Liberal Hypocrsy in Ottawa

[scribblet]

If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, fortunately for the Liberals Dion isn't giving in to their calls for a snap election. Who wants an election during the summer, Iggy and Rae will have to wait until the Fall.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...mment/Politics/

After the announcement of the General Motors layoffs this week, Stéphane Dion went into a predictable rage, demanding the resignation of Finance Minister Jim Flaherty. The Liberal Leader glared across the aisle at Prime Minister Stephen Harper. "Will he [the PM] learn from his mistakes and dismiss his Finance Minister immediately before he jeopardizes our automobile and manufacturing industries even further?"

Does Mr. Dion really expect the Prime Minister to buy into that kind of talk? "Hey man, good idea, I'll dump him first thing in the morning." Of course, Mr. Harper responded to the vituperative volley with vituperation of his own.

Mr. Dion complained again this week that all the PM and his men do is attack, that their definition of sophisticated leadership is the politics of destruction.

He has a point - until he looks at his own ledger.

The Grits are the great hypocrites on this one. They stand up each and every day in the Commons and with indignant fury berate their opponents with one exaggerated accusation after another. They demand cabinet resignations by the hour. They talk of the need to elevate the tone of the debate while lowering it themselves.

Here was Michael Ignatieff last week on the question of Mad Max Bernier and the missing classified documents. "The government is either incompetent or it is covering up the truth. Which is it?"

This is one of the leading thinkers in the Commons. He makes it onto lists as one of the world's top intellectuals. But like the rest of them, Mr. Ignatieff turns questions into accu-sations and expects an intelligent response.

cont...

[maldon_road]

Talking of hypocrisy didn't Harper run on a campaign of accountability and transparency?

[noahbody]

It's like the boy covered head to toe in shit pointing his finger at the boy with a streak in his underwear.

[Argus]

It's like the boy covered head to toe in shit pointing his finger at the boy with a streak in his underwear.

Very much so. After all, what have the Tories done which even begins to compare to Adscam, or the BDBC scandal, or the massive, billion dollar waste which was the long gun registry, the APEC abuse, or the Somalia inquiry coverup? Not to mention throwing away a half billion dollars by cancelling a needed helicopter contract purely for crass political reasons.

[Shakeyhands]

Very much so. After all, what have the Tories done which even begins to compare to Adscam, or the BDBC scandal, or the massive, billion dollar waste which was the long gun registry, the APEC abuse, or the Somalia inquiry coverup? Not to mention throwing away a half billion dollars by cancelling a needed helicopter contract purely for crass political reasons.

but.. but.. but!!!!!

[maldon_road]

Very much so. After all, what have the Tories done which even begins to compare to Adscam, or the BDBC scandal, or the massive, billion dollar waste which was the long gun registry, the APEC abuse, or the Somalia inquiry coverup? Not to mention throwing away a half billion dollars by cancelling a needed helicopter contract purely for crass political reasons.

It took 13 years for the Libs to "achieve" all this. Let's see what another 11 years of Toryism brings us.

[maldon_road]

Steph, the working man's friend.

Government opposition leaders made visits to the CAW workers on Saturday, but were met with mixed reactions. NDP leader Jack Layton was welcomed and thanked for his support. Liberal Party leader Stephane Dion, however, was accused of taking advantage of the situation for publicity.

DION

[scribblet]

I'm going to put this here rather than another thread, cos it's all pretty much the same stuff lately LOL

If Dion et al don't pay off their loans as required by the June date, will Elections Canada do anything. I bet not, but if they are not paid off it means that if the money is not paid back, they are over their legal spending limits.

[eyeball]

It took 13 years for the Libs to "achieve" all this. Let's see what another 11 years of Toryism brings us.

24 years of the same old shit?

This has been going on at least as long as activists have been kicking over tables in temples. They needed kicking over for pretty much the same reason too, as near as I tell.

[madmax]

I cannot see the Liberals having a clue what to with regards to our loss of industrial capacity.

The current government and previous Liberal and Mulroney governments are facilitators to Canada's de industrialization.

Both parties share the same philosophy and trade policy.

Emerson anyone?

This is an excellent thread title.

Liberal Hypocrsy (sp)

I find it very ironic that the two main political parties espouse the same econonic view. One that Liberals have been preaching since 1867 and Conservatives choose to support shortly into Mulroneys 1st term.

There is NOTHING the Liberals are going to do.

There is NOTHING the Conservative government is going to do.

They have the same answers and none of these answers will make a difference to the manufacturing sector. Which is fine by supporters of LPC and CPC, because they have wanted to support the deindustrialization of the country and allow value added operations performed outside of our country.

This policy is a benefit to manufacturers looking to take advantages of the Labour, Economic, and Environmental conditions of 3rd world countries.

People on these forums, support the transfer of industry and I see them argue the benefits of such actions regularly.

They are Liberal and Conservatives. There is no leadership to challenge the views of these parties and any such talk by the Liberals that they have the magic pill is pure Bullocks and pandering.

They are not going to do anything different, and the NAFTA is proof of that. Typical Liberal Posturing to exploit people who are paying the price for a government trade policy.

