Saskatchewan Boom

[blueblood]

Its highway 10 in SK...and I drove the whole thing a few weeks ago. Besides the fact that they had paved shoulders (something that the NDP has begun to put on highways that are completely rebuilt here, well, at least partially paved) I didn't really see much difference on either side of the border. In other words, not much on either side.

Now, how about you take a drive into both Regina (or even Saskatoon for that matter) and then Winnipeg (where nearly 3/4 of our pop is) and tell me who has more going on. I'm not saying SK is doing badly, what I'm saying is that Manitoba is also doing well. I'm very happy for Saskatchewan, but I'm very proud of Manitoba and all the opportunities that are presenting themselves.

No there is a Hwy. 5 North of that, drive that the whole distance. Even on hwy. 10 there is that big, rapidly expanding town near the MB border... My point is, the Hwy. 5 in SK has a lot more prosperity than Hwy. 5 in MB.

[blueblood]

Its highway 10 in SK...and I drove the whole thing a few weeks ago. Besides the fact that they had paved shoulders (something that the NDP has begun to put on highways that are completely rebuilt here, well, at least partially paved) I didn't really see much difference on either side of the border. In other words, not much on either side.

Now, how about you take a drive into both Regina (or even Saskatoon for that matter) and then Winnipeg (where nearly 3/4 of our pop is) and tell me who has more going on. I'm not saying SK is doing badly, what I'm saying is that Manitoba is also doing well. I'm very happy for Saskatchewan, but I'm very proud of Manitoba and all the opportunities that are presenting themselves.

I've just been to Saskatoon, way more going on there than in Winnipeg. Way more, it's not even close. Half of Saskatoon is under construction and there is a big housing development going up on Hwy. 5.

I'd be proud of Manitoba if we'd be on par with SK.

[Smallc]

No there is a Hwy. 5 North of that, drive that the whole distance. Even on hwy. 10 there is that big, rapidly expanding town near the MB border... My point is, the Hwy. 5 in SK has a lot more prosperity than Hwy. 5 in MB.

Your being selective. I admit Saskatchewan is doing well. But you forget about the way that towns like Steinbach and Winkler and Brandon and Thompson and Winnipeg are expanding here. Dauphin is not the norm. There are areas of each province that are doing quite well and each province overall is doing quite well. Ta is why MB and SK are the two fastest growing provinces economically. In other words, it has little to do with government and everything to do with what there is available (unless of course the inland port really does take off in either Regina or Winnipeg, then that part of the growth will have a great deal to do with government.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Smallc

[blueblood]

Your being selective. I admit Saskatchewan is doing well. But you forget about the way that towns like Steinbach and Winkler and Brandon and Thompson and Winnipeg are expanding here. Dauphin is not the norm. There are areas of each province that are doing quite well and each province overall is doing quite well. Ta is why MB and SK are the two fastest growing provinces economically. In other words, it has little to do with government and everything to do with what there is available (unless of course the inland port really does take off in either Regina or Winnipeg, then that part of the growth will have a great deal to do with government.

Not expanding as fast as Yorkton. The area that is doing well in SK is significantly larger than the area in MB.

[unspoken]

What I wonder at is why Saskatchewan is so far behind Alberta when it comes to developing this industry.

The answer is simple. Nobody wanted to do business here because we had the highest corporate tax rates in the country for years.

[Smallc]

Not expanding as fast as Yorkton. The area that is doing well in SK is significantly larger than the area in MB.

Thompson has basically doubled in size in the last two years. Steinbach is 20% larger than it was 5 years ago. Brandon is growing very quickly though I don't have the exact numbers.

Again, I admit Saskatchewan is the on pace to be the second fastest if not the fastest growing economy. Manitoba is in the same situation and I assert because of this that the NDP hasn't been bad for the province. You seem to hate the fact that Manitoba is doing well while having an NDP government.

[jdobbin]

The boom started under the NDP, so its not a coincidence, its a selective memory. I guess it must also be a coincidence that the second fastest growing economy is managed by the NDP.

