Trucker fined $500 for failing roadside English test

[CANADIEN]

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/463496

Manuel Castillo drove through Alabama in a truck filled with onions and left with a $500 ticket for something he didn't think he was doing: speaking English poorly.

This being the U.S., it is perfectly logical that drivers' licenses tests would be in English. But this? Even the Quebec Government has not come with something that ridiculous.

The man speaks enough English to explain where he is going and what he is doing, and he must has passed a drivers' license test at some point.

[Leafless]

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/463496

This being the U.S., it is perfectly logical that drivers' licenses tests would be in English. But this? Even the Quebec Government has not come with something that ridiculous.

I was driving in hilly, winding mountain roads in Quebec and came across many signs indicating some sort of dangerous road conditions all posted in the French language.

This is another indication how stupid the minority official French language is in Quebec.

As if everyone visiting from Canada or the U.S., or even living in Quebec is supposed to understand an obsolete regional French language highway signs posted in French only.

The federal government has an obligation to help save lives the lives of Canadians and Americans if Quebec is part of Canada and force Quebec to respect the majority English de facto language of the U.S. and Canada.

The man speaks enough English to explain where he is going and what he is doing, and he must has passed a drivers' license test at some point.

The English language was made official by 88% of the population in Alabama and extends to the language used to pass the state drivers test.

He speaks, by his own admission, speaks English at only a grade 3 level.

Actually Alabama is helping preserve his life and the lives of others.

[CANADIEN]

I was driving in hilly, winding mountain roads in Quebec and came across many signs indicating some sort of dangerous road conditions all posted in the French language.

This is another indication how stupid the minority official French language is in Quebec.

As if everyone visiting from Canada or the U.S., or even living in Quebec is supposed to understand an obsolete regional French language highway signs posted in French only.

The federal government has an obligation to help save lives the lives of Canadians and Americans if Quebec is part of Canada and force Quebec to respect the majority English de facto language of the U.S. and Canada.

Why shoud I be surprised that you cannot understand the pictograms on the signs? BTW, road signage is a provincial, not federal, responsibility. Get your facts straight.

The English language was made official by 88% of the population in Alabama and extends to the language used to pass the state drivers test.

This driver passed his.

He speaks, by his own admission, speaks English at only a grade 3 level.

He speaks enough English to have passed a drviers' test, to have kept his licence for 20 years, and to respond to basic questions about what he was doing. BTW, he was ticketted under a FEDERAL law. Get your facts straight.

Edited July 19, 2008 by CANADIEN

[M.Dancer]

I was driving in hilly, winding mountain roads in Quebec and came across many signs indicating some sort of dangerous road conditions all posted in the French language.

This is another indication how stupid the minority official French language is in Quebec.

All Highway signs are iconic so even foreign halfwits can understand them. Exactly how difficult were they for you?

[Wilber]

Why not go to European signage which just uses symbols?

[CANADIEN]

Why not go to European signage which just uses symbols?

Not a bad idea... but then leafless will complain that there is no English on it.

[Leafless]

All Highway signs are iconic so even foreign halfwits can understand them. Exactly how difficult were they for you?

All highway signs are iconic.

End of discussion.

Your wife and children have my deepest sympathy.

[CANADIEN]

All highway signs are iconic.

End of discussion.

Your wife and children have my deepest sympathy.

So what was so different about the icons on Quebec highway signs that you could not understand them? Too bad though you decided to close the discussion, as I was about to write my argument in favour of bilingual highway signs in Quebec.

[Guest American Woman]

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/463496

This being the U.S., it is perfectly logical that drivers' licenses tests would be in English. But this? Even the Quebec Government has not come with something that ridiculous.

The man speaks enough English to explain where he is going and what he is doing, and he must has passed a drivers' license test at some point.

Being able to 'read' another language and being able to converse in it are two different things. Drivers license tests are multiple choice, not essay. One could pick out enough familiar words to make an educated guess on a mulitple choice test. I can look at foreign words and pretty much guess the meaning of a lot of what I see on the boxes of products I buy, for example, but if nothing were in front of me and someone said 'say this in French or Spanish' I would be totally unable to do so.

