"Prime Minister Dion Loses Something In Translation"

[betsy]

And what do you have to say about all those leftists who are encouraging strategic voting to defeat the Conservatives? And what about the 2 Green candidates in Quebec urging their supporters to vote Liberal? Seems to me their attachment to their values is tenuous and negotiable.

You're so right. I forgot about that sleazy deal between the two.

[capricorn]

Betsy, of course the Liberals will not come right out and admit they are losing the election. But as we get closer to voting day (probably Sunday), expect Dion to strike a deal with Elizabeth May. The deal being that she instruct her supporters to vote Liberal to stop Harper in exchange for a high ranking government job should he be elected.

ps: There's no way May will win Central Nova so he can't promise her a cabinet post.

[independent]

Betsy, of course the Liberals will not come right out and admit they are losing the election. But as we get closer to voting day (probably Sunday), expect Dion to strike a deal with Elizabeth May. The deal being that she instruct her supporters to vote Liberal to stop Harper in exchange for a high ranking government job should he be elected.

ps: There's no way May will win Central Nova so he can't promise her a cabinet post.

What is your definition of winning. Another Minority government for Harper. A Majority government for Harper.

The chances of the Liberals getting a majority government are slim with the left split three ways. A win at this point for the Liberals is keeping Harper from getting a majority government. Every time that Harper slams Dion or Dion messes up(what ever you prefer) the more votes go to the NDP.

The only way that Liberals get a majority is by HARPER angering voters in Quebec and Ontario.

[CrazeeEddie]

You are not selling your values.....unless your values does not put the welfare of our economy and the future of our children above a political party.

I personally don't believe that Harper or the CPC have my children's best interests at heart, and disagree with many CPC beliefs. So yes, it would be selling out. I'm also not thoroughly convinced (read, totally unconvinced) that Harper is the saviour for our economy you seem to think he is.

Without a doubt, yes.

Dion is not a leader at all. Have you noticed how the Liberal Party had eased his leadership out of the campaign picture? They have spinned it so that now, they're promoting a "team." They're making it so that a team is supposed to be better at running the country. They don't even have a real team! Their so-called team is embroiled in vicious in-fighting. Martin's new book exposed just that. How they can campaign and say they are a team is the height of all bald-face lies. Hah! Too many cooks in the kitchen by cooks who don't even agree! Knives are put to good use in the Liberal Team's kitchen

I agree, I don't think Dion is a great leader. However, I do think the Liberal Party as a whole does a much better job with my country. And yes, it IS a team effort by the way. Either way, Harper is not the only alternative to Dion.

I'm not going into a tit-for-tat with Conservative's income trust and Liberal's GST for starters. We're not naive are we?

Which politician did not break a promise?

Harper? Oh yeah, we can trust him. He never goes back on his word

PS- Dion hasn't.... last I checked, he's never been the PM, so he couldn't have....

Btw, did you know that Dion is already saying that he might have to break the promise of childcare spaces and other billion dollar perks he'd been doling out these past few weeks. And he's not even elected yet!

But mind you, it's still full-steam ahead for his Carbon Tax Plan. I wonder if he'll break his promise about giving some of that money back.

So what you're saying is, no matter Liberal or Conservative, we're screwed? Good thing I can vote Green, NDP, Marijuana Party, Canadian Action Party, etc eh?

Who is the best man to lead us through this time of uncertainty. That's the question we all have a grave responsibility to answer to the best of our ability.

I have a feeling our answers would differ here. Why should I believe Harper is, because you say so?

You're complaining now???? Boy, wait til you get Dion or Layton. Plus simultaneous with what's happening to the global economy. You haven't seen nothing yet.

Yup, because you can tell the future. Scare tactics aren't going to work here. Our economy is NOT THAT STRONG, and is very connected to the US. Do you honestly believe that if the US Economy fails, Harper will pull ours out of the fire? Now who's being naive.

He may've changed his minds a gazillion times

LOL, is that what we call it now..... I call it lying personally.

but all I see is the fact that our banks are not failing like the USA

Yet...

, our economy is the strongest economy in the G8

Thanks in large part to the Liberals and Mr Paul Martin...

, and in September we've created about 100,000 new jobs.

Hard facts that translate into confidence and security.

Outside of Alberta, how many? I know here in Ontario, jobs are FLYING OUT THE WINDOW. Oh but wait, I can still work at McDonald's, or a call center, for $9 an hour.

He is very capable. And most importantly, he is proven.

