Harper's plagiarized 2003 Iraq speech

cybercoma · October 1, 2008

Now, my question would be how does this compare to how Dion plagiarized entire sections WORD FOR WORD in his campaign platform from the Suzuki Foundation?

They're separate issues that should be examined on their own without comparison. If one smoker says to another, "you really should quit smoking, it's bad for your health and chances are you'll die sooner," it doesn't make that argument any less true just because the person who said it is a smoker.

Moonbox · October 1, 2008

If and it seems when, Dion is shown to have plagiarized form Suzuki , then he needs to be asked about it and provide an answer.
If he refuses to answer or explain himself, then he is as much an idiot as Harper and his minions are for refusing to answer.

No more no less.

Wait...are you denying that it happened?????? I already provided links to newspapers confirming it. Harper and his 'minions' did provide an answer too. The writer of the speech resigned and the PM's office said they had no knowledge of the speech being plagiarized. What else do you want?

As far as I know with Dion he never apologized or admitted it. He tried to hide it.

myata · October 1, 2008

If this is what is known as a scandal these days, we've sure come a long way haven't we? Have you forgotten what the last government did? Do you really want more of that?

The "last" government, among other things, like recovering economy from pitysome condition, having more or less balanced and independent foreign policy, signing up to important multilateral international initiatives like International Criminal Court, Kyoto environment accord, Landmine Treaty, etc., has invested (thrown) some $200 million in miscellaneous activities of promoting Canada in Quebec (if that's what you're alluding to). The objective has been achieved, Quebec is still in Canada (and even if it were to separate in some future from now, the process would be much more predictable), but some of the money weren't accounted for while some more (some millons) were stolen. For comparison, the annual snow removal budget in Calgary for one season is 50 million. Not to diminish the responsibility in any way, but to put things in perspective, it was one of the greatest threats to the existence of the county in the century. The party heading the last government itself established a public enquiry in the abuses, and paid with being kicked out of the government.

Now Harper as leader of the Official Opposition delivered a speach that restated, without no original analysis, the ideas of a foreign politician, not to mention textual plagiarization of the report. When a politician in an independent country uses foreign inspiration to their policies to such an extent, it should be a matter of public concern, and yes, most definitely, is a scandal. In a country that values its independence and sovereignty, that is.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

Which is odd considering the fact the organization was officially banned after the election, as well it's been noted that the CPC had long supported banning LTTE. However it's good to note that the Liberals continue to think that an organization guilty of genocide, rape, assassination, and suicide bombing, should be allowed to operate in Canada. Plus the fact that Jean Chretien openly called for the elder Khadr to be freed in 96, and todays gang of Liberals wish for the Khadrs to all be living in Canada despite their noted terrorist activities should give any Canadian pause to wonder where the party stands on the war on terror.

The Tories downplayed their stand in the election to get their Tamil candidate elected. Why did they select a candidate who believes the organization is legit?

Which Liberals are you referring to?

Why haven't the Tories arrested all the Khadrs now? Are they soft on crime?

No, we don't find it necessary to publicly compare the Liberals to Stalin. However given the Liberals constant hatred of Bush one can't help but wonder if they'd prefer the company of Kim Jong Il, Castro, and the Iranian Mullahs, over a good relationship with America.

Which Liberals are you referring to hate the U.S.?

This is a lot of trolling on the subject of Canada-U.S. relations.

I love the U.S. Don't think too much about Bush and how he runs things but then again, he is Harper's good buddy, right?

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

On a similar note, according to MacLean's the Conservatives have (had) the highest percentage of non-university educated MPs at about 41%.

Yeah, the last thing we want is the peasents to get elected to office.

Doesn't come as a surprise, really, if one watches the HoC when it's in session, and it's no wonder that the party attracts the likes of some of the people who post here.

It's obvious that only people with a university education are destined to become great, that is unless you're the following people:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=sAclIgu_IEE

That's what I tell Tories in regards to them denying that if Harper had been PM he would have sent troops to Iraq.

and I keep on telling you, we wouldn't have been able to because the resources weren't there.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

and I keep on telling you, we wouldn't have been able to because the resources weren't there.

That's not what Harper said back in 2003.

Moonbox · October 1, 2008

The issue wasn't so much the plagiarism as the the indication that Harper displayed poor judgment about sending Canadian troops to Iraq.

No, that's why Liberal staffers were looking up the speech. Harper wanting to send troops to Iraq is something everyone already knew in 2006 and he was elected PM regardless.

The issue Bob Rae is making NOW is that Harper plagiarized a speech which is funny considering his party leader did just as bad or worse and so did numerous high ranking officials within his party (Iggy also).

capricorn · October 1, 2008

But I'm really interested in developing that line of thought further (and deeper).

