The Green Party after the election

[Wild Bill]

More like ideology is clouding your judgement. One of the driving forces of capitalism is the need to maximize profits and in doing so whether or not the individual can afford the product is of no concern to the producer. That's why we don't have $10 dvd players.

Well, you do understand that it might cost you $11 to manufacture them...

I guess then you'd sell them under cost and expect to make it up in volume.

[WIP]

I liked what Jim Harris of the Green Party said on the news today about saving auto manufacturing jobs in Ontario. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that stricter environmental regulations on automobiles would mean more people would buy North American vehicles, therefore the 20,000 jobs lost would have been saved. That's what they would have done because they're fiscally conservative (would not have given out grants) but socially progressive because they care about the environment.

I think the problem with the Green Party is similar to what's happening now with the Liberals after Stephan Dion proposed a carbon tax -- everyone wants to be an environmentalist, as long as someone else pays for it. Unless people see environmental issues becoming serious life or death issues, they are not going to be willing to pay the price to shift away from an oil-based economy; and a political party that focuses on taking action before there is a runaway greenhouse effect is going to have a hard time gaining traction unless the peak oil theorists are right, and the oil becomes costly enough to make alternative energy the only option.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Well, you do understand that it might cost you $11 to manufacture them...

I guess then you'd sell them under cost and expect to make it up in volume.

I don't know. I'm under the impression of some of the cheaper ones cost somewhat less than $10 to produce.

[M.Dancer]

Evidently you don't know your own leader's position on the Senate. He once stated: "if the Senate cannot be elected, then is should be abolished."

What does "on certain issues" mean to you? To me it suggests that I'm implying that there are specific issues that the majority of constituants would be opposed to, perhaps even some Conservative supporters. Should he vote in accordance with the wishes of his constituents or follow the party line?

Now was that so hard?

No they don't have two positions, just one. Reform the senate.

But they did say the would support the NDPs position to get rid of the seante.......if it can't be reformed.

Layton has one position. Abolish the senate.

[M.Dancer]

Evidently you don't know your own leader's position on the Senate. He once stated: "if the Senate cannot be elected, then is should be abolished."

What does "on certain issues" mean to you? To me it suggests that I'm implying that there are specific issues that the majority of constituants would be opposed to, perhaps even some Conservative supporters. Should he vote in accordance with the wishes of his constituents or follow the party line?

Now was that so hard?

No they don't have two positions, just one. Reform the senate.

But they did say the would support the NDPs position to get rid of the seante.......if it can't be reformed.

Layton has one position. Abolish the senate.Certain issues? Well if you think 60% are opposed to certain issues in your riding I'm sure your polling efforts are commendable.

[cybercoma]

I think the problem with the Green Party is similar to what's happening now with the Liberals after Stephan Dion proposed a carbon tax -- everyone wants to be an environmentalist, as long as someone else pays for it. Unless people see environmental issues becoming serious life or death issues, they are not going to be willing to pay the price to shift away from an oil-based economy; and a political party that focuses on taking action before there is a runaway greenhouse effect is going to have a hard time gaining traction unless the peak oil theorists are right, and the oil becomes costly enough to make alternative energy the only option.

I actually think it's a really good idea to have stronger environmental regulations on vehicles. Ontario has had that "drive clean" program for years now, but here in New Brunswick there's nothing of the sort. I don't think drive clean goes far enough though. The regulations should be higher for fuel efficiency in vehicles being sold in Canada.

What I think was dishonest about the comment is that he suggested making stronger regulations would have saved jobs in the auto industry. All the manufacturers would have had to follow the new rules and as a result, the foreign car industry would still be ahead. It was the reliability of the Japanese cars during the 90s that caused the shift in the market, not the fuel efficiency; it just so happens those manufacturers got that right too going into the new millennium.

Anyway, I just don't think stronger regulations on the auto-industry would've saved auto-worker jobs.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Now was that so hard?

No they don't have two positions, just one. Reform the senate.

But they did say the would support the NDPs position to get rid of the seante.......if it can't be reformed.

Layton has one position. Abolish the senate.

I never said they had two positions; you did. I simply stated that the Conservatives would rather have it abolished if it isn't elected.

[WIP]

I actually think it's a really good idea to have stronger environmental regulations on vehicles. Ontario has had that "drive clean" program for years now, but here in New Brunswick there's nothing of the sort. I don't think drive clean goes far enough though. The regulations should be higher for fuel efficiency in vehicles being sold in Canada.