Thus far, what you've provided me is your opinion of what he COULD do. What I have seen is someone who hides from accountability and the people, gives money to those who need it least, still believes that trickle down economy works, cares very little about a province that houses nearly 40% of the population of this country, has done nothing to stem the tide of decent paying jobs leaving, and being replaced with minimum wage employment opportunities, lies about Senate positions, bribes officials after complaining when another party does it, complains about dirty tactics while engaging in them himself..... need I go on?

I am un-wavering in my support for Harper.

May I ask you: Are you voting for Dion? If yes, please explain why.

And you are entitled to that... however, I am unwavering in my support of anyone but him. And no, I am not voting for Dion. At the start of the election, I was unclear, however, I think it's fairly clear by now where I stand.

Edited October 11, 2008 by CrazeeEddie

[CrazeeEddie]

Betsy, of course the Liberals will not come right out and admit they are losing the election. But as we get closer to voting day (probably Sunday), expect Dion to strike a deal with Elizabeth May. The deal being that she instruct her supporters to vote Liberal to stop Harper in exchange for a high ranking government job should he be elected.

ps: There's no way May will win Central Nova so he can't promise her a cabinet post.

You say 'losing' as if it was a clear cut majority. It seems to me that the polls indicate more and more that this election could be closer than ever. And while I do not count myself among them, I think you will see many Ontarians threatening to vote NDP or CPC switch back to their red shirts come Tuesday night. The fact is, at least amongst those I have spoken with (which is many), many in Ontario do not feel that the CPC represents them at all..

[CrazeeEddie]

What is your definition of winning. Another Minority government for Harper. A Majority government for Harper.

The chances of the Liberals getting a majority government are slim with the left split three ways. A win at this point for the Liberals is keeping Harper from getting a majority government. Every time that Harper slams Dion or Dion messes up(what ever you prefer) the more votes go to the NDP.

The only way that Liberals get a majority is by HARPER angering voters in Quebec and Ontario.

Nobody is getting a majority. However, this split on the left needs to be repaired, and soon. A united left would spell the end of Harper.

[CrazeeEddie]

It seems that the left is pretty concerned about this issue with all of the shrill responses.

At any rate, here's the double standard moment of the week. Back when Harper was learning French, the LPC characterized him as a Albertan tongue tied flatlander who's French level was unacceptable to be PM. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and their boy Dion can't speak very good English, they feign outrage that anyone would attack someone who is disabled. Hypocrites.

First off, I agree with you. Dion's english issues are fair game. However, for a party trying to gain a foothold in Quebec, just doesn't seem smart.

Second, what exactly was Harper's disability?

[myata]

OK, let's do some analysis of relation public speaking ability - achievement in public policy.

First, there's this president, let's name him Mr GWB. He's quite famous for many a perl in his public appearances in his native (sic) English. He's also knows as one of the best, or one of the worst presidents in the recent history. Let's briefly outline his public policy achievements:

On the ney side:

- sending troops on flimsy and/or non existing grounds thousands miles across the planet to create or fight in other people's conflicts;

- bungling response to natural catastrophe back home;

- further deregulating industry, eventually leading to one of the worst financial crisis in the recent time;

- further reducing taxes for the rich, resulting in one of the highest disparities of income anywhere on the planet

On the yeigh side:

- sending troops on flimsy and/or non existing grounds thousands miles across the planet to create or fight in other people's conflicts (i.e protecting democracy everywhere and around the clock);

- being cute (in a certain way)

We'll reserve judgment on this case.

Then there's that prime minister, let's call him Mr Trudeau, who was known as a brilliant speaker and also made significant contributions into public policy, of which best known being establishing the Charter of Rights.

Then there's another prime minister, Mr Chretien, who wasn't known as a brilliant speaker, but nontheless made significant contributions to public policy, such as eliminating country's budget deficit, or keeping the country together at the times of separatism crisis.

Finally, there's also that prime minister, let's call him Mr. H. who's made serious promises on agendas important to many Canadians, such as: the environment; public health care; openness and transparency of the government; fighting crime; and more. Mr H. isn't known as a bad speaker, nor is he known as a brilliant one. So - so. He also hasn't made any significant contributions to the public policies (I count reduction of GST as a worthy feat, but far short of anything that could have been achieved with the Parliament very sympathetic to environmental and social agendas).

And now it's time to round up: there seems to be no apparent correlation between public speaking ability and positive contribution to public policy: not so great public speakers (Mr Chretien, Mr GWB??) can be great contributors to public policies; on the other hand, not so great public speakers (Mr GWB?) could also be the worst contributors to public policies; and finally, so-so public speakers (Mr H.) can also be so-so performers in the policy achievement.

Here you go. While good public speaking ability in a leader is desirable (at least in the native language), it's not an indicator of achievement in the public policy he/she would make.

