jbg Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 UK is on the other side of the ocean and exercises no economical influence over our country. Our link is a thing of the past... let's move on.Language, culture and history count for nothing? What makes the ties to the U.S. so thick is the common English heritage. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 I'm getting a feeling that Trudeau shouldn't have wrote the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.. The nation deserves something better - wait till someone can come around and do it right! Now are we stuck with this? Or is anyone going to do anything about it I am an American lawyer. Frankly, I have rarely seen such a poorly written document. It's a poor excuse for swiss cheese in terms of it's porosity. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
whowhere Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 Just ask Gough Whitlam (link) about that. Excerpt below: On Tuesday November 11th, 1975, the Governor-General of Australia, Sir John Kerr, dismissed Mr Gough Whitlam as Prime Minister and appointed Mr Malcolm Fraser as a caretaker Prime Minister. The dismissal was the most dramatic event in the history of the Australian federation. For the first time, an unelected vice-regal representative had removed from office a government which commanded a majority in the House of Representatives. A Double Dissolution election was held on December 13th, 1975, at which the Whitlam Government was soundly defeated. The dismissal of the Whitlam Labor Government was the culmination of a series of dramatic events which began in October, 1975 with the refusal by the Senate to pass the government's budget bills. Queen dissenters should digest this action by the Govenor General of Australia. What has to be understood is English law is one of precendents. If it has been done, it can be done again. If you have issue with it, the matter has to be escalated to a higher court. Incidently, there is no higher court than the Queen. Her judgement is final and that is what makes her the sovereign of the Commonwealth period. If the Governor General who acts on behalf of the Queen was able to dismiss the PM in Australia, the Governor General can certainly here in Canada also dimiss the PM. That is the English Law of Precedents in Action. Now of course, there are those who think the Canada is somehow theirs because they are here and are able to flap their yap on the matter. Somehow they think they can parachute into Canada from whatever Country and beleive a population majority of people will change the fact the queen own's Canada and all its land. What event has changed that fact?? From the Seven year war that lost Quebec/Canada to the British, the American Independance fight, the havoc wreaked by Napoleon on Europe, and the war of 1812 where the British (NOT CANADIANS) defended Canada from the United States there was immense deaths and bloodshed because of Canada. That was the price for Canada. Those of Quebec/Canada, English Canada, the United States and Britain have evolved to where we are at. That is the history, and it will not and cannot be erased by the revisonists no matter how hard they try. Canada is only 30 million people. In todays global world, the next logical step is for Canada to be subordinated to the European Union. Canada can go about it willingly or the Queen Can do it Unilaterally. If this is done Constitution talk is irrelevant and Quebec sovereignty/separation becomes a moot point. Quote Job 40 (King James Version) 11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. 12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. 13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
jbg Posted October 8, 2008 Report Posted October 8, 2008 The English royalties should consider themselves very lucky - their ancestor heads weren't chopped off as their French cousins Ask King Charles about that. The 1640's weren't kind to him. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 The point is somehow I knew something about it even though I:Am not Canadian; and Know little or nothing about Canada. I assumed it must be common knowledge. Well, to an educated mind, American, Canadian, British, French histories are all pretty "common knowledge". It just depends how in-depth you go with it. Quote
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I am an American lawyer. Frankly, I have rarely seen such a poorly written document. It's a poor excuse for swiss cheese in terms of it's porosity. Yes, and he gets all the credit for doing something so great.. He should have left it alone, hes only making things worse Quote
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Alta, I am not sure where you live and what people you interact with.I live and work in TO and every day interact with people who immigrated or are the first generation of Canadians born to immigrants from different countries. There have been instances when the floor (of a Canadian bank building) was almost completely Chinese or Indo-Chinese. There are so many immigrants from all parts of the world that I'm noticing that whites are the minority, let alone Canadians with Canadian ancestry. What you said may be true for some part of the population but in metropolitan cities you feel like being Canadian is being part of a nation formed of all of the world's nations. This is why the English queen is a symbol that does not represent what Canada is becoming as a nation. Multi-race, multi-etnicity, multi-culturalism, multi-lingualism are the new traits defining our country. They are still Canadian and should be considered Canadian first they should have pride for immigrating and become part of our rich history, but this is just not the case because understanding what it is to be Canadian is not part of the immigration process, so what happens is they bring their entire set of traditions from their country and relate that to being Canadian. This just isn't the case, some of that should be left behind, and the good parts of the tradition be absorbed into Canadian culture. Without the ability to do this we just import the problems. Trudeau was a fool. I too interact with people who are first generation Canadians and I welcome them. What are we if we don't know where our country and culter comes from and how do we know where we are going. The multiculter platitues are just an empty shell. Why do you this immigrants are always something eles first and Canadian second? Chinese Canadian, Dutch Canadian, ect. not Canadian - Chinese, Canadian-Dutch, ect? We have really lost something and if you look around Canadian cities you will find that these groups segrate themselves in areas of the cities. This is not multi-culteralism, it is self imposed segragation. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I'm OK with state owning the land as long as it's OUR state and not UK or their monarch. So would you like the state to take away your home its within their right. If you study British History you would find that the monarch could take land from its citizens this is the History of British Common and this all started with the Magna Carta. What is it that scares you about having the right to own property and the government not having the right to take it away from an act of parliment. In this country we are one house of commons vote and one senate vote on a bill that nationalizes all property. In other words everything you have worked for can be taken away from you in a instant, and be left with nothing but want the state determines it will provide you with. To me this is a very scary prospect. I think you should go and read a little on the founding documents of this country and the history of British common law, you would come away very surprised at what you will find. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Loyal to the people, loyal to the country Do you not get that the Monarch is the symbol of this? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 How is she our "master"? You don't even have to bow down to her if you didn't want to bow.. If the PM becomes head of state, how is he less "master" than the queen is? Every country has a head of state. Look, the PM takes care of Canada. The fact that he is not head of state makes the prime minister more leveled with the people than a president would. I now realize I may be missing some fundamental knowledge about how is a president different than a prime ministers. Can you lay it out for me (in simple terms)? Thank you! Oh, and how about the countries that have a President and a PM? How does that work out? Quote You are what you do.
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Not loyal to symbols of subjugation, "God-given" masters, colonialism and slavery. Do you not realize that it was the British who were the first to free the slaves, condem it, and fight it? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 She is involved with our country so when some jackass comes around and tries to do something "unconstitutional" or something of major harm to the country - the queen can veto his/her decisions. For example, what if Bush was the prime minister, and he wanted to start a war with Iraq against the wishes of the UN. The queen can veto his decisions. However, he is the president, no one has higher authority - who is to stop him? I guess my problem is then with her qualification to hold such power. Divine right? Hmmm... Sounds ridiculous in the 21st century, doesn't it? Quote You are what you do.
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 The constitution should be written by the people for the people. If it is not - it should be re-written.The queen is the personification of how stateless we are - a foreign ruler owns our land... The queen does not own our land, and the monarch did not write our constitution our constitution was given to us by the British parliment, we have molded it and shaped it ourselves. Did you know that we could end up with a different successor to the Canadian throne than the British? When the British changed their sucession laws we did not. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Then why is she involved? It's ridiculous... No its tradition and its our Canadian tradition, why can't you accept this? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 Well, you could go live in Afghanistan, then. I'd rather than that you bring the current Afghani way of life here. LOL And you can go back to the dark ages and bow to everyone the law requires you to (or have your head removed) Quote You are what you do.
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 They are still Canadian and should be considered Canadian first they should have pride for immigrating and become part of our rich history, but this is just not the case because understanding what it is to be Canadian is not part of the immigration process, so what happens is they bring their entire set of traditions from their country and relate that to being Canadian. This just isn't the case, some of that should be left behind, and the good parts of the tradition be absorbed into Canadian culture. Without the ability to do this we just import the problems. Trudeau was a fool. I too interact with people who are first generation Canadians and I welcome them. What are we if we don't know where our country and culter comes from and how do we know where we are going. The multiculter platitues are just an empty shell. Why do you this immigrants are always something eles first and Canadian second? Chinese Canadian, Dutch Canadian, ect. not Canadian - Chinese, Canadian-Dutch, ect?We have really lost something and if you look around Canadian cities you will find that these groups segrate themselves in areas of the cities. This is not multi-culteralism, it is self imposed segragation. I agree completely and wholeheartedly. Dief the Chief once had a vision of what Canada should be like: "I am the first prime minister of this country of neither altogether English or French origin. So I determined to bring about a Canadian citizenship that knew no hyphenated consideration....I'm very happy to be able to say that in the House of Commons today in my party we have members of Italian, Dutch, German, Scandinavian, Chinese and Ukrainian origin -- and they are all Canadians." -- John Diefenbaker, March 29, 1958 The only way we can unite as a county is if everybody drops their "nationalities" dictated by their ancestors. You don't get to choose where you were born. However, you were able to choose to live on this great land under this great nation - be proud that you are here. You don't come to Canada to live off of our institutions and free health care, you come here to be Canadian. If you looked at the colour of my skin, or the colour of my hair, you could say that I come from a Chinese background. Raised and educated in this country since the tender age of 3, I have been Canadian all my life. Chinese by birth and Canadian by choice. I do not consider myself a "Chinese-Canadian", I am just a Canadian. Quote
