Smear tactics in Ottawa

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

Ya this Govt. has gone too far out of it's way to control every last detail for them to now turn around and claim ignorance on something so important.

It is why the claim that Harper knew nothing of the details made to Cadman won't stand up in testimony in court.

Shakeyhands · May 23, 2008

It is why the claim that Harper knew nothing of the details made to Cadman won't stand up in testimony in court.

And why any claims as such will be.. and I almost hate to say it.... umgetrei

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

More smear attacks by the Tories on their own.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/429205

Even a Tory source in Ontario was skeptical about the appointment.
In fact, the source warned Harper might have just handed the federal Liberals a gift in Ontario by putting in a man with such close ties to the Harris provincial government blamed – rightly or wrongly – for policies that led to the 2000 Walkerton water tragedy, among other things.

The Tory insider, a former Queen's Park colleague, scoffed at suggestions Giorno is being brought into the tightly controlled Prime Minister's Office to improve a tattered relationship with the national press corps.

"He's very bright and very analytical, but I doubt he is going to change things or improve relations with the media. I see the office being more ideologically driven with him there," said the former colleague.

Some former Ontario Tories referred to the former aide as Rasputin. That's pretty rough.

Michael Bluth · May 23, 2008

And why any claims as such will be.. and I almost hate to say it.... umgetrei

Now you are looking up Hebrew words online Shakey. :rolleyes:

It appears that when Charles asked us to stop the childish nonsense you thought another dig at Judaism was a mature way to respond...

This must be embarassing for you. You dont get a joke, go off the deep end about semitism when it clearly wasnt and yet keep trying to smear.

Hey Guyser, do you see the anti-semitism now?

Is it clear enough for ya now?

Edited May 23, 2008 by Michael Bluth

margrace · May 23, 2008

More smear attacks by the Tories on their own.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/429205

Some former Ontario Tories referred to the former aide as Rasputin. That's pretty rough.

Some Harrisites now in Ottawa, Jim Flaherty, John Baird, Tony Clement, Helena Guergis

BubberMiley · May 23, 2008

Some Harrisites now in Ottawa, Jim Flaherty, John Baird, Tony Clement, Helena Guergis

Which isn't going to do much to make any big gains in Ontario. So that leaves Quebec, which is tenuous at best. And considering the poor relationship the government has with the media in general, they aren't going to get any breaks come election time. All they have left is smears. Mention Israel, they'll call you an anti-semite. Mention Afghanistan, they'll say you sympathize with the Taliban. It's the sign of a desperate government that, once again, I believe is going to have a very hard time holding onto its minority.

It's amazing that, with such an incompetent leader as Dion, the Tories still have a very good shot at snatching defeat from the wide open jaws of victory.

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

And why any claims as such will be.. and I almost hate to say it.... umgetrei

Very true.

By the way, a happy Lag BaOmer to all out there today. Hope people enjoy it with festive outings.

Lag BaOmer's imperative is to love and respect one's fellow man. May 23 is the anniversary of when a plagued ended that killed those that did not act respectfully to one another.

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

All they have left is smears. Mention Israel, they'll call you an anti-semite. Mention Afghanistan, they'll say you sympathize with the Taliban. It's the sign of a desperate government that, once again, I believe is going to have a very hard time holding onto its minority.

Hard to see how a Tory hardliner is going to stop the present strategy.

Seems to me that even some Conservatives have their doubts about the man they call Rasputin.

It's amazing that, with such an incompetent leader as Dion, the Tories still have a very good shot at snatching defeat from the wide open jaws of victory.

Latest Nanos poll has the Liberals leading by a point. A statistical tie but further evidence that Harper is not close to a majority.

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

Some Harrisites now in Ottawa, Jim Flaherty, John Baird, Tony Clement, Helena Guergis

Some of them among the mouthiest in terms of smears and nastiness.

Michael Bluth · May 23, 2008

By the way, a happy Lag BaOmer to all out there today. Hope people enjoy it with festive outings.

Thank you.

Latest Nanos poll has the Liberals leading by a point. A statistical tie but further evidence that Harper is not close to a majority.

The Conservatives had a strong fall and a weak spring. It has been a wash. So they are stuck at where they were during the election.

Look at Guy Giorno to bring a significant change to the PMO. Relations with the civil service will improve. The distrust and secrecy of the Brodie days will slowly ebb away as well.

However it came about, this is the single best thing Harper has done to move towards a majority in the past year.

guyser · May 23, 2008

Hey Guyser, do you see the anti-semitism now?
Is it clear enough for ya now?