It's true. Some people continue to think that the prosperity boom started just this year but it has been building for some time under the NDP. It took a while to eliminate the waste and deficit that the PCs ran up.

[jdobbin]

Why did it take so long? For decades people left Saskatchewan to work in other provinces because there wasn't any opportunity at home. Maybe the province wouldn't have lost whole generations of its young people if the governments had been able to put some kind of sensible strategy together far sooner.

The price to develop a lot of Saskatchewan's oil was simply too high till the 1980s.

Alberta developed 500 oil companies in 24 hours when wet gas was discovered in 1914. By 1947, when a large supply of light oil was found in Leduc, Alberta had been oil drilling since 1883 and had the most expertise in western Canada. The also sat upon the greatest oil supply in the world.

To get the oil sands going, the Alberta government had to invite various governments across Canada to a meeting in Winnipeg in 1975. Governments invested in the oil sands.

The development time for heavy oil upgraders was set for a 1988 timetable and government was heavily invested.

Why did Saskatchewan take longer to develop? Price. The type of oil being drilled. Experience in the industry.

[Smallc]

Why did Saskatchewan take longer to develop? Price. The type of oil being drilled. Experience in the industry.

Its the same reason that many of the reserves in this province haven't even been tapped yet. It's too expensive and/or the technology hasn't reached the level to make it worthwhile.

[jbg]

Even though I'd now consider myself a classical liberal, I found the Manitoba NDP to be alright. Not great, but alright.

My politics are more closely aligned with the Federal NDP, so I doubt I'd like Gary Doer.

[jbg]

Is it a coincidence that after years of NDP rule, that Saskatchewan is having a boom similar to Alberta, under a new provincial leadership?

NDP = Take from those who want to do something productive in their lives and give to those who choose not to work, even when they are able to work. It amazes me that the NDP has any support amongst working, tax paying Canadians. The NDP puts the "welfare" in welfare state.

Could you imagine a country with Jack Layton as its PM. My goodness.

You sound like a capitalist running dog supporter of Bush and Harper. You need to be re-educated.

If you notice the number of Americans and Canadians fleeing to China and North Korea, you'd see the need for a North Korean-style re-education.

Mao Mao Mao Tse Tung!!!! Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh!!! Chou Chou Chou En lai!!! Power to the people!!!

[blueblood]

Thompson has basically doubled in size in the last two years. Steinbach is 20% larger than it was 5 years ago. Brandon is growing very quickly though I don't have the exact numbers.

Again, I admit Saskatchewan is the on pace to be the second fastest if not the fastest growing economy. Manitoba is in the same situation and I assert because of this that the NDP hasn't been bad for the province. You seem to hate the fact that Manitoba is doing well while having an NDP government.

I don't hate that Manitoba is doing well, it could be doing better. I predict that if Manitoba is not on pace with Saskatchewan as far as business and growth are concerned and we are still a have not province, the NDP could be in hot water.

Calvert was a popular premier in SK and he was tossed out just when it became good times there.

[blueblood]

The price to develop a lot of Saskatchewan's oil was simply too high till the 1980s.

Alberta developed 500 oil companies in 24 hours when wet gas was discovered in 1914. By 1947, when a large supply of light oil was found in Leduc, Alberta had been oil drilling since 1883 and had the most expertise in western Canada. The also sat upon the greatest oil supply in the world.

To get the oil sands going, the Alberta government had to invite various governments across Canada to a meeting in Winnipeg in 1975. Governments invested in the oil sands.

The development time for heavy oil upgraders was set for a 1988 timetable and government was heavily invested.

Why did Saskatchewan take longer to develop? Price. The type of oil being drilled. Experience in the industry.

You forgot the price of the ridiculous corporate tax imposed by the NDP.

[jdobbin]

You forgot the price of the ridiculous corporate tax imposed by the NDP.

I also have forgotten the huge financial mess the PCs left in Saskatchewan.

The corporate tax was reduced by a large margin in 2006 and down again in 2007.

[blueblood]

I also have forgotten the huge financial mess the PCs left in Saskatchewan.

