Austrian National Election

[kengs333]

Austria held an election on Sept. 28, and two right wing parties have made significant gains of approx. 7% for each party (mail-in ballots still need to be counted).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

[Ontario Loyalist]

Austria held an election on Sept. 28, and two right wing parties have made significant gains of approx. 7% for each party (mail-in ballots still need to be counted).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

The interesting thing is that the voting age was lowered, and for the first time 16 years-old were permitted to vote. I'm wondering how much of a factor this was, given that there seems to be an increase anti-immigrant sentiments among European youth in general.

[JB Globe]

two right wing parties have made significant gains

You mean, FAR-right parties, just like the article you quoted says . . . Right?

Edited September 28, 2008 by JB Globe

[kengs333]

You mean, FAR-right parties, just like the article you quoted says . . . Right?

Not really, no. I think there are several fringe parties with a nationalist/monarchist ideology that would be considered "far-right". The OVP is a centrist party, although it is classified as centre-right, these two parties therefore fall between the "far-right" and the OVP as simply right-wing parties.

[Argus]

You mean, FAR-right parties, just like the article you quoted says . . . Right?

I distrust the term since so many on the Canadian left have termed Harper's Conservatives as 'far right'. The term appears to be fairly flexible, and often used as simply a pejorative towards people the Left doesn't like.

Do they celebrate Hitler's birthday and want to jail Jews?

[eyeball]

I trust the term even less given where the so-called center is said to be located these days.

[BC_chick]

I distrust the term so many on the Canadian left have termed Harper's Conservatives as 'far right'[...]. The term appears to be fairly flexible, and often used as simply a pejorative towards people the Left doesn't like.

Do they celebrate Hitler's birthday and want to jail Jews?

Personally, I make the distinctions as follows:

Fiscal-conservative (could be socially-liberal)

Centre-right (socially and fiscally conservative but open to dialogue, ie present-day Harper)

Far-right (dogmatic in moralistic and militaristic views, ie Harper circa 2005)

Extreme-right (genocidal in their right wing views, ie, Hitler)

So yeah, Harper 'far-right' is feasible depending on the timeframe in question - past, or perhaps future should he have the mandate to do the things he preached about in the past.

Oh, as for the reversal, I would say the equivalents would be:

Social-Liberal (equal-rights and all that jazz but could be fiscally-conservative)

Socialist (believes in social-programs, equal-rights)

Communist (does not believe in any form of free-enterprise, human-rights be damned if you disagree)

Mao (genocidal in their communist views)

Edited October 1, 2008 by BC_chick

[blueblood]

Personally, I make the distinctions as follows:

Fiscal-conservative (could be socially-liberal)

Centre-right (socially and fiscally, ie present-day Harper)

Far-right (binary views and militaristic, ie Harper circa 2005)

Extreme-right (genocidal in their binary views, ie, Hitler)

So yeah, Harper 'far-right' is feasible depending on the timeframe - past, or perhaps future should he have the mandate to do the things he preached about in the past.

Oh, as for the reversal, I would say the equivalents would be a liberal, a socialist, a communist, and say Mao.

yet the nazis were socialists...

[BC_chick]

yet the nazis were socialists...

It's funny you mention that, most right-wingers do. In fact, I almost began my post to Argus by saying he's the first non-liberal I have seen admit that Hitler's views were right-wing in spite of the left-wing sounding name.

But no, Hitler was an extreme-righty. Moralistic, xenophobic, militaristic...

BTW, I walked away for a sec and pondered my post. Far-left and extreme left are just as dogmatic as far-right and extreme-right, they just put the emphais on different social issues. I'm going to edit my post to reflect that...

[blueblood]

It's funny you mention that, most right-wingers do. In fact, I almost began my post to Argus by saying he's the first non-liberal I have seen admit that Hitler's views were right-wing in spite of the left-wing sounding name.

But no, Hitler was an extreme-righty. Moralistic, xenophobic, militaristic...

BTW, I walked away for a sec and pondered my post. Far-left and extreme left are just as dogmatic as far-right and extreme-right, they just put the emphais on different social issues. I'm going to edit my post to reflect that...

Okay, Stalin was an extreme leftist as well and he butchered more people than Hitler.

Hitler's economic policies were severe gov't interference, hardly on the right side of the spectrum.

The Soviets with the extreme left were militaristic, murderers, and xenophobic.

Accusing the right of those things without acknowledging that has occured on the far left is nothing but shill partisanship.

[BC_chick]

Okay, Stalin was an extreme leftist as well and he butchered more people than Hitler.

Hitler's economic policies were severe gov't interference, hardly on the right side of the spectrum.