No I dont.

There wasnt any, much to your chagrin. You just didnt get the joke, then , later and again now. But hey, keep on being an embarassment to yourself.

Smear tactics in a smear tactics thread. Well done RB !

Michael Bluth · May 23, 2008

No I dont.
There wasnt any, much to your chagrin. You just didnt get the joke, then , later and again now. But hey, keep on being an embarassment to yourself.

Smear tactics in a smear tactics thread.

Hmmm, dobbin and shakey have given up defending the indefensible.

Charles asked people to stop with the personal attacks.

Why do you insist on caring on this lonely, bigotted and disrespectful crusade?

madmax · May 23, 2008

Look at Guy Giorno to bring a significant change to the PMO. Relations with the civil service will improve. The distrust and secrecy of the Brodie days will slowly ebb away as well.
However it came about, this is the single best thing Harper has done to move towards a majority in the past year.

Why will this be the single best thing? I don't understand the significance of the move.

Wild Bill · May 23, 2008

Which isn't going to do much to make any big gains in Ontario.

Are you implying BM that having so many Harris people in Harper's PMO means that Ontario will mostly vote against them?

If so, I don't quite understand. Harris had TWO thumpin' big back-to-back majorities. SOMEBODY had to like him! After he retired it was obvious that not nearly as many folks were impressed with Ernie Eves.

Whatever. For someone to imply that there is no support for Harris' political principles argues with the reality of what happened. The left believe it but they believed it before Harris blew them out of Queen's Park.

If I were a Dalton supporter I wouldn't get too smug. He won last time 'cuz John Tory blew it, not because he had impressed the majority of voters. If he were up against a star candidate like Harris I don't think he would have an easy time of it. If the provincial Tories stop trying to fight the liberals for the centre left and just be conservatives Dalton might end up very, very sorry.

Michael Bluth · May 23, 2008

Why will this be the single best thing? I don't understand the significance of the move.

A few things have been holding Harper back from hitting majority standing in the polls.

The secrecy in the PMO.

Poor relations with the civil service.

Not 'getting' Ontario enough for a breakthrough in that vote-rich province.

Secrecy is common for parties having spent a long time in opposition.

Giorno has the experience of shepherding the Ontario PCs from the opposition mindset to the governing mindset. He also successful built bridges to the senior civil service to work with the government.

Finally, Brodie spent a long time in Calgary (MA, PhD etc...) It has been argued that he never really 'got' Ontario. Tough to make that claim with Giorno.

Harper has shown real maturity in this move.

There is a very wise saying 'the people who get you to power aren't the ones to keep you in power.' Perhaps Harper didn't really get this before, but Giorno is a breathe of fresh air who will make a big difference in the PMO.

Shakeyhands · May 23, 2008

Are you implying BM that having so many Harris people in Harper's PMO means that Ontario will mostly vote against them?
If so, I don't quite understand. Harris had TWO thumpin' big back-to-back majorities. SOMEBODY had to like him! After he retired it was obvious that not nearly as many folks were impressed with Ernie Eves.

Whatever. For someone to imply that there is no support for Harris' political principles argues with the reality of what happened. The left believe it but they believed it before Harris blew them out of Queen's Park.

If I were a Dalton supporter I wouldn't get too smug. He won last time 'cuz John Tory blew it, not because he had impressed the majority of voters. If he were up against a star candidate like Harris I don't think he would have an easy time of it. If the provincial Tories stop trying to fight the liberals for the centre left and just be conservatives Dalton might end up very, very sorry.

Harris got while gettin' was good, Eve's loss had everything to do with Harris and the PC's rather than anyshortcoming Eve's may have had. Had Harris run for a third time, he'd have been decimated.

I tend to agree with you on the Tory debacle, though I don't think McGuinty ran that bad of a campaign nor a bad gov't, though I have conservative friends that argue that vehemently.

Wild Bill · May 23, 2008

Harris got while gettin' was good, Eve's loss had everything to do with Harris and the PC's rather than anyshortcoming Eve's may have had. Had Harris run for a third time, he'd have been decimated.
I tend to agree with you on the Tory debacle, though I don't think McGuinty ran that bad of a campaign nor a bad gov't, though I have conservative friends that argue that vehemently.

Well, if it were true that Harris' time had simply passed and all those folks who had voted for him had changed their minds and become Liberals, then perhaps you're right.

I'm curious however as to why Dalton hasn't then gotten majority wins to compare with what Harris had gotten?