[capricorn]

The chances of the Liberals getting a majority government are slim with the left split three ways.

A majority for the Liberals is a non starter. It's time the left wakes up and gets its act together. But the Liberals are so full of themselves they can't see the forest for the trees. Keep the left divided and continue whining about under representation in government.

A win at this point for the Liberals is keeping Harper from getting a majority government.

A win by Harper is an indirect win for the Liberals because the Liberals could finally get rid of that loser Dion that has dragged them down deeper than they already were.

Every time that Harper slams Dion or Dion messes up(what ever you prefer) the more votes go to the NDP.

Every time Dion messes up, Liberal support drifts to the NDP. Keep that left divided.

The only way that Liberals get a majority is by HARPER angering voters in Quebec and Ontario.

A Liberal majority is not in the cards.

[myata]

A majority for the Liberals is a non starter. It's time the left wakes up and gets its act together. But the Liberals are so full of themselves they can't see the forest for the trees. Keep the left divided and continue whining about under representation in government.

...

Liberal majority is not in the cards.

I agree with most of that assessment. Dion is not a strong charismatic leader to unite progressive vote, and Liberals can only dream of a majority at this point in their history.

However, rather than see it as a problem, I'd like to welcome this state of affairs as an opportunity for a broad democratic change in the country. A Liberal majority government, if and when it's elected, will follow its own agenda, and may not be all that inclined to consider the views of the other parties representing progressive electorate. Electing a coalition where each party is in minority, would be greatly more beneficial for the dialog and sharing of ideas. Of which two agendas are crucial:

- one is reconciling the economy and the environment. Not as a dogma, and not only for environment's own sake (important as it is for our posterity), but most importantly, for future well being of this country. The oil bonanza won't last forever (may not even last that long), and when all is over, everybody else had worked hard to adjust their economies, lifestyles, etc to the realities of carbon tight future, while we were busy reaping benefits (and spending them) guess who would be hardest hit. Don't guess though, just look at those old fisheries towns, coal mining towns, forestry towns, etc with 30% of population on employment assistance. Except Ontario and Quebec can't go on employment assistance, that would be a catastrophe, and probably would spell the end of the country as we know it. The time to start the change (not to force it, nor rush it - but to start, for serious and in earnest) is now, and Harper won't do it because he doesn't believe the problem exists, and he loaths to do anything he doesn't believe in.

- electoral reform: to make elections more democratic; to add meaning to the choice; there must be a change in our electoral system that will allow some form of representation for the "lost vote". This is almost impossible, near suicidal task for any majority government. It can only be accomplished by a broad democratic coalition for progress.

So, we can vote for progress, which isn't synonimous with voting for Dion, or the Liberals, and make change happen. Supporting Harper would take us away from at least the second goal, even if eventually leading to another Liberal majority.

[cybercoma]

He has broken one promise after another.

Which ones?

[Argus]

OK, let's do some analysis of relation public speaking ability - achievement in public policy.

It's always amusing how many people on the left will poo-poo the need for adequate English language skills in a foreigner or francophone, but be aghast at the thought of an anglophone on top who doesn't speak French.

Yes, technically you can do an adequate job of prime minister without knowing ANY English or French. You can make all the right decisions by yourself in a small room, and have them translated to your cabinet and MPs and the public. But is that desirable? Well, no.

We, as a society, have, without even thinking about it, made a deal that all our PMs have to be able to communicate adequately in French for the sake of the 20% of Canadians for whom that is a primary language. I think it was understood that the reverse is true. But apparently not. Some people think you can lead even while being unable to speak to your followers.

It is clear Dion can read English, but is unable to carry on an intelligent conversation of any depth in this language. It is also clear that the reason is he hasn't put in any effort to learn the language. English is much easier for a Francophone to learn than the reverse, yet Harper has clearly put in a lot of effort into improving his French, and succeeded. Dion has just as clearly put in NO effort into improving his English. I'm reminded of Chretien's cabinet. A new minister was named from Quebec. I can't recall his name at the moment, but I believe it was to Defense. But that's really not relevant. He was very French, and the first thing he did was insist that all his correspondence be in French, and that all meetings be conducted in French. The minister's office became a haven of French where no English word was ever spoken. Bilingualism is necessary to be a clerk, you see, or a manager, but not to be a minister. Of course, the minister WAS bilingual, but he didn't like using English, and so he avoided it wherever possible. Dion appears to have been that sort of minister. Now, 12 years later, he still is fumbling and bumbling in his horrid English, and yet no one is supposed to judge him poorly for it. Sorry, but I do.