He broke federal law, as you pointed out yourself later in this thread, by not being able to speak English well enough to converse with the officer. According to federal law, to have a commercial driver's license, You must be able to read and speak English well enough to read road signs, prepare reports, and communicate with the public and with law enforcement. What's "ridiculous" about that? Seems like a perfectly logical requirement to me. Even according to your post he left with a $500 ticket for something he didn't think he was doing: speaking English poorly. He may not have thought he was speaking English poorly, but that doesn't mean he wasn't. Someone may not think they are intoxicated when they get behind the wheel of a car, but what they think doesn't matter. What matters is the law; and I would think a third grader would have difficulty meeting the requirements I quoted above. You claim the driver spoke English well enough to explain where he is going and what he is doing, but he could have had that memorized. That's not proof that he can converse well in English.

Personally, I see nothing ridiculous about expecting commercial drivers to have to meet the federal requirements.

Edited July 20, 2008 by American Woman

[CANADIEN]

Being able to 'read' another language and being able to converse in it are two different things. Drivers license tests are multiple choice, not essay. One could pick out enough familiar words to make an educated guess on a mulitple choice test. I can look at foreign words and pretty much guess the meaning of a lot of what I see on the boxes of products I buy, for example, but if nothing were in front of me and someone said 'say this in French or Spanish' I would be totally unable to do so.

He broke federal law, as you pointed out yourself later in this thread, by not being able to speak English well enough to converse with the officer. According to federal law, to have a commercial driver's license, You must be able to read and speak English well enough to read road signs, prepare reports, and communicate with the public and with law enforcement. What's "ridiculous" about that? Seems like a perfectly logical requirement to me. Even according to your post he left with a $500 ticket for something he didn't think he was doing: speaking English poorly. He may not have thought he was speaking English poorly, but that doesn't mean he wasn't. Someone may not think they are intoxicated when they get behind the wheel of a car, but what they think doesn't matter. What matters is the law; and I would think a third grader would have difficulty meeting the requirements I quoted above. You claim the driver spoke English well enough to explain where he is going and what he is doing, but he could have had that memorized. That's not proof that he can converse well in English.

Personally, I see nothing ridiculous about expecting commercial drivers to have to meet the federal requirements.

The guy drove for 20 years... He has seen and read hundreds of road signs, and have communicated with other truckers, law enforcement officers and the public. Others must have found is English was good enough for their communication purposes, since he is still driving.

So what it boils down to is the own judgement of a law enforcement officer - another one in the same conversation might have found the driver's English was good enough. Some people will conclude a person's mastery of a given language is good enough if they can count from 1 to 10, while others will settle for nothing less than flawless accent and writing. If language skills are so important, then it is ridiculous to depend on the personal judgement of an officer on the roadsite as a valid language test; have all drivers pass periodic standardized tests measuring the language knowledge needed for the job.

Besides, language skills are needed to pass a written driver's test; what language(s) a person speaks and how well they do has nothing to do with their capacity to drive. Also, drivers of commercial vehicles entering the United States from either Mexico and Canada in order to pick-up/deliver products then return to their country (or travelling between Mexico and Canada) are admitted in the US every day, and American drivers are admitted in Mexico and Quebec every day, and I have never heard of any of them turned back aat the border due to lack of language skills. If foreign drivers do not pose a threat, American drivers do not.

That makes the regulation ridiculous.

[Guest American Woman]

The guy drove for 20 years... He has seen and read hundreds of road signs, and have communicated with other truckers, law enforcement officers and the public. Others must have found is English was good enough for their communication purposes, since he is still driving.

How do you know if he's communicated with other law enforcement officers? If he's never been stopped by the police before, then he's never had to communicate with them before. As for communicating with other truckers, I'm sure he can do that with broken English-- I quoted the federal law requirements, and they go above "communicating with other truckers." It's been explained that one can read/memorize road signs without being able to "communicate" in the language. So your arguments do nothing to refute the federal law.

