John Diefenbaker

[bush_cheney2004]

....Of course, this being Canada we'd likely still be flying them today, like our Sea King helicopters.

I think this comment is most telling, as Canadian Sea Kings also came from elsewhere. And that's really the bottom line....when it came to the AVRo Arrow, the job just didn't get done.

American aircraft development is also littered with busted dreams and failed programs, but a nation's pride should not rest on one aircraft as poster child.

[Hcheh]

......... but a nation's pride should not rest on one aircraft as poster child.

Good point

[M.Dancer]

I think this comment is most telling, as Canadian Sea Kings also came from elsewhere. And that's really the bottom line....when it came to the AVRo Arrow, the job just didn't get done.

American aircraft development is also littered with busted dreams and failed programs, but a nation's pride should not rest on one aircraft as poster child.

That's the truth.....there have been literaly 100s of aerospace projects that were canceled ....no one has created a national myth over the Spruce Goose.

[Wild Bill]

That's the truth.....there have been literaly 100s of aerospace projects that were canceled ....no one has created a national myth over the Spruce Goose.

The loss of the Goose wasn't the cause of the total erasure of a leading edge aerospace manufacturing industry, with all those thousands of jobs.

Perhaps the NEP was just retributive justice to the West for what they had done to Ontario. Dief actually hurt Ontario harder and deeper than the NEP ever did to Alberta.

[guyser]

Sure shows ho much you know about the heritage of the NOW NDP.

Enough to know that what you posted was wrong.

[TCCK]

Enough to know that what you posted was wrong.

Nope , you will not find it on the web either. You have to goto the National Library in Ottawa to read the truth about the NDP parties history. I find it strangly suspicious you can not find a trace of info of it on the web but it is in hard book form there in the National library.

[bush_cheney2004]

The loss of the Goose wasn't the cause of the total erasure of a leading edge aerospace manufacturing industry, with all those thousands of jobs.

Perhaps, but it was not a Canadian founded company at all, having been spawned from Victory Aircraft and British design/manufacturing efforts during WW2, just like de Havilland Canada.

Economic loss...certainly...but national pride....unjustified.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What is the source of national pride? If the answer is some sort of sense of self protection capability then our national pride was indeed injured was it not? Consider just how much our defense forces require and what the size of that expenditure is. Now those dollars leave the national economy and as a result we suffer an economic injury as well. Yet even that ignores the change to our national technological capabilites.

The harm was immense.

[bush_cheney2004]

What is the source of national pride? If the answer is some sort of sense of self protection capability then our national pride was indeed injured was it not? Consider just how much our defense forces require and what the size of that expenditure is. Now those dollars leave the national economy and as a result we suffer an economic injury as well. Yet even that ignores the change to our national technological capabilites.

The harm was immense.

Ergo...there was no "national pride" stemming from such capabilities before the British set up shop either?

[manwithnoname]

Bad! Cancelling the Arrow was enough!

It was a bonehead, poorly thought out move that immediately wiped out a world class aerospace industry and gave virtually all our rocket scientists to the Americans, where they helped to put a man on the moon.

That was when we became a third class country, starting the slide to where we are a branch plant economy that is strongest in natural resources, competing with every other third world country with little or no advanced manufacturing.

Thanks to Dief, Canada lost much of its brains. We became a developmentally challenged nation that perpetually asks to be coddled. The Americans have to defend us and the Chinese own our economy.

Thanks for nothing, Dief! You may have had a big heart but we would be a far richer nation if you had of had a bit more intelligence and vision.

Don't get me wrong I am obviously not a Conservative fan but he did some good for Canada socially and at least was moving forward on his promise to the Natives I am surprised to see:

# Appointed Ellen Fairclough first woman Cabinet minister

# Canadian Bill of Rights 1958

# Appointed James Gladstone Canada's first Aboriginal senator 1958

# Franchise extended to all Aboriginal peoples, 1960

# Royal Commission on Health Services 1961

# Agricultural Rehabilitation and Development Act 1961

# Created the National Productivity Council (Economic Council of Canada) 1963

He at least did not walk all over the disadvantaged groups and in fact was a leader in women emancipation, Our Bill of rights, health and economy was safe in those days as this was mostly very arable land, but had the crops been ruined, Canadian had very little revenue in those days, but the cost of living was also very modest, and had a crash happened he would have been like Harper, sinking with the ship. That is the not so Conservative way they apply to the economy, putting all your eggs in the same baskets you are likely to break some and even all of them.

Harper only income for Canada is the Oil and the Banks and we are getting gouged at the Bank and now I hear Canadian are deny the percentage every other country poorer than us (like the USA, ha ha), while he now will see our soldiers as a "cost" and he 'clearly' did not see what kind of cost this was because he is careless, so I worry about our troops, he might cut their funds while over there. I hope nobody bought his promises to the poor and low-income people these were some of the first cuts he made, in 2006. $2 Billion worth of cuts with no reason but being mean.

Diefenbaker

Edited October 10, 2008 by manwithnoname

[manwithnoname]

Yes as a matter of fact, I have read books about him.. By unpopularity, I meant by the average Canadians or the ones who sit around and post on forums. I have looked around that there has been some hate for him because of his Avro Arrow cancellation. I know that JFK and Diefenbaker weren't on the best terms. Concerning the whole anti American sentiment, I think it was Diefenbaker who said, " I am not anti-American, I am just pro-Canadian".

My dad, an ex-Navy Volunteer during WWII, used to say he was "a tough nut but a good man for Canada", I very much respected his opinion on most things. and I believe he was a very fair judge of character. Am I right?

[Hcheh]

Don't get me wrong I am obviously not a Conservative fan but he did some good for Canada socially and at least was moving forward on his promise to the Natives I am surprised to see:

# Appointed Ellen Fairclough first woman Cabinet minister

# Canadian Bill of Rights 1958

# Appointed James Gladstone Canada's first Aboriginal senator 1958

# Franchise extended to all Aboriginal peoples, 1960

# Royal Commission on Health Services 1961

# Agricultural Rehabilitation and Development Act 1961

# Created the National Productivity Council (Economic Council of Canada) 1963

He at least did not walk all over the disadvantaged groups and in fact was a leader in women emancipation, Our Bill of rights, health and economy was safe in those days as this was mostly very arable land, but had the crops been ruined, Canadian had very little revenue in those days, but the cost of living was also very modest, and had a crash happened he would have been like Harper, sinking with the ship. That is the not so Conservative way they apply to the economy, putting all your eggs in the same baskets you are likely to break some and even all of them.

Harper only income for Canada is the Oil and the Banks and we are getting gouged at the Bank and now I hear Canadian are deny the percentage every other country poorer than us (like the USA, ha ha), while he now will see our soldiers as a "cost" and he 'clearly' did not see what kind of cost this was because he is careless, so I worry about our troops, he might cut their funds while over there. I hope nobody bought his promises to the poor and low-income people these were some of the first cuts he made, in 2006. $2 Billion worth of cuts with no reason but being mean.

Diefenbaker

My dad, an ex-Navy Volunteer during WWII, used to say he was "a tough nut but a good man for Canada", I very much respected his opinion on most things. and I believe he was a very fair judge of character. Am I right?

Yes, I agree with you. As I said in my first post, he may not have been the best prime minister... However, who can doubt his social integrity and passion for Canada?