Harper's Arctic Policy: "use it or lose it"

[Ontario Loyalist]

For all those concerned about the environment this is nothing short of diabolical; we need to be protecting the North, not exploiting it. And that he can boil it down to such an inane cliche!

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?category=1&id=2242

[Wilber]

Let the Americans, Ruskies and Danes have it, we have the oil sands.

[M.Dancer]

There is zero need to have it if it isn't used.

This will in one move reinforce our nothern claim and provide needed job for the people of the north and incentive for investment in the north.

If the North is to be a park, then give it to Denmark.

[madmax]

There is zero need to have it if it isn't used.

This will in one move reinforce our nothern claim and provide needed job for the people of the north and incentive for investment in the north.

If the North is to be a park, then give it to Denmark.

Perhaps there is a smaller park nearer to where you live to give to Denmark? It is a small country.

[M.Dancer]

Perhaps there is a smaller park nearer to where you live to give to Denmark? It is a small country.

Well, there is this parkette...

[Topaz]

Harper can't do anything with the north if he doesn't have the ships to patrol and since he cut the Navy and Coast Guard budgets, good luck!

[Ontario Loyalist]

Let the Americans, Ruskies and Danes have it, we have the oil sands.

Ruskies? You actually wouldn't mind them possessing parts of continental North America? That's crazy.

[Fortunata]

Harper can't do anything with the north if he doesn't have the ships to patrol and since he cut the Navy and Coast Guard budgets, good luck!

Twice cut you mean. First off he reneged on his promised ice breakers and downsized them to patrol ships and now not even that. He's playing political games hoping that it will get him through this coming elections.

[Wilber]

Ruskies? You actually wouldn't mind them possessing parts of continental North America? That's crazy.

No, I'd prefer the Yanks and Danes.

[WIP]

There is zero need to have it if it isn't used.

This will in one move reinforce our nothern claim and provide needed job for the people of the north and incentive for investment in the north.

If the North is to be a park, then give it to Denmark.

If it was just a matter of opening a few mines to pay for naval operations to keep foreign ships out that would be one thing, but this blockhead is talking about a wholesale exploitation of resources in an area where the permafrost is already melting, dumping its stores of sequestered CO2 and methane into the atmosphere:

“We know from over a century of northern resource exploration that there is gas in the Beaufort, oil in the Eastern Arctic, and gold in the Yukon. There are diamonds in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, and countless other precious resources buried under the ice, sea and tundra,” said the Prime Minister. “But what we’ve found so far is merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Managed properly, Canada’s share of this incredible endowment will fuel the prosperity of our country for generations. And geo-mapping will pave the way for the resource development of the future.”

There have already been a number of alarming reports about the rapid melting of permafrost in Siberia and Alaska; Harper's plan would start the same environmental degradation in the Eastern Arctic.

[Wilber]

There have already been a number of alarming reports about the rapid melting of permafrost in Siberia and Alaska; Harper's plan would start the same environmental degradation in the Eastern Arctic.

How so?

[WIP]

How so?

That should be obvious! You're going to move men and equipment in for large scale mining and oil development in an area sitting on permafrost; the more people who move in, the more developments, the greater the impact on the environment.

[M.Dancer]

That should be obvious! You're going to move men and equipment in for large scale mining and oil development in an area sitting on permafrost; the more people who move in, the more developments, the greater the impact on the environment.

Then there is no point to having the arctic.....it's not like it's your grandmothers china to keep in the cabinet to look at. Let loose the investments and let people work.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Then there is no point to having the arctic.....it's not like it's your grandmothers china to keep in the cabinet to look at. Let loose the investments and let people work.

Sorry, but I think anyone nowadays who views an ecosystem only in terms of potential monetary value is pretty out of touch. The Arctic has a global significance in an untouched state that is now undeniable. Enough has been done to it as it is.

[WIP]

Then there is no point to having the arctic.....it's not like it's your grandmothers china to keep in the cabinet to look at. Let loose the investments and let people work.

Well, we may not live to see the day, but wouldn't you rather try to ensure the survival of future generations (at least long enough till space colonization is viable), than to feed the present cycle of over-population and plundering resources that's sending the planet into a major extinction event that just might take the human race as well?:

By Seth Borenstein, The Associated PressWASHINGTON — New research is raising concerns that global warming may be triggering a self-perpetuating climate time bomb trapped in once-frozen permafrost.As the Earth warms, greenhouse gases once stuck in the long-frozen soil are bubbling into the atmosphere in much larger amounts than previously anticipated, according to a study in Thursday's journal Nature.Methane trapped in a special type of permafrost is bubbling up at a rate five times faster than originally measured, the journal said.