The corporate tax was reduced by a large margin in 2006 and down again in 2007.

Alberta was in the same financial mess and they didn't resort to gouging business.

The way SK is going now, it'll be hard for a left wing party to get in for a long long time.

[jdobbin]

Alberta was in the same financial mess and they didn't resort to gouging business.

No, they ran a huge deficit because of spending and had to blow up a Calgary hospital to dig themselves out until the next oil boom happened.

The way SK is going now, it'll be hard for a left wing party to get in for a long long time.

The way past conservative governments have spent, it will probably need some other party to dig them out after the party is over.

[blueblood]

No, they ran a huge deficit because of spending and had to blow up a Calgary hospital to dig themselves out until the next oil boom happened.

The way past conservative governments have spent, it will probably need some other party to dig them out after the party is over.

Mission accomplished, a far better strategy than gouging business and driving out all of the young people of that province to other parts of the country.

The sask party isn't spending much of anything right now. I think they're paying off the debt.

Just like the Trudeau gov't needed Mulroney's policies to bail Canada out when Trudeau's spending party was over.

[eyeball]

Anyone catch this documentary Tar Sands, The Selling of Alberta. It questions how much Canada is willing to sacrifice for a stake in this century's greatest energy bonanza.

Ironically some of the biggest buyers of Alberta include nationalized oil companies from other countries. Norway for example nationalized their oil reserves decades ago. They're now nearly exhausted but in the meantime they became one of the wealthiest nations on Earth with the longest lifespans and best qualities of life and they have 350 billion bucks in the bank to ensure this remains the case for generations to come. Norway also managed to do all this without destroying their ecosystems in the process and now they have the leverage to further enrich their society by developing other countries oil reserves.

They're over here buying Alberta for 2 bucks a barrel as we speak.

If Saskatchewan and Manitoba have any brains at all they'd invite Norway to come and manage their oil industry for them.

I'd be perfectly happy to contract out the governance our whole country to them actually.

Edited September 29, 2008 by eyeball

[jdobbin]

Mission accomplished, a far better strategy than gouging business and driving out all of the young people of that province to other parts of the country.

Seems to me that the last time oil dropped, we saw people leaving as they always do.

The Alberta government are serial overspenders.

The sask party isn't spending much of anything right now. I think they're paying off the debt.

Baloney. They have one of the higher provincial spending programs out there.

Just like the Trudeau gov't needed Mulroney's policies to bail Canada out when Trudeau's spending party was over.

The right always seems to forget about the spending cuts. Mulroney raised taxes 19 times and didn't really cut spending significantly. With eight years of majority government, you have to wonder what they were waiting for.

All the huge tax programs in the world are not going to end deficit spending unless you reduce spending.

[blueblood]

Seems to me that the last time oil dropped, we saw people leaving as they always do.

The Alberta government are serial overspenders.

Baloney. They have one of the higher provincial spending programs out there.

The right always seems to forget about the spending cuts. Mulroney raised taxes 19 times and didn't really cut spending significantly. With eight years of majority government, you have to wonder what they were waiting for.

All the huge tax programs in the world are not going to end deficit spending unless you reduce spending.

This time around, people aren't leaving SK.

What does the alberta gov't spend their money on, boosting their economy? Cutting taxes? Is not having a PST overspending?

That and NAFTA helps things out along as well.

Trudeau found that out with NEP, his deficit got bigger. Mulroney was busy trying to pay that massive debt from trudeau. It was a massive debt that needed to be paid for. The Alberta gov't spent money on developing the oil sector, look where AB is and where MB is, hmm.

[blueblood]

Anyone catch this documentary Tar Sands, The Selling of Alberta. It questions how much Canada is willing to sacrifice for a stake in this century's greatest energy bonanza.

Ironically some of the biggest buyers of Alberta include nationalized oil companies from other countries. Norway for example nationalized their oil reserves decades ago. They're now nearly exhausted but in the meantime they became one of the wealthiest nations on Earth with the longest lifespans and best qualities of life and they have 350 billion bucks in the bank to ensure this remains the case for generations to come. Norway also managed to do all this without destroying their ecosystems in the process and now they have the leverage to further enrich their society by developing other countries oil reserves.

