Liberals In Trouble

August1991 · March 16, 2004

I ofen hear about the so-called extortion of Quebec which threatens separation as a means to get a bigger share of the pie.

I think this is the true extortion Canada has endured for about 30 years or so.

Martin attacked suggestions from the Bloc and the Conservatives they might be able to work in tandem to defeat the Liberals if a federal election produces no clear governing majority in the House of Commons.
"I suspect that anybody that would contemplate voting Conservative in the rest of the country will think twice if they hear that kind of thing," the prime minister told reporters in Montreal on Sunday.

Such arrogance. Only the Liberals can save Canada.

See the article here.

Canwest Liberals

August1991 · March 20, 2004

All of this could be said about Martin. He too was there. His answers would probably be the same.

Conservative MP and committee chairman John Williams said he is frustrated with Mr. Gagliano's failure to provide comprehensive answers to Parliament and with his refusal to accept ministerial responsibility. In one of the many confrontational exchanges that punctuated the hearing, Liberal MP Shawn Murphy said Mr. Gagliano was coming off in a most unflattering way.
"What you're setting up, sir, is you're inviting this committee — in fact, you're compelling the committee — to find that you were extremely incompetent," Mr. Murphy said.

Conservative MP Diane Ablonczy bluntly told Mr. Gagliano: "The only thing we've heard from you so far is that you know nothing, that you weren't really in charge, that you were just there, I guess. I don't know why you were drawing a salary."

Read the Globe report here:

G&M Gagliano

August1991 · March 25, 2004

IMV, this article describes well this federal Liberal scandal. Is it really Martin's fault?

Bedard may well be wrong about details. But is she basically right? (Or is Bedard a BQ plant?)

Myriam Bedard, an Olympic medallist and fired Via Rail employee, claimed Formula One racer Jacques Villeneuve was paid $12 million US to wear a Canadian logo on his uniform.

Check it out here:

CTV Villeneuve Sponsorship Flag

I liked the Villenueve/Monaco and the Robert Guy Scully connections. This scandal is getting more fun!

maplesyrup · March 25, 2004

IMV, this article describes well this federal Liberal scandal. Is it really Martin's fault?
Bedard may well be wrong about details. But is she basically right? (Or is Bedard a BQ plant?)

Myriam Bedard, an Olympic medallist and fired Via Rail employee, claimed Formula One racer Jacques Villeneuve was paid $12 million US to wear a Canadian logo on his uniform.

Check it out here:

CTV Villeneuve Sponsorship Flag

I liked the Villenueve/Monaco and the Robert Guy Scully connections. This scandal is getting more fun!

Apparently there was no money paid to Jacques Villeneuve from the Canadian government to wear a Canadian logo on his uniform.

Apparently Villenenuve was paid $1.5 million by the Quebec government to wear a Quebec logo.

Bedard said it was rumours.

Will it be the same for the drug accusations?

August1991 · March 25, 2004

I think Martin's rejoinder to Harper during Question Period about Mulroney starting the first National Unity slush fund in 1992 was a tactical error.

Ontario voters are afraid of Harper because they fear he's a right wing, Reform crazy. Martin has just linked Harper to the Tories. In many Ontario ridings, this makes Harper traditional, respectable. And it was Martin that made him seem so.

G&M Martin Quote

August1991 · March 26, 2004

This is great, the Canadian twist to this scandal. Martin says it's wrong and then says it's OK.

Imagine Nixon had said, "we didn't do it" and then said, "well, we did but only because everyone else did." (Only out of office did Nixon try that line.)

Duceppe's take is clear about this slush fund:

"First they said it doesn't exist, then they abolish it ... and now it seems it's normal: `trying to meet the goals by any means,' " said Mr. Duceppe. "They're saying exactly what Chretien said, after [promising] the government culture is changing."

G&M Liberal Slush Flip Flop

August1991 · March 29, 2004

I don't care what the polls say; the Liberals are done for.

I just listened to a French phone-in show and the depth of anger/frustration goes beyond anything I've ever seen before.

(As opposed to people who answer polls, callers follow politics between elections. Once the election is called, the others will either not vote or come around to the same opinion as the callers.)

People will vote for anyone other than Liberals, BQ, Tory, NDP, strategic voting to ensure the Liberal loses. Other than the sponsorship scandal (no longer a scandal; now it's a "dossier"), people cited other scandals and then the "frog bashing" that Martin has gotten into. Many people noted that the BQ was responsible for exposing the sponsorship "dossier".

In all this, I suspect voters in Quebec are no different from voters elsewhere. When all Canadians agree on something, there's something in the wind.

maplesyrup · March 29, 2004

August1991.....was it you who introduced us to the phrase:

Martin is a bad Liberal

You know the Liberal approach to politics over the past 30 years, maybe more, has been to exploit the Quebec crisis.

You know: If you do not vote Liberal, the country will break up.

Charest is there for next few years, so can not use that one, but to win have to have a crisis. Right.