tango Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) Why do you this immigrants are always something eles first and Canadian second? Chinese Canadian, Dutch Canadian, ect. not Canadian - Chinese, Canadian-Dutch, ect? Because they are xxx (adjective)-Canadian (noun) And I'm happily Irish-Canadian. My family has been since 1847. But I live in an Italian-Canadian area, which is fast dispersing. Give it a rest, already. Integration into Canadian life takes time, sometimes a generation. Always has. Your ancestors did too. There are a lot of generalized anti-immigrant slurs in your comments. Perhaps your family had to endure that too. Which wave of immigration is your family from? wiki_Immigration_to_Canada Edited October 9, 2008 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 I guess my problem is then with her qualification to hold such power.Divine right? Hmmm... Sounds ridiculous in the 21st century, doesn't it? Read about the Magna Carta Quote
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 LOL And you can go back to the dark ages and bow to everyone the law requires you to (or have your head removed) You don't have to bow to the queen Quote
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 They are still Canadian and should be considered Canadian first they should have pride for immigrating and become part of our rich history, but this is just not the case because understanding what it is to be Canadian is not part of the immigration process, so what happens is they bring their entire set of traditions from their country and relate that to being Canadian. This just isn't the case, some of that should be left behind, and the good parts of the tradition be absorbed into Canadian culture. Without the ability to do this we just import the problems. Trudeau was a fool. I too interact with people who are first generation Canadians and I welcome them. What are we if we don't know where our country and culter comes from and how do we know where we are going. The multiculter platitues are just an empty shell. Why do you this immigrants are always something eles first and Canadian second? Chinese Canadian, Dutch Canadian, ect. not Canadian - Chinese, Canadian-Dutch, ect?We have really lost something and if you look around Canadian cities you will find that these groups segrate themselves in areas of the cities. This is not multi-culteralism, it is self imposed segragation. When I was at the Citizenship ceremony and swore allegiance to the queen there were some words said by the person that was taking out oaths. A part of their speech was as follows (or close to it): keep your languages and your cultures, contribute to your communities. It definitely sounded like the Liberals or the Queen or both were ASKING us not to dissolve in the Canadian mass but preserve our ethnic identities. I'm not sure if the Canadians born here realize that... Quote You are what you do.
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) So would you like the state to take away your home its within their right. If you study British History you would find that the monarch could take land from its citizens this is the History of British Common and this all started with the Magna Carta. What is it that scares you about having the right to own property and the government not having the right to take it away from an act of parliment. In this country we are one house of commons vote and one senate vote on a bill that nationalizes all property. In other words everything you have worked for can be taken away from you in a instant, and be left with nothing but want the state determines it will provide you with. To me this is a very scary prospect. I think you should go and read a little on the founding documents of this country and the history of British common law, you would come away very surprised at what you will find. My state owning my land - that's Socialism. Foreign ruler owning my land - that's Colonialism and Monarchy. I'm pretty sure Socialism is way ahead of Monarchy. Edited October 9, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen Quote You are what you do.
g_bambino Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) And you can go back to the dark ages and bow to everyone the law requires you to (or have your head removed. No, no; you're confused again. It was you who wanted to be loyal to rocks and dirt, like in Afghanistan. You'll find life there quite like the Dark Ages too. If you don't act like it, you might just get your head removed, too. Edited October 9, 2008 by g_bambino Quote
PoliticalCitizen Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Posted October 9, 2008 Do you not get that the Monarch is the symbol of this? Foreign Monarch is both a symbol of usurping the people and disowning the country. Quote You are what you do.
g_bambino Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 Read about the Magna Carta He really needs to read more than that. If he can read, that is... Quote
Hcheh Posted October 9, 2008 Report Posted October 9, 2008 When I was at the Citizenship ceremony and swore allegiance to the queen there were some words said by the person that was taking out oaths. A part of their speech was as follows (or close to it): keep your languages and your cultures, contribute to your communities.It definitely sounded like the Liberals or the Queen or both were ASKING us not to dissolve in the Canadian mass but preserve our ethnic identities. I'm not sure if the Canadians born here realize that... Why shouldn't you be able to keep your language and knowledge of your cultures? You can keep your languages and the knowledge of your culture.. However, Canada comes first. One of the responsibilities of a Canadian citizen is to protect the Canadian heritage. Quote
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