So what it boils down to is the own judgement of a law enforcement officer - another one in the same conversation might have found the driver's English was good enough. Some people will conclude a person's mastery of a given language is good enough if they can count from 1 to 10

The law makes it clear that anyone with a commercial driver's license has to be able to do more than count from one to ten, not to mention the driver himself said he only speaks at a third grade level. Furthermore, similar judgments are made every day. One judge in a court of law may decide one way, another judge another way. One cop may issue a speeding ticket, another may issue a warning. And so it goes.

....while others will settle for nothing less than flawless accent and writing. If language skills are so important, then it is ridiculous to depend on the personal judgement of an officer on the roadsite as a valid language test; have all drivers pass periodic standardized tests measuring the language knowledge needed for the job.

As I explained above, "personal judgments" are being made daily by people in the position to make such judgments.

Besides, language skills are needed to pass a written driver's test

I already addressed that, so why are you merely repeating what you already stated-- what I already refuted?

what language(s) a person speaks and how well they do has nothing to do with their capacity to drive.

It does, however, have a lot to do with how well they can communicate should a problem arise.

Also, drivers of commercial vehicles entering the United States from either Mexico and Canada in order to pick-up/deliver products then return to their country (or travelling between Mexico and Canada) are admitted in the US every day, and American drivers are admitted in Mexico and Quebec every day, and I have never heard of any of them turned back aat the border due to lack of language skills. If foreign drivers do not pose a threat, American drivers do not.

Unfortunately, that's not for you to decide. When someone is issued a U.S. commercial driver's license, that's totally different from a foreigner driving a limited amount in our country. Our license requirements go by our standards; not yours. The fact that I have a state driver's license and can drive in Canada while visiting has nothing to do with your drivers license requirements; you don't change your requirements based on my state's requirements just because I driver there on occasion, and it would be ridiculous for me to expect you to.

Furthermore, if the drivers of commercial vehicles coming in from Canada and/or Mexico couldn't communicate with the customs' officers, I doubt whether they'd be allowed entry into the country.

That makes the regulation ridiculous.

There's nothing "ridiculous" about it. Makes perfect sense.

[CANADIEN]

How do you know if he's communicated with other law enforcement officers? If he's never been stopped by the police before, then he's never had to communicate with them before. As for communicating with other truckers, I'm sure he can do that with broken English-- I quoted the federal law requirements, and they go above "communicating with other truckers." It's been explained that one can read/memorize road signs without being able to "communicate" in the language. So your arguments do nothing to refute the federal law.

The law makes it clear that anyone with a commercial driver's license has to be able to do more than count from one to ten, not to mention the driver himself said he only speaks at a third grade level. Furthermore, similar judgments are made every day. One judge in a court of law may decide one way, another judge another way. One cop may issue a speeding ticket, another may issue a warning. And so it goes.

As I explained above, "personal judgments" are being made daily by people in the position to make such judgments.

I already addressed that, so why are you merely repeating what you already stated-- what I already refuted?

It does, however, have a lot to do with how well they can communicate should a problem arise.

Unfortunately, that's not for you to decide. When someone is issued a U.S. commercial driver's license, that's totally different from a foreigner driving a limited amount in our country. Our license requirements go by our standards; not yours. The fact that I have a state driver's license and can drive in Canada while visiting has nothing to do with your drivers license requirements; you don't change your requirements based on my state's requirements just because I driver there on occasion, and it would be ridiculous for me to expect you to.

Furthermore, if the drivers of commercial vehicles coming in from Canada and/or Mexico couldn't communicate with the customs' officers, I doubt whether they'd be allowed entry into the country.

There's nothing "ridiculous" about it. Makes perfect sense.

It makes no sense at all, but obviously we will to agree to disagree on this one.

[Leafless]

So what was so different about the icons on Quebec highway signs that you could not understand them? Too bad though you decided to close the discussion, as I was about to write my argument in favour of bilingual highway signs in Quebec.

Who the hell is talking about icons?

That was your invention of the imagination.