Did you hear the report out today that Canada might be attacked by terrorists during the election period? :rolleyes:

August1991 · March 30, 2004

BTW, MapleSyrup, you'll be happy to know that callers from Chicoutimi and Victoriaville said they'd vote for Layton - even though it may mean "losing their vote". "He grew up in Montreal", one said. "He understands us."

maplesyrup · March 30, 2004

BTW, MapleSyrup, you'll be happy to know that callers from Chicoutimi and Victoriaville said they'd vote for Layton - even though it may mean "losing their vote". "He grew up in Montreal", one said. "He understands us."

I didnt know Jack had relatives in victoriaville & Chicoutimi.

But Martin is from Ontario, I hope Ontararians do not think the same way.

geography can be a bigger factor than we realize.

------------------------------------------------

Where was the emergency?

maplesyrup · March 30, 2004

Just do not understand how this approach will work for Martin.

Chrétien assails Martin in a most diplomatic tone

August1991 · March 31, 2004

The quote is good:

Jean Chrétien's response was typically muted; Martin's is just as typically vocal.

IOW, Martin dramatizes; Chretien put things in their just place. This is an auditor's scandal. The Martin Liberals don't seem to get it. (But it's fun to watch them dog paddle.)

Toronto Star Travers on Liberal Security Incompetence

And a Toronto Star lead, federal columnist says it!

August1991 · April 1, 2004

Thanks MapleSyrup for the link below.

Chantal Hebert has always struck me as a Judy Lamarche type "Quebec" journalist; that is, she has an English Canada following. I prefer Outremont Lysiane Gagnon - or better, Pierre Foglia. (He drives me nuts, in fact, but that's the point of a good columnist, no?)

Chantal Hebert's article describes so well what I think has happened to the Liberal Party:

Toronto Star Hebert

The CBC made a made-for-TV movie about Trudeau which I saw on DVD. Included was a documentary about Trudeau's leadership victory in 1968 with "live" close-ups of PM PM's Dad realizing that he was LOSING to Trudeau. (Paul Martin Senior was Minister of External Affairs at the time.)

Paul Martin Junior is doing the same thing as his Dad - but in slow motion.

To assuage Paul Martin Junior's ego, someone should explain to him that this is Greek theatre at its best.

Canadian scandals? The first was the "Pacific Scandal". The next was the "Customs Scandal". Now, it's the "Sponsorship Scandal".

Gawd, even our scandals are boring - no sex, no bathos and no intricacies.

August1991 · April 3, 2004

What spin!

The people around Paul Martin had long known and were concerned about Mr. Guité, Mr. Mahoney said. Everyone knew that he had worked to procure advertising contracts for Tory-friendly firms when Brian Mulroney was prime minister.

The Ibbitson column is here:

G & M Ibbitson Guite Mulroney connection

This young Mr. Harper should tread carefully.

Trudeau and Mulroney cannot write polemical articles to counter this spin. Is there an ex-Federal Quebec Tory Cabinet member willing to lend a hand and explain that Quebec politics are more honest, heart-felt, transparent and examined than politics anywhere else in North America?

In Quebec, politics matter. René Lévesque raised the benchmark. IME, Quebecers respect elections and referenda. (Gore talked of chads, and then Bush won in the Supreme Court. But separatists in Quebec accepted without quibble their much more devastating loss by some 20,000 votes out of several million cast.)

No people care more about how their State should be involved in determining what their society is than people in Quebec.

Bottom-line? To use a name like Guité, connect it to a name like Mulroney, and somehow imply these names come from Quebec, sorry, this is not nation-building. It is pure nonsense.

There is only one place to put such connections, and assertions.

Goldie · April 3, 2004

I think what the media and the opposition are failing to do, is to say, "Good, we had a program that was sound, given the political atmosphere of the day". At war we were, so they say.

This nobel cause should receive funding and Canadians are ok with that. Provinces spend millions to promote themselves within Canada and this is no problem.

Today I see media and Liberals saying we were at war and breaking the rules was needed. How is this even close to a solution, help me in the Liberal thinking? Our enemies are too popular so lets break rules and give money to our friends. How does this help?

Are ad agencies in Quebec organized to change peoples minds only if they receive extra funds or commissions?

Is this like if you wanted to stop privatization in health care you secretly give millions to the unions? In other words to save health care from privatization you steal $100 million from allocated money and give it to the unions.

Why hasn't the media said this in plain Canadian?

August1991 · April 3, 2004

At war we were, so they say.

Today I see media and Liberals saying we were at war and breaking the rules was needed.

No, you are seeing a Liberal Party that is so desperate to keep POWER, a leader that so desperately wants to protect EGO, that both leader and party are willing to destroy their country.

"Breaking the rules?"

August1991 · April 7, 2004

A Picture is worth a thousand words. Check out this CTV pic. (The CTV article resumes well Martin's "flip-flop" - sorry, his "precision".)

First, the "PMO must have known, I think, but the purpose of the enquiry is to answer such questions".

Second, "If Mr. Pelletier says it was an administrative affair, I'll accept his opinion. The purpose of the enquiry was to find such truths."