I think it's pretty clear and further thought will not change the facts. The Liberals will say and do anything to wield the power once again in this country.

When else critical analysis of official's and/or government's actions should be contained for the concern of hurting "reputation"? Does it extend to situations when other parties happen to be in power? Please elaborate.

This had nothing to do with "critical analysis". It has everything to do with the fact that the majority of voters are rejecting the Liberal policies put forward in this campaign as well as a thumbs down on their leader, Dion. It is about the Liberals and how far they will go to claw their way to the top.

Now that the plagiarism charge against Harper has gained international attention and it has been revealed that an aide is the culprit and not Harper, what do you suppose informed Canadians will focus on? They will focus on the fact that a dirty ploy by Liberals for political gain has caused an international embarrassment. IMO the Liberals have shot themselves in the foot with this and voters will be further alienated.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

No, that's why Liberal staffers were looking up the speech. Harper wanting to send troops to Iraq is something everyone already knew in 2006 and he was elected PM regardless.

Some people keep denying that Harper would have gone to Iraq. So obviously, it isn't something everyone knows.

I suspect if there is war with Iran, Harper would show the same instinct he did with Iraq. Agree?

The issue Bob Rae is making NOW is that Harper plagiarized a speech which is funny considering his party leader did just as bad or worse and so did numerous high ranking officials within his party (Iggy also).

I listened to what Rae said. His argument was that Harper takes his cues from Bush and people like Howard? Agree?

guyser · October 1, 2008

Wait...are you denying that it happened??????

No I am not. Oh yeah.. ??????

Harper and his 'minions' did provide an answer too.

If they did, I missed it.

In the radio report and talk show last night that I listened to, the PR guy for Harper hung up on the journalist . Seems the PR flak was upset the interviewer asked him to answer the question instead of deflecting.

Deflecting, seems that is what this election is all about. From all sides.

independent · October 1, 2008

Wait...are you denying that it happened?????? I already provided links to newspapers confirming it. Harper and his 'minions' did provide an answer too. The writer of the speech resigned and the PM's office said they had no knowledge of the speech being plagiarized. What else do you want?
As far as I know with Dion he never apologized or admitted it. He tried to hide it.

If you read the comment section in the links you provided you will find the explanation of why it is not plagerism. But of course you knew that already. Since it was political in nature and not (a paper a Prof would write) it would not of hurt to be more specific about where the information came from.

Edited October 1, 2008 by independent

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

The Tories downplayed their stand in the election to get their Tamil candidate elected. Why did they select a candidate who believes the organization is legit?

It was well known before the election that the CPC would outlaw the LTTE. As well candidates are selected at the local level.

However good job on ignoring the fact that the Liberals were fully supportive of allowing the LTTE to operate in Canada.

Which Liberals are you referring to?

Specifically Jean Chretien when it comes to the elder Khadr. With regards to Hezbollah, I'll give the following link:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...fb-c076cea69e17

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0824?hub=Canada

Why haven't the Tories arrested all the Khadrs now? Are they soft on crime?

Desperation is a stinky cologne. However the fact your party wants all of the Khadrs back in Canada is testament to the support given to this rabble.

I love the U.S.

I'd buy that if you guys didn't always use America paranoia to win elections. I've noticed that anytime a politician supports putting repeat violent criminals in jails you guys always talk about how we're becoming "American." When military spending is increased, once again you state we're becoming "American." When it comes to ensuring border guards have the tools they require to do their job, once again the same line is trotted out, "you're American." When it comes to allowing for some private enterprise in healthcare, once again the same retort, "you're American."

Don't think too much about Bush and how he runs things but then again, he is Harper's good buddy, right?

I'd rather be buddies with Bush than Kim Jong Il, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and the Iranian Mullahs. However this rhetoric about us becoming "American" by the Liberals usually dies down after the election because we can't really mooch off the Iranian defence budget, and Castro can't give us the same amount of trade that the US can.

The Liberals usually rely on two things to help them win elections, either demonize the United States as they are doing now, or conversely demonize the west.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Canadian Blue

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

I suspect if there is war with Iran, Harper would show the same instinct he did with Iraq. Agree?

Jdobbin, you and your ilk were stating that Harper would send troops to Iraq in 2004, you stated the same thing in 2006, and now you're stating that we'll go to Iran in 2008. It's the same thing with abortion and gay marriage, much like your idiotic belief that Canada will be some dystopia where all women won't get an abortion, and that all gays will be sent to concentration camps. The same lines have been repeated for the past 10 years.

You guys should really adopt some new tactics. Unfortunately for you just because someone supports funding for the military, an elected senate, and tax cuts, it does not mean they're evil fascist/imperialist/theocratic pigs hoping to kill people for the fun of it.

noahbody · October 1, 2008

The issue wasn't so much the plagiarism as the the indication that Harper displayed poor judgment about sending Canadian troops to Iraq.