The melting permafrost is releasing trapped methane and CO2 that has been locked in since the last Ice Age. If temperatures in the Arctic keep increasing, the more permafrost will melt, and the more they will add to atmospheric CO2 and methane levels regardless of what else is happening with human-produced emissions. This is the kind of positive feedback loop that climatologists fear the most, because there is no way to know how high greenhouse gas levels will rise in the future.

The Arctic should be viewed as something more than a playground for oil and other resource companies to go hog wild and exploit for profit, without any regard for the environmental consequences.

[M.Dancer]

Sorry, but I think anyone nowadays who views an ecosystem only in terms of potential monetary value is pretty out of touch. The Arctic has a global significance in an untouched state that is now undeniable. Enough has been done to it as it is.

I think the days of letting the arctic go to pot are over. As it is, poverty and boredom are killing people up there.

If what we want is a untouched eden, sell it to someone who doesn't want to do anything with it.

Preferably on ebay

[M.Dancer]

The Arctic should be viewed as something more than a playground for oil and other resource companies to go hog wild and exploit for profit, without any regard for the environmental consequences.

Exactly. There is always whale and seal harvesting and social welfare offices.....

[Moonbox]

There is zero need to have it if it isn't used.

This will in one move reinforce our nothern claim and provide needed job for the people of the north and incentive for investment in the north.

If the North is to be a park, then give it to Denmark.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Why are we claiming the North if we're not going to develop it? Nobody lives there, and it WILL be developed, whether the eco-pandas like it or not. It had better be us instead of the Russians, Americans or Danes.

Use it or lose it

[M.Dancer]

It is certainly one thing to say that development in the far north should have special environmental safegaurds and oversight but quite another to say no development at all. As far as saying no to progress, it is a non starter and needs no further debate but instead an apology why condemning the residents of the north to poverty and marginalization is desirable to decent standard of living.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Why are we claiming the North if we're not going to develop it? Nobody lives there, and it WILL be developed, whether the eco-pandas like it or not. It had better be us instead of the Russians, Americans or Danes.

Use it or lose it

Yeah, but it is being used, just not in the crassly and short-sighted manner in which Steve and all the other neo-cons would like.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Ontario Loyalist

[M.Dancer]

Neo con?

Since when is wanting investment to develop industry that will benefit arctic communities and all canadians a neo con thing?

I suppose the Paleo Luddites will oppose everything in the north except glue sniffing, starvation and cannibalism...

[capricorn]

Sorry, but I think anyone nowadays who views an ecosystem only in terms of potential monetary value is pretty out of touch. The Arctic has a global significance in an untouched state that is now undeniable. Enough has been done to it as it is.

All this eco-friendly talk about protecting the pristine nature of the Arctic will mean squat if the Russians or any others move into the area unchallenged and begin probing for resources. The Russian flag flying over the Arctic will not be to protect it as a gift to humankind.

Harper has struck a chord with those Canadians who truly want to protect the sovereignty of our land. You know, we send our bravest to fight the good fight in other lands, well now it's on our turf and the government has a duty to protect what is ours.

[jdobbin]

Harper has struck a chord with those Canadians who truly want to protect the sovereignty of our land. You know, we send our bravest to fight the good fight in other lands, well now it's on our turf and the government has a duty to protect what is ours.

As far as policy goes, I have no problem with mapping what is there. It will be another thing to exploit those resources or to trumpet them as a sovereignty measure. That is some time in the future.

The Tories are hoping this is going to give them a bump in the polls but the previous two visits didn't do anything like that. In fact, some people were let down by the slushbreakers rather than icebreakers announcement.

[Ontario Loyalist]

All this eco-friendly talk about protecting the pristine nature of the Arctic will mean squat if the Russians or any others move into the area unchallenged and begin probing for resources. The Russian flag flying over the Arctic will not be to protect it as a gift to humankind.

Harper has struck a chord with those Canadians who truly want to protect the sovereignty of our land. You know, we send our bravest to fight the good fight in other lands, well now it's on our turf and the government has a duty to protect what is ours.

So if we start drilling and mining this will magically cause an invisible barrier to form around the arctic that is impervious to Russian aggression?!?! Hmmm... that's interesting.

As far as I'm concerned, if we go up there exploring and writing reports about the findings, we're potentially fuelling their desire for control of the region.

[AngusThermopyle]

As far as I'm concerned, if we go up there exploring and writing reports about the findings, we're potentially fuelling their desire for control of the region.

You're right! Unassailable logic!

Lets just pretend we've never heard of the place, that way Russia will have no desire to develop it.