I think it's quite possible that while the public sector was being quite vocal against his Tories the rest of us weren't that unhappy. Harris was so successful because he appeared to do what he said and be willing to take a firm stand, instead of holding a finger to the wind like the usual politician.

How can someone make the argument that the Harris style of conservatism is unpopular to the majority when we so rarely get offered the choice? Usually we get the two major parties fighting for the middle-left. Our choices tend to be red, pink or rose.

When Harris retired Eves had none of the reputation of Harris. He seemed like just another old guy run by backroom boys who felt that the road to success was by appealing to the widest and lowest common denominator. No wonder he lost! That wasn't an campaign fought on political philosophy. It was an exercise in boredom!

The Ontario Tories have always had an internal struggle between the blue and red sides of their caucus. So far the only time they've been successful in recent memory has been when they are blue. Miller lost, Eves lost and Tory has lost.

Why not? Why vote for a red Tory? We've got a whole party of red guys called the Liberals!

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that in the absence of clear choices who can tell?

jdobbin · May 23, 2008

Why will this be the single best thing? I don't understand the significance of the move.

One person is not likely to make a big difference as even some Tories admitted in the Hills Times story.

Michael Bluth · May 23, 2008

One person is not likely to make a big difference as even some Tories admitted in the Hills Times story.

Ignoring the mountains of evidence to the contrary and unsubstantiated 'evidence' of what Tories are admitting.

Well, I guess the depth of the replies prove who is more likely to be correct.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Michael Bluth

madmax · May 23, 2008

A few things have been holding Harper back from hitting majority standing in the polls.
The secrecy in the PMO.

Poor relations with the civil service.

Not 'getting' Ontario enough for a breakthrough in that vote-rich province.

Secrecy is common for parties having spent a long time in opposition.

Giorno has the experience of shepherding the Ontario PCs from the opposition mindset to the governing mindset. He also successful built bridges to the senior civil service to work with the government.

Finally, Brodie spent a long time in Calgary (MA, PhD etc...) It has been argued that he never really 'got' Ontario. Tough to make that claim with Giorno.

Harper has shown real maturity in this move.

There is a very wise saying 'the people who get you to power aren't the ones to keep you in power.' Perhaps Harper didn't really get this before, but Giorno is a breathe of fresh air who will make a big difference in the PMO.

Thanks for the commenting to my question.

buffycat · May 23, 2008

It's astonishing how so many things on this forum get reduced to partisan mud slinging and insults.

Sorta like the article posted - which sadly resulted in very little comment on the substance.

*sigh*

Guess that's how it is though - they get everyone so divided into their little niches, foster a culture of 'us vs. them' and then drive it home in such a childish manner.

Pathetic.

No wonder things are in a mess. Name calling and schoolyard antics. How can anyone take anything seriously? It is not just the 'Libs', not just the 'Tories', not just the 'Dippers' - IT"S ALL OF THEM.

But, hey - they sure have lots of folks fooled.

This thread is testament to that.

Who's Doing What? · May 24, 2008

Hmmm, dobbin and shakey have given up defending the indefensible.
Charles asked people to stop with the personal attacks.

Why do you insist on caring on this lonely, bigotted and disrespectful crusade?

There was nothing to defend and yet you made several slanderous charges against more than one other poster.

Shakeyhands · May 24, 2008

There was nothing to defend and yet you made several slanderous charges against more than one other poster.

They would be libelous as they were written, not spoken.

WDW, who cares? Its typical of exactly what this thread is about. It's best to ignore and move on from such ridiculous accusations that are based on absolutely nothing other than not having anything else to back ones self up with.

Edited May 24, 2008 by Shakeyhands

Michael Bluth · May 24, 2008

WDW, who cares? Its typical of exactly what this thread is about. It's best to ignore and move on from such ridiculous accusations that are based on absolutely nothing other than not having anything else to back ones self up with.

You had given up defending the indefensible.

It appears to be obstinance that you allow it to continue and used WDW?'s unhealthy obsession as an excuse to do so.

I will always defend Judaism and Israel from closeted bigotry and will never apologized for doing so.

BubberMiley · May 24, 2008

You had given up defending the indefensible.

Indefensible only in that it didn't need defending. Personally, I would feel foolish bothering to debate with people whose miscomprehension is either a deliberate attempt to be frustrating or is derived from an intellectual challenge. Nonetheless, it does provide an exellent case study of how conservatives believe the electorate has a very low level of understanding of the overall debate, and that you can just throw around completely baseless smears in the hopes they will stick. I suppose it's an approach that has had some electoral success in the past, but I think people are starting to catch on.