Networks Decide not to Allow The Green Party in Debate

capricorn · September 9, 2008

The network consortium* organizes the leaders' debates as a public service. They are not obligated to facilitate these debates.

This morning on Canada AM, Lizzy said she is considering a complaint to the CRTC regarding the consortium's decision to exclude her. What next? A complaint to the Canadian Human Rights Commission? An appeal to the United Nations? I for one am sick of seeing and hearing her whining everywhere I turn.

The consortium would be within its rights to just walk away and wash its hands of this whole thing. I would not want to see this happen. This is the only opportunity we have to hear the leaders of the major parties go face to face nationally on the issues.

Lizzy has made her point and received ample press coverage in the process. If she wants to pursue the matter that's her call. However, she should lay off playing the gender card. I'm not buying it and a lot of Canadians don't either.

* The TV networks in the consortium are CBC, Radio-Canada, CTV, Global Television and TVA, a Quebec-based French-language network.

jdobbin · September 9, 2008

Lizzy has made her point and received ample press coverage in the process.

I'm not a supporter of May but it would be nice if people used proper names when addressing people in the forums.

I find for the most part nicknames used by critics are put downs or insults. I don't use them myself when referring to Harper or Dion out respect for them, this forum and myself.

Foxer · September 9, 2008

On the contrary, they are opponents.

She already endorsed Dion for Prime Minister. How can you possibly call them opponents?

I might be sympathetic if she hadn't done deals or endorsed another political party - and if she'd actually won a seat that'd be different (even preston had to win one seat before they let him in).

But seriously - she's a fringe party and largely a protest vote, she has no place at the table if she's already saying who she'd like to see as Prime Minister (and it isn't her apperently).

nbguyca · September 9, 2008

They have candidates running throughout the country, which is more than any other fringe party ever done, including Reform and the Bloc. I think that fact alone should be reason enough to include here in the debates.

August1991 · September 9, 2008

This is the only opportunity we have to hear the leaders of the major parties go face to face nationally on the issues.

Huh? They do that every day in the House of Commons when parliament is in session. That is what parliament is for.

This whole idea of TV debates is an American import since presidential candidates have no other venue to debate. Even the US Congress is not designed in a parliamentary style.

With that said, I enjoy TV debates as much as the next political junkie but I still think that five people on the podium is cumbersome. It would be like a US primary debate in January.

Edited September 9, 2008 by August1991

blueblood · September 9, 2008

Huh? They do that every day in the House of Commons when parliament is in session. That is what parliament is for.
This whole idea of TV debates is an American import since presidential candidates have no other venue to debate. Even the US Congress is not designed in a parliamentary style.

With that said, I enjoy TV debates as much as the next political junkie but I still think that five people on the podium is cumbersome. It would be like a US primary debate in January.

I didn't enjoy the ones last year, it was too canned for my liking. All they did was answer questions, it was more like an interview than a debate. If they're going to be debating, let them go at it and my the best man win.

Wild Bill · September 9, 2008

They have candidates running throughout the country, which is more than any other fringe party ever done, including Reform and the Bloc. I think that fact alone should be reason enough to include here in the debates.

Wrongo! Reform ran candidates EVERYWHERE! Including Quebec!

"Down the memory hole, Winston!"

thermo · September 9, 2008

I'm not sure about this but, didn't the Reformers have an elected MP who actually ran and won under the Reform Party?
The Green Party do not have an elected MP who ran and won under the Green Banner. They got this now-independent MP who ran and won under the Liberal banner. So it is not the same thing.

In the case of the Reform it was a bi-election victory that sent their lone person to the house.

The Bloc might be a different story tho.

nbguyca · September 9, 2008

Wrongo! Reform ran candidates EVERYWHERE! Including Quebec!
"Down the memory hole, Winston!"

Sorry my mistake. I didn't think in the first elections the Reform party ran all over the country. I know they did in later elections.

M.Dancer · September 9, 2008

Sorry my mistake. I didn't think in the first elections the Reform party ran all over the country. I know they did in later elections.

Yes in 1993. Their second election. They were not part of the the 1988 debates but in 93 they had Deb Grey who had been elected as a reform MP in a by election.

Ontario Loyalist · September 9, 2008

Reform won 52 seats in their second election, and were the official opposition by their third. The Greens have yet to elect a single member in seven elections. Big difference.
Hopefully, one good thing that might come of this is a codified set of rules for participation.

The situation is a little different, though. Green politics is relatively new, while the politics that the Reform embodied had been around for quite some time and manifested itself in so-called "fringe parties" too. It had simply infiltrated the PCs and when that didn't work, then they broke with the party and started another one. The Reform was also a regional party, while the Greens are a national party; regional parties tend to have an advantage with the FPTP system.

capricorn · September 9, 2008

Huh? They do that every day in the House of Commons when parliament is in session. That is what parliament is for.

Oh come on August. You know darn well I meant during the elections.