What I think was dishonest about the comment is that he suggested making stronger regulations would have saved jobs in the auto industry. All the manufacturers would have had to follow the new rules and as a result, the foreign car industry would still be ahead. It was the reliability of the Japanese cars during the 90s that caused the shift in the market, not the fuel efficiency; it just so happens those manufacturers got that right too going into the new millennium.

Anyway, I just don't think stronger regulations on the auto-industry would've saved auto-worker jobs.

I hope you don't expect politicians to be honest! If so, you must be frequently disappointed. The argument that tougher emission standards would have prevented the meltdown that's happening in Ontario's auto industry may have worked if the government was in the business of making the cars; but the reality is that if the car manufacturers in Ontario were told that new cars coming off the assembly line would have to meet tougher emission standards than elsewhere back when oil was still under 40$ a barrel, they would have shifted production elsewhere. Ontario's misfortune is that so much of the production here is trucks, vans and SUV's -- and high gas prices have killed demand for gas-guzzling vehicles.

The case for tougher environmental standards is a lot easier to make when gas prices are high than when oil is selling for 10$ a barrel. Now, if someone here has any influence with morons like Dan McTeague and Jack Layton, teach them the simple principles of supply and demand -- trying to freeze or subsidize gas prices will encourage demand and reduce environmental goals to wishful thinking.

The NDP is a dinosaur that is still using the same stale ideas of Ed Broadbent. If anything good comes out of this election, I hope the Greens replace the NDP as the party on the left.

[Topaz]

You are going to see more unemployment in the auto sector in north american because they don't need as many people to build the new wave of cars. The companies are offering buyouts but right now not many are taking them especially in the US were they won't have any healthcare after they leave.On another matter , I heard that if the oil prices start to go down there the oil sands will become too expensive to work and there people will lose their jobs then how would the unemployment be then? I'm sure that won't happen but I guess the Middle-East has enough money that they could reduce the price of oil to do harm to the oil sands.

[Ontario Loyalist]

You are going to see more unemployment in the auto sector in north american because they don't need as many people to build the new wave of cars. The companies are offering buyouts but right now not many are taking them especially in the US were they won't have any healthcare after they leave.On another matter , I heard that if the oil prices start to go down there the oil sands will become too expensive to work and there people will lose their jobs then how would the unemployment be then? I'm sure that won't happen but I guess the Middle-East has enough money that they could reduce the price of oil to do harm to the oil sands.

Honestly, I couldn't care less for jobs lost in the oil industry. Everybody in this country has the chance to go to school and receive higher education, and so if people want to go into that kind of work then it's their problem if it doesn't work out. Even if you work a short time in that field, you should be able to save up enough money to see you through until you find another job. People being what they are, most won't, though.

[cybercoma]

Honestly, I couldn't care less for jobs lost in the oil industry. Everybody in this country has the chance to go to school and receive higher education, and so if people want to go into that kind of work then it's their problem if it doesn't work out. Even if you work a short time in that field, you should be able to save up enough money to see you through until you find another job. People being what they are, most won't, though.

Not everyone has the means or the ability to get a higher education. Tuition at universities across Canada this year are nearly $6000/year. After spending 30 hours on campus, then a considerable number more hours doing research and assignments, that leaves little to no time left to work in order to pay rent, utilities and groceries. A person with a family and a partner with very little income or worse yet, a single parent, may not be able to afford the prohibitive cost, in dollars and time, of higher education. Also, it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to save when you're merely making ends meet to support yourself and your family. It'd be nice if we lived in this fantasy world where everyone had the time and financial resources to better themselves, but that's just not the case.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Not everyone has the means or the ability to get a higher education. Tuition at universities across Canada this year are nearly $6000/year. After spending 30 hours on campus, then a considerable number more hours doing research and assignments, that leaves little to no time left to work in order to pay rent, utilities and groceries. A person with a family and a partner with very little income or worse yet, a single parent, may not be able to afford the prohibitive cost, in dollars and time, of higher education. Also, it makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to save when you're merely making ends meet to support yourself and your family. It'd be nice if we lived in this fantasy world where everyone had the time and financial resources to better themselves, but that's just not the case.

First of all, I understand the whole issue with costs, although when I went it was just in the $2,500 range. I remember there being a concern about the rising cost of tuition, but as usual the student body was largely apathetic about doing anything about it. Unlike in Europe, university students in Canada tend not regard themselves as members of a class and are simply content to do their time and try and get on with life. It's a sad reflection on how our society has groomed its children to be selfish and individualistic, and this reality was exploited by the Harris government and now the Liberals want to do nothing about it. Whatever the case, the cost is not really an excuse; a person can apply themselves during their stint in the public school system and this will lead to funding and support. Even if they have to take out a loan, they can always pay it back with the job that their university education will get them.