The Soviets with the extreme left were militaristic, murderers, and xenophobic.

Accusing the right of those things without acknowledging that has occured on the far left is nothing but shill partisanship.

You may want to take that all up with Argus, he's the one who brought up Hitler as an example of 'far-right'... he was saying "the left" refers to Harper as 'far-right' when to him 'far-right' is Hitler.

All I did was make the distinctions between far-right and extreme-right as I know them (hence, my opening statement of "personally, I make the distinction").

And if you're trying to convince me that the left is equally capable of brutality and dogmatic views, you're preaching to the choir. As you recall, I told you I reflected on my post and I suggested you read my edited post.

Evidently, you didn't.

Edited October 1, 2008 by BC_chick

[blueblood]

You may want to take that all up with Argus, he's the one who brought up Hitler as an example of 'far-right'... he was saying "the left" refers to Harper as 'far-right' when to him 'far-right' is Hitler.

All I did was make the distinctions between far-right and extreme-right as I know them (hence, my opening statement of "personally, I make the distinction").

And if you're trying to convince me that the left is equally capable of brutality and dogmatic views, you're preaching to the choir. As you recall, I told you I reflected on my post and I suggested you read my edited post.

Evidently, you didn't.

I'm trying to convince you that the nazis were not right wing, they were socialists.

The way your trying to equate nazis with right wing as far as the army goes is ridiculous because the commies love their armies.

Left = collective

Right = individual

Where was the individualism in nazi germany???

[kengs333]

yet the nazis were socialists...

And the Communist East Germany were democratic -- ie. German Democratic Republic

[kengs333]

I'm trying to convince you that the nazis were not right wing, they were socialists.

The way your trying to equate nazis with right wing as far as the army goes is ridiculous because the commies love their armies.

Left = collective

Right = individual

Where was the individualism in nazi germany???

Despite mass demonstrations and regimentation, Nazi ideology hinged on the individual. The Nazis NEVER practiced collective agriculture, and drew their support from ultraconservative right-wing groups before they came to power. Their arch-enemy were the Communists.

Face it, you're simply wrong on this one. Stick to farming.

[blueblood]

Despite mass demonstrations and regimentation, Nazi ideology hinged on the individual. The Nazis NEVER practiced collective agriculture, and drew their support from ultraconservative right-wing groups before they came to power. Their arch-enemy were the Communists.

Face it, you're simply wrong on this one. Stick to farming.

Your right, I'll stick to farming, the other r/w posters who know more about politics than I do will be glad to educate you on how Nazism is more on par with the leftwing ideology than right wing ideology.

[kengs333]

Your right, I'll stick to farming, the other r/w posters who know more about politics than I do will be glad to educate you on how Nazism is more on par with the leftwing ideology than right wing ideology.

Goodness! The Nazis were fascists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascists are anti-liberal, anti-capitalist, and anti-communist...

So you're confusing the concept of totalitarianism with "left-wing":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

Moreover, the Nazis derived support from ultraconservative right-wing political and paramilitary organizations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm,_Bu...r_Frontsoldaten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNVP

[moderateamericain]

Goodness! The Nazis were fascists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascists are anti-liberal, anti-capitalist, and anti-communist...

So you're confusing the concept of totalitarianism with "left-wing":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

Moreover, the Nazis derived support from ultraconservative right-wing political and paramilitary organizations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlhelm,_Bu...r_Frontsoldaten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNVP

The Nazi's were Ultra Nationalist. And they fucking hated Communist with a passion. I think if they had the US at there Front and Communist at there back they would turn and shoot at the Communist. Come to think of it thats essentially what they did.

[Argus]

Personally, I make the distinctions as follows:

Fiscal-conservative (could be socially-liberal)

Centre-right (socially and fiscally conservative but open to dialogue, ie present-day Harper)

Far-right (dogmatic in moralistic and militaristic views, ie Harper circa 2005)

I don't recall Harper ever being dogmatic in a moral sense.

Jack Layton, now he is dogmatic on moral and social issues, utterly and completely dogmatic to the point no views are accepted within the party which go against their social and moral beliefs.

You can be pro choice and for same-sex marriage if you're a Conservative.

Try being pro-life and against same-sex marriage in the NDP! Woot! They'll tar and feather you and throw you out the highest window they can find, with your party membership stuffed up your rectal cavity first.

[kengs333]

Try being pro-life and against same-sex marriage in the NDP! Woot! They'll tar and feather you and throw you out the highest window they can find, with your party membership stuffed up your rectal cavity first.

This is one of the rare occasions that I can agree with Argus.

[kengs333]

Joerg Haider dies in car crash:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7664846.stm