Harper's plagiarized 2003 Iraq speech

[jdobbin]

Irony alert.....That will have to wait until after the elections, and he'll have to use a "nom de plume" to mask his identity. Man those Conservatives are underhanded.....Irony off.

Maybe he will be sent to the Senate like Fortier again.

[Canadian Blue]

Sorry. Not true.

I didn't even include defence or aboriginal affairs in the overspending.

How much overspending was their exactly once you take away transfer payments, military spending, and increased funding for law enforcement.

All this proves to us is that the Liberals are great at underfunding the RCMP, CSIS, the CBSA, and CSIS, while ensuring Avi Lewis and Tal Bachman get money to go to exotic countries.

Citation for this despise?

Probably your continued goading on about it, and then criticizing any politician who morally supports the coalition and hopes a secular democracy prevails in Iraq.

This is the typical Tory rebuttal that Liberals support terrorism and that Iraq was responsible for September 11.

I never stated that Iraq was responsible for September 11, I simply stated that Liberals often despise America so much that they mistakenly believe America is worse than Saddam Hussein. But I wouldn't be surprised if some people on the left in this forum would openly hope that Kadhr gets a medal upon his return to Canada for killing an American medic.

[Slim MacSquinty]

This is the dirtiest ploy yet by the Liberals, it certainly twists the facts as the coincident phrases among political speeches bears no comparison to plagiarism of a university paper. Their real motivation was to direct the electorates attention away from their incoherent campaign to an out of context five year old speech.

Desperate times call for deparate measures, and the true Liberal colours come out. No suprise it came from Rae, who has a long displayed a lack of good judgement.

Very interesting watching the various mud being slung by the Liberals, throwing in all directions hoping some will stick, I hope people look for the muddy hands.

[Canadian Blue]

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...plagiarism.aspx

Stephane Dion should immediately be expelled for copying Suzuki's green introduction word for word.

[jdobbin]

How much overspending was their exactly once you take away transfer payments, military spending, and increased funding for law enforcement.

Military spending was never included. Transfer payments are a large percentage. That is something else that the Tories promised not to expand. Law enforcement is a small percentage.

All this proves to us is that the Liberals are great at underfunding the RCMP, CSIS, the CBSA, and CSIS, while ensuring Avi Lewis and Tal Bachman get money to go to exotic countries.

That represents a small percentage of Tory spending. Forgotten the rail service in Flaherty's riding? Adding $600 million to Via Rail that the Liberals cancelled? Re-opening a military college in Quebec that the Liberals closed.

The Tories are not just spending on your favourite things. They have increased arts funding in the double digits. Then they cut for political reasons rather than made cross the board cuts.

Probably your continued goading on about it, and then criticizing any politician who morally supports the coalition and hopes a secular democracy prevails in Iraq.

This is a cite? Don't think I have mentioned anything about me despising anything. I said Harper would have had Canada in Ira and Tory supporters continue to deny it.

I never stated that Iraq was responsible for September 11, I simply stated that Liberals often despise America so much that they mistakenly believe America is worse than Saddam Hussein. But I wouldn't be surprised if some people on the left in this forum would openly hope that Kadhr gets a medal upon his return to Canada for killing an American medic.

And I asked for a cite since I have not seen that from anyone here who is a Liberal. Which Liberals are you referring to who have said they despise the U.S.? Are you going back several years or is this something recent?

Which Liberal would say that they would reward Khadr? Who? Citation. I can't believe the trolling that sentence reveals.

It is just another example of ugly the Tories can get.

Edited October 1, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

This is the dirtiest ploy yet by the Liberals, it certainly twists the facts as the coincident phrases among political speeches bears no comparison to plagiarism of a university paper.

It is not a coincidence. It is admitted plagiarism.

[YEGmann]

It is not a coincidence. It is admitted plagiarism.

Yes, five sentences out of 97.

[Slim MacSquinty]

It's irrelevant, there was no copyright, nor was Harper presenting this as his doctoral thesis. Therefore there is nothing wrong with using verbage which is relevant to the topic. This is a ploy by the Liberals to remind people of the speech which now can be used out of context as its five years old and much knowlege has been gained since then.

Let hopes someone goes back and gets some good quotes from Mr. Rae, he's got lots of skeletons in his closet, rememder Rae days? He's changed his tune so many times he doesn't know if he's got spots or stripes. He's a boat without an oar or a tiller.

[Canadian Blue]

This is a cite? Don't think I have mentioned anything about me despising anything. I said Harper would have had Canada in Ira and Tory supporters continue to deny it.

Didn't Carrolyn Bennett say the American's were behaving in a manner similar to the Japanese at Pearl Harbor.