With that said, I enjoy TV debates as much as the next political junkie but I still think that five people on the podium is cumbersome. It would be like a US primary debate in January.

I like the debates. I watch both the English and French debates. The best part is where the leaders have to go off script. It can make for interesting gaffes.

thermo · September 10, 2008

So the NDP and Cons have now said they will not boycott the debate if the Greens are there.

May might make it in after all!

Wild Bill · September 10, 2008

The situation is a little different, though. Green politics is relatively new, while the politics that the Reform embodied had been around for quite some time and manifested itself in so-called "fringe parties" too. It had simply infiltrated the PCs and when that didn't work, then they broke with the party and started another one. The Reform was also a regional party, while the Greens are a national party; regional parties tend to have an advantage with the FPTP system.

Regional party, huh? We got nearly a million and a half votes in Ontario! You might even have been surprised at what we were pulling in Quebec at the end!

We were a lot less regional than the Chretien Liberals, who had essentially zip outside of Ontario and Quebec.

Why do you think the PC's finally gave up? They were clinging to life with a few seats in Atlantic Canada and the trend showed that within an election or two they were going to lose even that.

Smallc · September 10, 2008

We were a lot less regional than the Chretien Liberals, who had essentially zip outside of Ontario and Quebec.

If you don't count BC,Winnipeg, Edmonton, Regina, the North, or the Maritimes.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Smallc

nbguyca · September 11, 2008

Regional party, huh? We got nearly a million and a half votes in Ontario! You might even have been surprised at what we were pulling in Quebec at the end!
We were a lot less regional than the Chretien Liberals, who had essentially zip outside of Ontario and Quebec.

Why do you think the PC's finally gave up? They were clinging to life with a few seats in Atlantic Canada and the trend showed that within an election or two they were going to lose even that.

I was talking about the begining of the Reform party and their first election. They were a regional party at that time.

Ontario Loyalist · September 11, 2008

I was talking about the begining of the Reform party and their first election. They were a regional party at that time.

They were always a regional party. They were just trying to get more votes and seats and therefore more power. The Conservatives are still largely a regional party, hence Harper's extolling the fact that the West was "finally in" when they won in 2006.

Ontario Loyalist · September 11, 2008

Regional party, huh? We got nearly a million and a half votes in Ontario! You might even have been surprised at what we were pulling in Quebec at the end!
We were a lot less regional than the Chretien Liberals, who had essentially zip outside of Ontario and Quebec.

Why do you think the PC's finally gave up? They were clinging to life with a few seats in Atlantic Canada and the trend showed that within an election or two they were going to lose even that.

Interestingly, though, the Conservatives are not doing all that well in the Maritimes nowadays, so I'm guessing that the Conservative's western-style conservativism has worn thin. I'm wondering how many Progressive Canadian candidates will be running in the Maritimes, if any...?

Wild Bill · September 11, 2008

If you don't count BC,Winnipeg, Edmonton, Regina, the North, or the Maritimes.

Having ONE MP or so in each of the regions you mentioned is hardly coast to coast representation. It's more like a statistical anomaly.

It's like a lawyer's answer, technically correct by the letter of the law and often totally lacking in its spirit.

Shakeyhands · September 11, 2008

It's like a lawyer's answer, technically correct by the letter of the law and often totally lacking in its spirit.

Hilarious.... Kinda like dissolving your own government after passing a law?

Smallc · September 11, 2008

Having ONE MP or so in each of the regions you mentioned is hardly coast to coast representation. It's more like a statistical anomaly.
It's like a lawyer's answer, technically correct by the letter of the law and often totally lacking in its spirit.

IS that like having just over 1M votes in a region with 7M or so voters?

Argus · September 11, 2008

I'm not sure why he accepted, but he's invited because there are English speakers who vote for him.

There are probably more people voting for the Marxist Leninst party than Anglos voting for Duceppe.

Argus · September 11, 2008

First of all, I would hardly call them a fringe party. They get near double figures in the polls. They have a sitting (if crooked) MP

Eighty percent of those who say they like Greens are young people who will be too busy trying to get to the seventy third level of their favorite video game to go out and vote anyway.

M.Dancer · September 11, 2008

Eighty percent of those who say they like Greens are young people who will be too busy trying to get to the seventy third level of their favorite video game to go out and vote anyway.

I know more that a handful of anglos who will vcote for the bloc, and none who will vote for the M-L party. They vote for the Bloc for the same reason many people vote for their choice. Because they believe that the Bloc is best able to represent then in Otttawa. And given that during the past years of Liberal rule many Quebecers felt no attachment to the Liberals, that isn't surprising.

Argus · September 11, 2008

They were always a regional party. They were just trying to get more votes and seats and therefore more power. The Conservatives are still largely a regional party, hence Harper's extolling the fact that the West was "finally in" when they won in 2006.

How are the Conservatives a regional party? Are you saying there are no conservatives in Ontario? Oh wait, to you, Ontario consists of the city of Toronto, right. Everything outside that is labelled "Scary people" on your little mental map.