And if Dion was PM we'd be sending billions of tax dollars out of Canada to buy carbon credits which in no way would benefit Canada or the environment because of Chretien's lack of judgment to sign onto a useless international agreement and then do nothing. Then again, Chretien was the guy who thought a made-man known to do the books for the mafia was a great Canadian. How was his judgment on that one again?

The least you could do is give Harper credit for not bringing Taliban prisoners over to Canada. That, I'm sure we can agree would have lacked judgment.

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

I listened to what Rae said. His argument was that Harper takes his cues from Bush and people like Howard? Agree?

I just figured it out, Harper's evil plan is not to make us more American, but more Australian. Hurry up people, pretty soon we'll all be speaking a funny Australian accent, living out in the outback, and doing TV shows about wrestling Grizzly Bears in the same vein as the crocodile hunter.

The horror!!!

Here's the worst of Harpers plan. It's not outlawing abortion, homosexuality, it's not even his ultra secret plans to turn us into an American state:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=saa3UD72xBM&...feature=related

All day, every day.

I think I could get the hang of being a Liberal, it's nice to rely on nothing related to principle or policy, and only be paranoid about how the Conservatives will turn us into either Montana[2] or how the Conservatives may be even worse and turn us into New New South Wales.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Canadian Blue

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

It was well known before the election that the CPC would outlaw the LTTE. As well candidates are selected at the local level.

Really? Why was there Tamil candidate unaware and why did they dodge the question in the election? Why select a candidate who supported terrorism?

However good job on ignoring the fact that the Liberals were fully supportive of allowing the LTTE to operate in Canada.
Specifically Jean Chretien when it comes to the elder Khadr. With regards to Hezbollah, I'll give the following link:

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...fb-c076cea69e17

Guess it is a good thing that the Liberals elected Dion as leader since he is a noted friend of Israel.

Desperation is a stinky cologne. However the fact your party wants all of the Khadrs back in Canada is testament to the support given to this rabble.

Really? Where are they supporting the family?

Why doesn't Harper arrest the Khadrs?

I'd buy that if you guys didn't always use America paranoia to win elections. I've noticed that anytime a politician supports putting repeat violent criminals in jails you guys always talk about how we're becoming "American." When military spending is increased, once again you state we're becoming "American." When it comes to ensuring border guards have the tools they require to do their job, once again the same line is trotted out, "you're American." When it comes to allowing for some private enterprise in healthcare, once again the same retort, "you're American."

Think your criticism is a little over the top.

The Liberals usually rely on two things to help them win elections, either demonize the United States as they are doing now, or conversely demonize the west.

Usually they wins because the Tories mismanage things such. I suspect that is where the economy is headed now.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

I just figured it out, Harper's evil plan is not to make us more American, but more Australian. Hurry up people, pretty soon we'll all be speaking a funny Australian accent, living out in the outback, and doing TV shows about wrestling Grizzly Bears in the same vein as the crocodile hunter.

I think it is clearly evident that Howard and Harper admired one another and Harper was trying to learn from the Australian conservative movement. You disagree? That doesn't make any sense at all? No truth to the matter?

independent · October 1, 2008

I just figured it out, Harper's evil plan is not to make us more American, but more Australian. Hurry up people, pretty soon we'll all be speaking a funny Australian accent, living out in the outback, and doing TV shows about wrestling Grizzly Bears in the same vein as the crocodile hunter.
The horror!!!

Maybe you should apply for the Job of Harpers speech writer. No one could accuse you of plagerism.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

Jdobbin, you and your ilk were stating that Harper would send troops to Iraq in 2004, you stated the same thing in 2006, and now you're stating that we'll go to Iran in 2008. It's the same thing with abortion and gay marriage, much like your idiotic belief that Canada will be some dystopia where all women won't get an abortion, and that all gays will be sent to concentration camps. The same lines have been repeated for the past 10 years.
You guys should really adopt some new tactics. Unfortunately for you just because someone supports funding for the military, an elected senate, and tax cuts, it does not mean they're evil fascist/imperialist/theocratic pigs hoping to kill people for the fun of it.

My ilk? Want to throw any other stuff my way? I see the word idiotic as well. Why all the personal stuff? Why is the Harper plan attack, attack and go personal? Why the nastiness at a deep and personal level?

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

Guess it is a good thing that the Liberals elected Dion as leader since he is a noted friend of Israel.

Watch it boy, that sounds like Bush talk. Did you know that George W Bush has stated that he is a friend of Israel.

Think your criticism is a little over the top.

Problem is that it's true.

Usually they wins because the Tories mismanage things such. I suspect that is where the economy is headed now.