But lets look at the real INSTIGATOR. (Yes I think Flaherty is a goof, but that is not where I am going, sorry LPC finger Pointers).

The Japanese decided to go after the large truck market to carve another chunk away from GM,Ford and Chrysler. All manufacturers went after the lucrative truck market, and the Japanese stopped making small trucks.

Unable to make money, and seeing that there prospects were going downhill, they had to make the same choices within the last year as GM.

GM is Relocating to Mexico and closing Oshawa. (Take the Money and RUN)

Honda is reducing truck production and increasing auto production in Alliston.

Nissan has packed in their attempts to make large trucks and handed the manufacturing to Chrysler who have been able to make money on their production runs.

Chrysler has decided to build these trucks in... Mexico

Large trucks were produced because they make MONEY! They aren't going to be indemand and all manufacturers realize this and have changed production goals, targets and facilities.

The only question the CPC/LPC might want to consider is why the plant which has won numerous awards for production, quality, and productivity and having been best in North America, regularly.....

Actually, the only thing the LPC is concerned about is the CPC and the only thing the CPC is concerned about is pointing fingers at the LPC.

The people in Ottawa are toast, I don't expect Dion to save them anytime soon.

And if it isn't in Flaherties interest, and the CPCs. The die has already been cast.

This thread is really about two parties vying for power in order to implement the same policies, and Dion isn't going to get it. And certainly not with false pandering to Future Workers about to become unemployed.

[Who's Doing What?]

Talking of hypocrisy didn't Harper run on a campaign of accountability and transparency?

Don't forget INTEGRITY!

But that went out the window when Emerson jumped ship within hours of the election.

[Who's Doing What?]

Very much so. After all, what have the Tories done which even begins to compare to Adscam, or the BDBC scandal, or the massive, billion dollar waste which was the long gun registry, the APEC abuse, or the Somalia inquiry coverup? Not to mention throwing away a half billion dollars by cancelling a needed helicopter contract purely for crass political reasons.

Good grief! This "but the Liberals..." line is getting soooooooooo PATHETIC.

Stand up for cris'sakes and do what you promised! BE open, accountable, transparent and for god sakes man, show some integrity!

[Who's Doing What?]

It took 13 years for the Libs to "achieve" all this. Let's see what another 11 years of Toryism brings us.

The Tories have done quite well for only having a minority. Give them total power and in half the time the Liberals will be able to whine "But the Conservatives....."

[Kingmaker]

Oh yes, "but the liberals..." I'd like to introduce you all to a concept called "tu quoque"

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html

Tu Quoque is a very common fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. This is a classic Red Herring since whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. However, as a diversionary tactic, Tu Quoque can be very effective, since the accuser is put on the defensive, and frequently feels compelled to defend against the accusation.

It doesn't matter what the liberals did, they can both act poorly.

Additionally, the point of the opposition IS to attack the government in power. Welcome to the wonders of the westminster system people. You'd think an ellected official would realize that under this system, the ruling party rules, and the opposition attacks.

The ruling party certainly doesn't sue the opposition for not being nice!

[Argus]

Oh yes, "but the liberals..." I'd like to introduce you all to a concept called "tu quoque"

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html

It doesn't matter what the liberals did, they can both act poorly.

Uh, yeah it does, because the entire point of these political discussions is that those who attack the Tories want them replaced - by the Liberals. The accusations are merely a means to that end. So when someone who wants a corrupt party makes accusations against the Tories I think it's entirely appropriate to point out that the people he blindly supports and advocates for are far worse anyway.

It might not excuse the Tories of whatever minor wrongdoing (and so far it has been pretty minor) they may or may not be guilty of, but it points out the hypocrisy of those ranting and raving against them.

[eyeball]

Uh, yeah it does, because the entire point of these political discussions is that those who attack the Tories want them replaced - by the Liberals.

Actually, I want them both displaced.

[Fortunata]

Actually, I want them both displaced.

An eyeball after my own heart

[scribblet]

Uh, yeah it does, because the entire point of these political discussions is that those who attack the Tories want them replaced - by the Liberals. The accusations are merely a means to that end. So when someone who wants a corrupt party makes accusations against the Tories I think it's entirely appropriate to point out that the people he blindly supports and advocates for are far worse anyway.

It might not excuse the Tories of whatever minor wrongdoing (and so far it has been pretty minor) they may or may not be guilty of, but it points out the hypocrisy of those ranting and raving against them.

You make a good point... I would say that some of the posters, (not all) are party hacks - simply Liberal shills, they are here simply to smear the non Liberal parties, and score points for the Liberals. This is a large website, blogs and sites such as this are becoming more relevant all the time - the hope is that their arguments might sway some undecideds over the to the Liberals.

[Shakeyhands]

You make a good point... I would say that some of the posters, (not all) are party hacks - simply Liberal shills, they are here simply to smear the non Liberal parties, and score points for the Liberals. This is a large website, blogs and sites such as this are becoming more relevant all the time - the hope is that their arguments might sway some undecideds over the to the Liberals.

Ahhh.... did your toaster tell you that?