There is nothing mentioned in my initial post anything about icons.

Comprehension a little slow CANADIEN? Are highway signs posted as icons the only highway signs you have ever heard of?

[Leafless]

It makes no sense at all, but obviously we will to agree to disagree on this one.

It does make sense as the English language is the undisputed language in the U.S. and laws that require the English language, as ruled by the Supreme Court do not violate anyone's civil rights because federal and state governments and public schools exclusively use the English language.

[BubberMiley]

You can't continue a discussion after you have declared it over.

[CANADIEN]

Who the hell is talking about icons?

That was your invention of the imagination.

There is nothing mentioned in my initial post anything about icons.

Comprehension a little slow CANADIEN? Are highway signs posted as icons the only highway signs you have ever heard of?

You tell me. Here's something you wrote.

All highway signs are iconic.

And I will admit, try to comprehend your drivel is beyond most people's capacity. Including yours.

[CANADIEN]

It does make sense as the English language is the undisputed language in the U.S. and laws that require the English language, as ruled by the Supreme Court do not violate anyone's civil rights because federal and state governments and public schools exclusively use the English language.

Federal and state governments and their agencies do NOT exclusively use the English language.

Examples:

- Hawai recognizes two official languages, English and Hawaian

- In New Mexico, state laws, official documents must be available in English and Spanish

- Publications of the California Department of Motor Vehicles are written in 47 languages

- Questionnaires for the U.S. Census of 2000 were available in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese and Tagalog

- Lousiana recognizes French in state services and the education system

[Leafless]

You tell me. Here's something you wrote.

And I will admit, try to comprehend your drivel is beyond most people's capacity. Including yours.

Your sentence structure and comprehension is comparable to that of an uneducated Mexican.

Here is what you should have quoted:

All highway signs are iconic.

End of discussion.

Your wife and children have my deepest sympathy.

That was a reply to Dancers moronic preceding post in which I was reiterating his laughable iconic sign statement.

I also included personal sentiments directed at his wife and children for being associated with such a domineering, controlling, manipulating individual who exhibits the same traits on this site.

[Leafless]

Federal and state governments and their agencies do NOT exclusively use the English language.

Currently there is no official federal national language.

This is not to be confused with official languages.

The states that have made the English language official do have exclusive use of the English language.

Examples:

- Hawai recognizes two official languages, English and Hawaian

- In New Mexico, state laws, official documents must be available in English and Spanish

- Publications of the California Department of Motor Vehicles are written in 47 languages

- Questionnaires for the U.S. Census of 2000 were available in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese and Tagalog

- Lousiana recognizes French in state services and the education system

States are free to offer language services other than the English language if they wish.

Relating to Hawaii:

Hawaii is part of America and people speak English here. As one of the two official languages, English is the language commonly employed by the state, business, education, and perhaps even the mind.

http://www.alternative-hawaii.com/hacul/language.htm

Alabama was also a previous state that offered documents in many languages.

But Alabama smartened up and designated English as the official language of that state, like so many other states have done.

[madmax]

What matters is the law; and I would think a third grader would have difficulty meeting the requirements I quoted above. You claim the driver spoke English well enough to explain where he is going and what he is doing, but he could have had that memorized. That's not proof that he can converse well in English.

Personally, I see nothing ridiculous about expecting commercial drivers to have to meet the federal requirements.

There are laws that are cracked and this is one of them. It's not usual for someone from the Northern States to be unable to understand a verbal sentence from someone from the southern states. The same is true in reverse.

I can just see it.

Southern Trucker: "Speeeeeddddddddddddinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg TTTTiiiiiiiiccccccccckkkkkkkkket, oooffffffffffffiiiiiccccceeeeeeeeeerrrrrrr?"

Traffic Enforcer: you speak to slow to understand english boy. $500.

[Richie777]

I lived in the States (NC) for two years and while that country may be de facto bilingual, the people don't like it.

I also wonder what would happen if this trucker were involved in an accident and had to call 911! With his English at a grade 3 level, he had better pray for a bilingual operator!