And I asked for a cite since I have not seen that from anyone here who is a Liberal. Which Liberals are you referring to who have said they despise the U.S.? Are you going back several years or is this something recent?

No, no, you simply stated that any politicians who would morally support the US was in bed with Bush. Whereas I stated that their was nothing wrong with hoping that once the invasion began that those of us in Canada would hope America the best since America is better than Iraq.

Who was in bed with Bush.

Which Liberal would say that they would reward Khadr? Who? Citation. I can't believe the trolling that sentence reveals.

I retract my statement. The Liberal Party is openly supportive of the Tamil Tigers being taken off the Terror List, and would allow the organization which has been known to partake in genocide, suicide bombing, using child soldiers, and rape, can raise money in Canada.

http://www.durdesh.net/news/Article248.html

Edited October 1, 2008 by Canadian Blue

[jdobbin]

Yes, five sentences out of 97.

Yup. Harper took his cues from Australia and had he been PM, he would have taken Canada into Iraq.

We can't trust his judgment.

[jdobbin]

It's irrelevant, there was no copyright, nor was Harper presenting this as his doctoral thesis. Therefore there is nothing wrong with using verbage which is relevant to the topic. This is a ploy by the Liberals to remind people of the speech which now can be used out of context as its five years old and much knowlege has been gained since then.

The Tories certainly think it is irrelevant.

[jdobbin]

Didn't Carrolyn Bennett say the American's were behaving in a manner similar to the Japanese at Pearl Harbor.

Where did she say she despised anything?

No, no, you simply stated that any politicians who would morally support the US was in bed with Bush. Whereas I stated that their was nothing wrong with hoping that once the invasion began that those of us in Canada would hope America the best since America is better than Iraq.

I didn't say anything about moral support. The Liberals gave moral support to the U.S. in regards to Iraq. They just weren't going to be involved in the war. Harper would have taken Canada to war/

I retract my statement. The Liberal Party is openly supportive of the Tamil Tigers being taken off the Terror List, and would allow the organization which has been known to partake in genocide, suicide bombing, using child soldiers, and rape, can raise money in Canada.

And the Harper Tories had a candidate who was Tamil in the last election who was shocked and surprised when the Tamil youth organization was listed as a terrorist organization.

[Canadian Blue]

Yup. Harper took his cues from Australia and had he been PM, he would have taken Canada into Iraq.

As stated before, we likely couldn't have because the Canadian military was chronically underfunded.

We can't trust his judgment.

Refresh my memory but didn't Jean Chretien intervene for a certain man by the name of Khadr in 1996.

[peter_puck]

This is the dirtiest ploy yet by the Liberals, it certainly twists the facts as the coincident phrases among political speeches bears no comparison to plagiarism of a university paper.

Did you even watch the comparison.....it was brutal

[Canadian Blue]

Where did she say she despised anything?

Yes, I can definitely see how saying that America is similar to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is a valid comparison in Liberal eyes.

I didn't say anything about moral support. The Liberals gave moral support to the U.S. in regards to Iraq.

No they didn't. Perhaps you can cite this growth of support. It was probably somewhere around the time that the Liberals were talking about how we were all morally superior to those nasty Americans.

And the Harper Tories had a candidate who was Tamil in the last election who was shocked and surprised when the Tamil youth organization was listed as a terrorist organization.

Mind giving a link. However it's good to note that you along with the Liberal Party seem to think that Harper has bad judgement, and then openly state that the Tamil Tigers, an organization which has committed genocide, suicide bombing, terrorism, rape, and assassination, should be allowed to fundraise in Canada.

[YEGmann]

Did you even watch the comparison.....it was brutal

Yes, the Liberals made this clip in order to mislead lazy Canadian population. You cannot tell plagiarism from the two overlaping sound fragments. Few people will take some efforts to compare transcripts. Actually, the Liberals placed a link to the transcripts on their website.

And if you compare the full transcripts, not just selected pieces, you can see that it is not that brutal. Harper's speech is much more extensive than the comparison to the Howard "equivalent" the Liberal provided. This is actually striking - large blank spaces against Harper's paragraphs where should have been Howard's "originals" the Liberals want us to belive Harper plagiarized.

Howard's speech of March 18, 2003 is large too, several pages in the transcript. No doubt, the Harper's speechwriter used it. But a very small portion of it. The Liberals found just 36 sentences with similar subject. It should be noted that Harper used many of these sentences as just a source of information on the Iraqi crisis development that Howard had delivered to the world community. Comparing this to plagiarism is plain ridiculous.

Typically the speechwriter changed Howard's phrases in one way or another, it is not blunt cut-and-paste. However, five (five and a half, to be precise) sentences sleeped in the Harper's speech unchanged.

