I know it wasn't a valid analogy - I said so. But the fact is that our political system is a level playing field and every party gets the same opportunity. IMO the Green Party did not do anything to deserve what recognition they did get (from the media or anyone) and the resulting vote confirms that. At least 9 out of 10 voters does not consider the Green Party to be a viable alternative. End of story.

AS long as they continue to be a one-issue party they will not get any recognition, or respect. Sorry, but that's the truth - there are always winners and losers.

[jbg]

Political Citizen, how old are you? I ask because I find it hard to believe that you haven't read anything about Canada if you care about it so much. Why do you want everyone else to do your research? Why don't you try googling some answers for yourself instead of wasting everyone's time. Are you that lazy? No wonder our country is going to hell.

It's not his fault.

I met two teachers from Peterborough, ON at a Great Big Sea concert in New York. The had no idea what happened at the Plains of Abraham or even who Montcalm and Wolfe were. It took me, a Yank who knows little about you country to explain it. It is regarded as Americasn history too for obvious reasons so it was taught in our schools, so I know about it despite overall lack of knowledge. about Canada.

[jbg]

Amazingly every riding has a representitive, ergo, you are wrong yet again.

Right now that's true but there were three without representation for a period pror to October 14, 2008. Those were the ridings for which bi-elections were scheduled.

[OddSox]

It's not his fault.

I met two teachers from Peterborough, ON at a Great Big Sea concert in New York. The had no idea what happened at the Plains of Abraham or even who Montcalm and Wolfe were. It took me, a Yank who knows little about you country to explain it. It is regarded as Americasn history too for obvious reasons so it was taught in our schools, so I know about it despite overall lack of knowledge. about Canada.

Education in this province (Ontario) has been dysfunctional for years. Being outdone by an American - shameful. However, ignorance really should not be an excuse. Despite systemic imperfections, many millions of young people have still managed to exceed expectations and make us all proud, regardless of country.

[cybercoma]

Education is only pathetic in Canada because we're wasting our time on a bilingual pipe-dream that forces kids to learn French (or English in Quebec?) when they could be taking other classes.

Edited October 25, 2008 by cybercoma