Well it's hard to imagine why in a global economic downturn Canada's economy would also be hit by said downturn. However I do think that the Liberals if given the reins of power could simply snap their fingers, do some David Blaine shit, and we'd all be singing Kumbayah while talking about how we're all superior to the despicable Americans.

Here is the Liberal argument so far:

1. If you don't elect us Canada will become America

2. Stephen Harper and all Conservatives hate women

3. Young People Fucking deserves more funding than the Military and the RCMP, it shows that our government is willing to fund mediocre crap even at the expense of national security

Edited October 1, 2008 by Canadian Blue

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

And if Dion was PM we'd be sending billions of tax dollars out of Canada to buy carbon credits which in no way would benefit Canada or the environment because of Chretien's lack of judgment to sign onto a useless international agreement and then do nothing. Then again, Chretien was the guy who thought a made-man known to do the books for the mafia was a great Canadian. How was his judgment on that one again?

Harper plans on cap and trade. Where do you think those billions are going to go?

Harper selected a Tamil to run in 2006 who thought the Tamil Youth organization was not a terrorist organization.

The least you could do is give Harper credit for not bringing Taliban prisoners over to Canada. That, I'm sure we can agree would have lacked judgment.

No, he turned them over to be tortured and then said Liberals supported terrorists even though some of the people tortured were not Taliban.

jdobbin · October 1, 2008

Watch it boy, that sounds like Bush talk. Did you know that George W Bush has stated that he is a friend of Israel.
Problem is that it's true.

Martin was a friend of Israel as well. Liberals have been great friends to Israel over the years and will continue to be.

It doesn't mean we can't criticize Israeli policies and be called anti-Semites in the process. Bush has criticized the latest home building program in the disputed territories. Is he anti-Israel?

As far as your truth goes, it is just your opinion.

Well it's hard to imagine why in a global economic downturn Canada's economy would also be hit by said downturn. However I do think that the Liberals if given the reins of power could simply snap their fingers, do some David Blaine shit, and we'd all be singing Kumbayah while talking about how we're all superior to the despicable Americans.
Here is the Liberal argument so far:

1. If you don't elect us Canada will become America

2. Stephen Harper and all Conservatives hate women

3. Young People Fucking deserves more funding than the Military and the RCMP, it shows that our government is willing to fund mediocre crap even at the expense of national security

Actually, the movie in question got great reviews.

As far as the rest of your points, it is is more inflammatory remarks.

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

Harper selected a Tamil to run in 2006 who thought the Tamil Youth organization was not a terrorist organization.

Which was only brought up after the election and not before it. You know unlike the Liberals we aren't the thought police.

My ilk? Want to throw any other stuff my way? I see the word idiotic as well.

Well, the fact that you think that in an worldwide economic downturn that Canada should reprioritize funding to support Tal Bachman and Avi Lewis so both of those guys can get all expense paid trips to Cuba and Africa.

Why is the Harper plan attack, attack and go personal?

Right, and as we all know Liberals never go personal. Including when they argue that any person who opposes their policy hates all women, supports Canada becoming a part of the United States.

I think it is clearly evident that Howard and Harper admired one another and Harper was trying to learn from the Australian conservative movement. You disagree?

No, I'm simply stating that the Liberal mantra has been to state that any opposition to their party is akin to being a traitor who supports the annexation of Canada into the United States. Needless to say I'd like to see where this new direction takes you where the new conspiracy theory the Liberals put forward is that Canada will one day become annexed into Australia.

Actually, the movie in question got great reviews.

Which is why the Liberals feel strongly about funding that. That's the reason why they oppose giving the military more funding, so they can fund Young People Fucking. There's nothing wrong with it, it just means that Liberals value Young People Fucking more than they do soldiers lives thats all.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Canadian Blue

Moonbox · October 1, 2008

Now that the plagiarism charge against Harper has gained international attention and it has been revealed that an aide is the culprit and not Harper, what do you suppose informed Canadians will focus on? They will focus on the fact that a dirty ploy by Liberals for political gain has caused an international embarrassment. IMO the Liberals have shot themselves in the foot with this and voters will be further alienated.

I think that's a bit of a reach. I don't think the average canuck takes their thoughts that far.

Canadian Blue · October 1, 2008

Martin was a friend of Israel as well. Liberals have been great friends to Israel over the years and will continue to be.
It doesn't mean we can't criticize Israeli policies and be called anti-Semites in the process. Bush has criticized the latest home building program in the disputed territories. Is he anti-Israel?

As far as your truth goes, it is just your opinion.

Actually, the movie in question got great reviews.

As far as the rest of your points, it is is more inflammatory remarks.

It's good to note that Liberals are great friends of Israel. That must have been why Denis Coderre marched at a pro-Hezbollah rally, an organization that openly supports destroying the state of Israel.