I do not think a student would be expelled in this situation. This is a typical Liberal elephant made out of a mole hill. I can hardly see any relevance of that speech to the current situation.

Though, I know, this will not change the point of view of the Liberal suppoters. This is for somebody who has some gray substance in the head.

[Murray B.]

Which calls for the following questions:

1) What is the percentage of (in)dependency in Harper's foreign policy?

2) Where will Canada find itself in case of another liberating adventure by one of its close allies / associates, if Harper's government were happen to be in power at the time?

It is interesting that you mention that Mr. Harper agrees 80% with an Australian Liberal party member. This suggests that he is either some sort of secret liberal or that a speechwriter copied the speech.

Canada has never had an independant foreign policy. As far as I know Canada has always followed France when the PM is french and Britain when english. Mr. Chretien was french and so we followed France. If Mr. Harper was in then we might have followed Britain but this is not a sure thing. All we have to go on is political rhetoric. Are you saying that Mr. Harper will always do what what he says he is going to do?

If so, then it is interesting to note that Mr. Harper has not changed our foreign policy by very much. He has NOT deployed troops to Iraq and has left the troops in Afganistan that the Liberals deployed there. Perhaps he will be the first to have a completely independent foreign policy although this will be difficult with a hundred and some countiries in the world.

It seems likely that Canada will probably find itself going along with Britain or France, depending on the PM regardless of his party. A radical change would be going along with the U.S. when Britain and France did not. That still would not be independent but at least it would be a change from the past.

What I don't see Mr. Harper doing is going adversarial if any of our allies are attacked again. He also is unlikely to say "Hope you lose, Eh!" [cover of Macleans] to either Senator Obama or Senator McCain. That would be completely stupid.

[Bryan]

Just got finished watching to Don Newman on Newsworld. He had Bob Rae on as a guest, and he chastisted Rae for making a big deal about this.

Newman actually made some good points that I had not thought of. One of the things he hammered Rae about was that politicians of all parties always have staff speech writers and letter writers. The speech conveys the points that the writer was told to write, but the actual word-for-word sentences and paragraphs are rarely those of the person giving the speech.

Rae didn't see it coming, I'm sure he thought the CBC would happily cheerlead along on his witchhunt.

[Smallc]

Just got finished watching to Don Newman on Newsworld. He had Bob Rae on as a guest, and he chastisted Rae for making a big deal about this.

Newman actually made some good points that I had not thought of. One of the things he hammered Rae about was that politicians of all parties always have staff speech writers and letter writers. The speech conveys the points that the writer was told to write, but the actual word-for-word sentences and paragraphs are rarely those of the person giving the speech.

Rae didn't see it coming, I'm sure he thought the CBC would happily cheerlead along on his witchhunt.

Don Newman does a good job of being unbiased towards the parties and he calls it as he sees it. I have yesterday on PVR, I'll have to watch it tomorrow.

[YEGmann]

By the way, I've just rewatched the Liberal clip again.

How many Harper's sentences did coinside word for word with Howard's ones in the clip?

Ten? five?

The Liberals did poor job. They were able to find just two sentences that can be considered "plagiarized".

And one more with one word difference. That's it. All the rest is not plagiarism.

[Who's Doing What?]

Hahahahahaha toasters and tinfoil for everybody.

Better stock up, a harper majority is on the horizon.

The party has admitted there was plagerism and you think it still is a tinfoil hat conspiracy?

Exactly how much kool-aid are you drinking a day?

[jdobbin]

Yes, I can definitely see how saying that America is similar to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is a valid comparison in Liberal eyes.

Bennett called America Nazis? Please cite.

No they didn't. Perhaps you can cite this growth of support. It was probably somewhere around the time that the Liberals were talking about how we were all morally superior to those nasty Americans.

I don't know how many times it has to be posted here but here it goes again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governments%2..._of_Iraq#Canada

Jean Chrétien announced in Parliament on March 17, 2003 that Canada would not participate in the pending invasion, though he offered the US and its soldiers his moral support.

It was on CBC, CTV and Global. You can read the full text on Hansard. Other Tories will confirm it has been posted here many times before.

Moral support to our American allies was given. In debates in Hansard, Harper clearly wanted Canada in the fight.

Mind giving a link. However it's good to note that you along with the Liberal Party seem to think that Harper has bad judgement, and then openly state that the Tamil Tigers, an organization which has committed genocide, suicide bombing, terrorism, rape, and assassination, should be allowed to fundraise in Canada.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0410?hub=Canada

Vincent Veerasuntharam, a Tamil businessman from Toronto who ran unsuccessfully as a Tory candidate in the January election, said Tamils are concerned about the impact the terrorist designation will have on their ability to see their loved ones in their homeland.