They're over here buying Alberta for 2 bucks a barrel as we speak.

If Saskatchewan and Manitoba have any brains at all they'd invite Norway to come and manage their oil industry for them.

I'd be perfectly happy to contract out the governance our whole country to them actually.

What are you on, now that the Norweigan oilfields are almost out, they're spending that 350 billion on oil over here plus their ridiculous social programs.

Canada has a much better management of the oilfields, Alberta especially, the average Albertan lives much better than the average Norweigan.

If norway is so good, why don't you emigrate there...

Edited September 29, 2008 by blueblood

[eyeball]

What are you on, now that the Norweigan oilfields are almost out, they're spending that 350 billion on oil over here plus their ridiculous social programs.

I don't think so, the program made it quite clear the $350 billion is in the bank. I can see them investing the interest from that in Canada but it sounds like that nest egg is definitely set aside for future generations.

Canada has a much better management of the oilfields, Alberta especially, the average Albertan lives much better than the average Norweigan.

Only because Albertans are spending everything as fast as they're earning it. In the long run Norway will "win the race" so to speak. So how big is Alberta's nest egg?

If norway is so good, why don't you emigrate there...

I'm certainly giving it some thought.

[blueblood]

I don't think so, the program made it quite clear the $350 billion is in the bank. I can see them investing the interest from that in Canada but it sounds like that nest egg is definitely set aside for future generations.

Only because Albertans are spending everything as fast as they're earning it. In the long run Norway will "win the race" so to speak. So how big is Alberta's nest egg?

I'm certainly giving it some thought.

The Americans and Soviets had that same race, who lost again???

How big is the average Albertan's nest egg compared to the average Norweigan's nest egg? Not only that, there is still lots of resources to be had there, not to mention a very prosperous ag industry coming in.

Socialism is a failed experiment, and the lifestyle of Albertan's is proof.

Edited September 29, 2008 by blueblood

[jdobbin]

This time around, people aren't leaving SK.

Oil isn't down to where it was over a year ago.

What does the alberta gov't spend their money on, boosting their economy? Cutting taxes? Is not having a PST overspending?

Spending as they are doing in Alberta is inflationary. It increases the cost of everything. I have seen a few business start-ups in Manitoba this year because it is too expensive to find labour in Alberta. McNally Robinson closed in Calgary, not because they weren't profitable but because it was too hard to retain labour and the long term prospects for profitability were narrowing.

Trudeau found that out with NEP, his deficit got bigger. Mulroney was busy trying to pay that massive debt from trudeau. It was a massive debt that needed to be paid for. The Alberta gov't spent money on developing the oil sector, look where AB is and where MB is, hmm.

This constant defence of Mulroney and his tax and spending habits is pretty hard to rationalize. Mulroney raised taxes 19 times and he continue to spend and not cut service in a meaningful way. That is the record. All Mulroney did was increase taxes. Massively. Where was the meaningful cuts?

Where exactly do you suggest Manitoba should invest money? Our oil industry is tiny compared to Alberta not because of lack of investment but because the pool of oil here is small and was not economical until recent years.

Manitoba has invested in industry, hydro and services and has one of the most diversified economies in Canada. Some of those investments have been foolish, others have worked out okay. None of them produce royalties like oil can.

Edited September 29, 2008 by jdobbin

[lukin]

Your being selective. I admit Saskatchewan is doing well. But you forget about the way that towns like Steinbach and Winkler and Brandon and Thompson and Winnipeg are expanding here. Dauphin is not the norm. There are areas of each province that are doing quite well and each province overall is doing quite well. Ta is why MB and SK are the two fastest growing provinces economically. In other words, it has little to do with government and everything to do with what there is available (unless of course the inland port really does take off in either Regina or Winnipeg, then that part of the growth will have a great deal to do with government.

Have you been to Duaphin? The city is a huge dump. Nice arena, but the rest of the city is a dump. I went through there last week on my way home to Winnipeg.