CTV Pelletier Testimony

So desperate, now PM PM returns to those he chastized for support. (Pathetic? No, it might work!)

Goldie · April 7, 2004

No I don't think it will work, the sac is without pussy and the toothpaste is without tube, (sorry, I have a problem with cliches). You can't blackball your brethren then reach for the Ivory. Sorry Paul but you aint the saint and I don't buy the conversion.

Also, Paul Martin had to admit stephen Harper is not an extemists in what was the true polical play of the week. This was brought about by the brilliant Question by, I think, Chantel Hebert, while the PM denounced the horrible act of hate In Montreal. He was forced to say, We just have philisophical differences in how to run the country. That's the truth, finally.

August1991 · April 8, 2004

Either Martin is saying nonsense or the journalists are deaf or, Martin just doesn't know how to get his message out. I'd go for the latter. Martin is not good at politics.

The Globe & Mail:

RIMOUSKI—Prime Minister Paul Martin Wednesday defended the Liberal government's campaign tactics in the 1995 Quebec referendum as he tried to stop the sponsorship scandal from breathing new life into the province's separatist movement.
"Clearly our country was at risk. And I don't think that one bends the rules, and I don't think one has to bend the rules. But the fact is that we were going to win that battle," he said in La Pocatière, Que., adding Ottawa should not apologize.

G & M Martin in Quebec

The Toronto Star:

RIMOUSKI—Prime Minister Paul Martin yesterday made it clear that he thought the Chrétien government's strategy of waving the Canadian flag in Quebec before, during and after the 1995 referendum was a mistake.

Toronto Star Martin in Quebec

"There's absolutely no contradiction at all," Martin said. "The fact is the statements are perfectly consistent - but more importantly, I don't have all the facts."

Sun chain

maplesyrup · April 8, 2004

Internal Liberals wars doing more damage than opposition, except in Quebec. Martin is now having a raprochement with Chretien forces.

August1991 · April 9, 2004

Tory newspaper guys (Coyne, Wells) seem to think that Martin is now desperately backtracking. He is now advised to make amends - Coyne suggested (jokingly) that Pelletier will be rehired!

But on the French web forums, there is discussion of a very fundamental point. These guys (the Crowns, as Martin says) stole money from taxpayers and are now suing taxpayers for more money. WTF?

I disagree with Coyne. There is no plan, Martin is not backtracking, or making amends with Chretienites. Martin is making this up as he goes along. Martin is basically incompetent. He's about to change the election date to the fall.

Martin's another ADD Desmarais protege - like Maurice Strong.

maplesyrup · April 9, 2004

I actually think we are at least a year away from the election. Right now Martin is just about done like dinner.

Now the fun is about to begin.

maplesyrup · April 9, 2004

Tory polling shows party neck and neck with Liberals

Belief growing Harper could lead minority or squeak to slim majority, sources say
By BRIAN LAGHI

Friday, April 9, 2004 - Page A4

OTTAWA -- Stephen Harper is having a hard time staying underrated.

Three weeks after taking the helm of the new party, talk of a new internal poll has made Conservative MPs more buoyant about the future than they have been in a decade, and that's not necessarily the best news for a leader whose fortunes have risen on consistently being taken too lightly.

Sources told The Globe and Mail that the survey, done by party pollster Praxicus Public Strategies, shows the Conservatives almost neck and neck with the federal Liberals outside of Quebec. According to the poll, the Grits have the support of 32 per cent of the voting public outside the province, with the Conservatives running about a percentage point behind.

News of the poll tore through the party this week, leading some MPs to conclude that the Conservatives will hold the Liberals to a bare minority, and maybe even form a minority themselves after the next election.

"People are openly musing about it may be a minority government, but who would be the minority government?" long-time MP Chuck Strahl asked.

"I think that's still a modest expectation, but it's well within reality. It's not so grandiose that it makes you look cocky. It's just a confluence of things that are happening."

According to sources, party pollster Dimitri Pantazopolous told the caucus last week that an increasing portion of Ontario voters have switched from the Liberal Party to the undecided category.

One MP told The Globe yesterday that members have started talking about winning between 15 and 50 seats in Ontario, depending on how the campaign goes. With the Liberals in trouble in Quebec, a group of MPs made their own best-case scenario projections about a week ago, and came up with a prediction of 120 Liberals, 117 Conservatives, 20 New Democrats and 51 MPs from the Bloc Québécois.

Now the real fun begins.

Election this year. I doubt it.

August1991 · April 9, 2004

Thanks for the G&M link, MapleSyrup:

According to sources, party pollster Dimitri Pantazopolous told the caucus last week that an increasing portion of Ontario voters have switched from the Liberal Party to the undecided category.

The key to the next election is what Ontario voters do. In the past, they have voted for the party with "national" support (ie. support in Quebec).

I think this election will be different. Furthermore, I think people are making a "hard" decision. They will not change their minds later.

maplesyrup · April 10, 2004

August1991......do you remember all the buzz as Martin was approaching his coronation. Pundits were suggesting over 200 seats for Mr Democratic Deficit.