"They're Canadians first, law-abiding citizens, hard-working people, paying their taxes, raising families," Veerasuntharam told The Canadian Press.

"But they have a lot of families left there (in Sri Lanka). They just want justice and peace for their folks."

I think the bad judgment was letting a Tamil run who clearly thought that the terrorist designation didn't belong.

Edited October 1, 2008 by jdobbin

[Who's Doing What?]

Yes, I can definitely see how saying that America is similar to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan is a valid comparison in Liberal eyes.

No they didn't. Perhaps you can cite this growth of support. It was probably somewhere around the time that the Liberals were talking about how we were all morally superior to those nasty Americans.

Mind giving a link. However it's good to note that you along with the Liberal Party seem to think that Harper has bad judgement, and then openly state that the Tamil Tigers, an organization which has committed genocide, suicide bombing, terrorism, rape, and assassination, should be allowed to fundraise in Canada.

Fundraising is bad but trying to become an elected official and part of the law making process of our country is okay?

Man I love the rights double standards.

[betsy]

I think you need to look at the difference between plagiarism and trademark infringement.

And I think you need to look at what's credible or not. What's downright sleazy opportunism (for lack of a better word) for the shameless mad scramble of a drowning party and just.

Dion's call for Harper to be "expelled" is quite pathetic. His sense of judgement is quite clouded.

At a time when the economy is facing such uncertainty, the Liberals me-first mentality comes to the fore. They'd rather waste time with this plagiarism that was committed by a speechwriter 6 years ago than concentrate on what's crucial and frightening to us all NOW!

At least give credit to the NDP for taking the high road on this (at least that's what the NDP lady named Saab was trying to do on CPAC. She tried to bring the debate back to the present).

I happened to disagree with the use of the name but it wasn't uncited use of someone else's work.

What? Not someone else's work? Just because the name consists of only two words, that isn't work?

Tell that to the poor businesswoman who came up with that name for her company.

Well Elizabeth May says the Liberals Green Shift was COPIED FROM THE GREEN PARTY'S Green Plan! That's another one that I just remembered!

The Liberals have been quite prolific with their infringement and copyings these last few months, haven't they?

In any event the issue of infringement was settled.

And the issue of this plagiarism has been settled. The culprit explained, apologised and resigned.

Edited October 1, 2008 by betsy

[Technocrat]

And I think you need to look at what's credible or not. What's downright sleazy opportunism (for lack of a better word) for the shameless mad scramble of a drowning party and just.

Dion's call for Harper to be "expelled" is quite pathetic. His sense of judgement is quite clouded.

At a time when the economy is facing such uncertainty, the Liberals me-first mentality comes to the fore. They'd rather waste time with this plagiarism that was committed by a speechwriter 6 years ago than concentrate on what's crucial and frightening to us all NOW!

At least give credit to the NDP for taking the high road on this (at least that's what the NDP lady named Saab was trying to do on CPAC. She tried to bring the debate back to the present).

What? Not someone else's work? Just because the name consists of only two words, that isn't work?

Tell that to the poor businesswoman who came up with that name for her company.

Well Elizabeth May says the Liberals Green Shift was COPIED FROM THE GREEN PARTY'S Green Plan! That's another one that I just remembered!

The Liberals have been quite prolific with their infringement and copyings these last few months, haven't they?

And the issue of this plagiarism has been settled. The culprit explained, apologised and resigned.

I think the worst part of this whole plagiarism speech is that Stephen Harper is presenting this as why canada should go to war in Iraq. Am I the only one concerned that he wouldn't have sat down and thought out what he wanted to say regarding Iraq on his own? OK I can see with maybe a few advisors but letting a backroom staffer essentially lay out your whole speech(and copying it for that matter) for going to war is less then I would expect from a leader. Not only that but it just adds to the whole notion of Harper being a pawn of the US republicans, more ammo for the tin foil hat bregade.

In all seriousness though, I would expect something a little more original if your trying to make the case for your country to invade another soverign nation, wouldn't you. I don't think this speech is easily excused. I do however beleive that this speech may have been made too far in the past to have any real effect or really resonate with most voters. IMHO the Liberals have waited to long to finally come out swinging. They fail to bring the debate back to actual policies where they could actually make some headway. Instead the Lib strategists insist on trying to dig up something for that magical 'gotcha' moment.

I do wonder why on earth it took so long to actually come to light, are the media in this country asleep or something?

Lastly this story made the BBC World Front Page! Way to go Harper, now you look like a douche on the world stage.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Technocrat